Hearts of Iron III Catch-All

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Ok so I just bought it. We need to get a multiplayer game going, who has it =)?

You might want to ask in the Wargamer's Corner thread, that's where we hang out. I've got it, but I'm not yet confident in the system. Still using AI for just about everything and watching it like a hawk, to learn strategies as well as to see how well it does. The economic system looks like it can be run on a knife's edge, for one thing.

When 1.2 comes out ill be interested in a big mp game, it already runs pretty smooth. Oh and multra you can do co-op with a single country apparently as well!

I've been having a good time with this over the past week. Pretty much been stomping around in the Germany '36 scenario and familiarizing myself with things. The AI (and other things) at this point are pretty severely broken in many areas, so sadly there's been relatively little challenge. On top of that, I've gotten a CTD on the same day 4 times so far, so its looking like that file is most likely toast.

As Jam said, waiting for the 1.2 patch seems like the prudent thing to do before really throwing yourself into a serious game. I haven't attempted multiplayer for a Paradox game yet, but nevertheless I'd be very interested in some type of GWJ game. Sounds like Jam might have to give all of us some lessons first though

I picked up HoI3 over the Steam sale a few weeks ago and gave it a try one weekend. I had a lot of fun with it and started up this post of impressions, now that it’s on sale again (GamersGate for $12) I should probably post what I have.

There are a lot of little differences between HoI3 and HoI2.

The first difference that you see when you open up the game is that there are a lot more provinces. This was a welcome addition, I haven't gotten into much ground warfare yet (or too much warfare in general) but I think it will make it more challenging and satisfying to carry out the encirclements and Blitzkrieg's that characterize WWII so well.

The biggest change so far is in the research. First of all, the old cap of (I think) 5 research projects going at a time is gone. I was glad to see this go as it appeared to be a very artificial restriction. Now, in addition to the Industrial Capacity that is managed between Upgrades, Reinforcements, Construction, and Civil Goods, you have Leadership which is used to produce Spies, Officers, Diplomatic Influence, and Research. As the US I have a bit more than 36 Leadership right now, and have 33 research projects going, as well as a small amount of development in the other areas. My spies tell me that Germany has around 45 Leadership, to which I can only say "Holy Smokes." There is a research track that will give you modest Leadership gains, but it is primarily produced in some provinces. Unlike Industrial Capacity you can't build up more Universities or Labs, but I presume that capturing enemy Provinces would give you access to their Leadership. That would explain why Germany's was so high.

There are several other changes to the research model, expanding the sorts of choices that you can make. Instead of researching unit types individually you research different parts of the units. For example there are four separate research categories for Light Armor: Armor, Reliability, Engine, and Gun. In most cases you'll want to keep them all going pretty uniformly, but if you don't enough research capacity for that you can prioritize in the areas most important to you. In addition, some of the research categories have downsides, for example, engine research makes you more vulnerable, as you have larger gas tanks and whatnot. Armor and Gun research makes you slower as you carry heavier equipment. A tank with level 4 across the board will be better in all aspects then a tank with level 3 across the board, but there could be times when you could build more specialized units. Say Self-Propelled artillery with a level 1 engine, or an armored car brigade with obsolete armor and weapons that increases its speed significantly.

In addition, the old "gearing up" system which made it more efficient to serialize your production has been overhauled and combined with a similar research mechanic. I never really like the old way as much, because if you ordered up 4 sets of submarines, then decided to build another 2 sets after those were finished, those two submarines were just as slow to build as ever. Ordering up long strings of units was also impractical when you were constantly improving your arsenal. After a year or two the new units would need extensive renovations which cut into any gains you may have made.

Now your country has a bank of both theoretical and practical knowledge in a variety of fields. Practical knowledge is gained by building and fighting with your units, theoretical knowledge is gained through research (there are a couple exceptions). The Practical knowledge affiliated with a unit will not only go up with use, but that increase makes production more efficient. Over time the knowledge you haven't been using starts to decay. A similar system is at work for the research categories. Each of them has a number of knowledge rankings that they require, and one that is increased when the research is completed.

I am guessing that this will lead to some interesting dynamics in the game. Countries that are not yet involved in the fighting will lag behind in their practical knowledge, slowing their research in many areas. It also further highlights the difficulties in breaking into new research areas rather than refining existing technology. Research into jet engines is based on two types of knowledge, Practical Jet Engine Tech and Theoretical Jet Engine Tech. Obviously I can’t have any practical knowledge until I first develop a working model, and at the beginning of the research cycle I don’t have any theoretical knowledge either. This puts stiff penalties on an already expensive tech. So before I tried to actually design a jet engine I assigned a team to study the theory of jet engines for several years. Sure that means that it will take 5 years overall to have the first jet engine operational instead of three years (three years of prep work lowered the research time around a year) but now I will go into researching the second round of improvements with 5 theoretical knowledge instead of 1, and so on, that’s sure to be worthwhile right? Of course I could have just researched the engine for three years off the bat and started building jet planes faster. Maybe the 2 years of building up practical knowledge would have been better. I have no idea, but I like that HoI3 is letting me make these choices.

There are several other differences, but I think I’ll leave it here for now.

Good writeup Yonder. I've just been distracted by so many other good games that this is on the pile now. Installed and waiting.

Anyone else playing King Arthur? Gonna make a push on that this week, I think. Try to get past the tutorial and into the game itself.

Well, with the recent Steam sale I would imagine that there will be a few more people (myself included) picking this game up.

Cloud save/syncing games
HOI3 is convenient in the sense that it has a dedicated "save games" folder. If you bought it via Steam, the path is: E:\Steam\steamapps\common\hearts of iron 3\save games If you didn't I would assume it's under the Program Files directory.

Being able to sync games over multiple computers can be helpful, especially since this is a pretty laptop-friendly game. I would like to be able to pick up my games from computer to computer, so I can use two pieces of software (or one piece and some command line action, which it what I would do in the situations before discovering Winbolic).

Winbolic Link
Dropbox

Fun fact: if you own multiple computers, or just a desktop and a laptop, you should already own Dropbox. Dropbox puts a folder in your Documents directory called "My Dropbox". Any file saved into that folder is synced to Dropbox, and then synced on all the other computers in which you've installed Dropbox. Swank.

Now combine this with the magic of symbolic links, which are just redirects for folders. If I put a symbolic link in a directory, it's transparent to the operating system - windows goes to look for a folder in that directory and instead can be redirected anywhere I want... like a Dropbox folder.

So, get your Dropbox accounts set up on your computers and create a "Game Saves" directory. I also like to put in another specific directory called "HOI3". COPY or CUT your "save game" folder from the HOI3 directory and put it into your Dropbox directory. Delete the HOI3 directory in your Steam/Program Files folder if it still exists.

Open Winbolic. On the left, navigate to the Steam/Program Files HOI3 directory. For link, put in "save games" - the spelling is important. On the right, navigate to the folder you created for your HOI3 Dropbox directory. Click "Create NFTS Junction" - and you're done! You'll have to do this on both machines, but it's worth it. Now, when I play on my desktop and save my game, it will be saved everywhere. I can take my laptop with me to work or school or wherever and pick up right where I left off.

The best part is that this obviously works with any game that has a dedicated "game save" folder. I also have Puzzle Quest set up this way.

Documentation
Obviously you don't get ze papers when you download the game from Steam or Gamer's Gate, so it's worth registering at the Paradox Interactive Forums. Once you have an account, you need to register your game's serial number. With Steam, you can right-click on the game in your Library and select "View CD Game Key". Alternatively, Steam will try and tell it to you every five seconds when you play.

Once you've registered, you can get access to the documentation, a quick start guide, and a strategy guide. Since I've spent an hour with the game only playing the demo and still have no clue as to what the f*ck is going on, I highly recommend everything you can read.

Windowed Mode
If you want to be able to read a guide/wiki/site while playing, you can enable windowed mode by editing a text file. The game is fullscreen by default and the option is not in the main menu. Alt-tabbing is slow when full screen. To enable windowed mode, edit the "settings.txt" file and change the value for "fullscreen" from "no" to "yes" and change the screen resolution to your preferred setting.

You are now ready to micromanage to your heart's content.

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As an aside, I am looking forward to "Excel: WWII Version". The learning curve seems steep, but I've read it's very rewarding and deep gameplay.

I just picked this up through the Steam sale. Damnit -- stupid Valve bringing their insidious sales to the Mac!

At any rate, I'm more than intimidated, but I ended up getting it because of the discussion in a recent Idle Thumbs podcast. Here's hoping I can find some time to make heads or tails of it...

By the way -- I assume the writing in the 'tutorials' is intentionally hilarious. It's been a long time since I had a game walk me through tutorials with *written* dialog. Takes me back to the 90s.

I tried to play this a little while ago and found it REALLY hard to get into.

Did I just not give it enough time or is it pretty complex.

Subscribing.

Thanks for the tips Micheal

Kier wrote:

I tried to play this a little while ago and found it REALLY hard to get into.

Did I just not give it enough time or is it pretty complex.

It's complex, for sure.

Kier wrote:

I tried to play this a little while ago and found it REALLY hard to get into.

Did I just not give it enough time or is it pretty complex.

It is definitely a very complex game. It's definitely a good idea to sit down with the tutorial and the large, very nicely done manual (included on Steam).

I think that with systems as huge as HOI, it's important to be able to play short scenarios that focus on certain things, or to play as, say Canada until you figure things out.

wordsmythe wrote:

I think that with systems as huge as HOI, it's important to be able to play short scenarios that focus on certain things, or to play as, say Canada until you figure things out.

That was going to be my question -- what is the best way to get into this game? Playing as Germany or the US out of the box sounds hard, in that there are so many possibilities (and foes). Is Canada a good option, then? Any other countries or modes you would recommend?

firesloth wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:

I think that with systems as huge as HOI, it's important to be able to play short scenarios that focus on certain things, or to play as, say Canada until you figure things out.

That was going to be my question -- what is the best way to get into this game? Playing as Germany or the US out of the box sounds hard, in that there are so many possibilities (and foes). Is Canada a good option, then? Any other countries or modes you would recommend?

Canada is a reasonably good option because there is less pressure on them. Russia would probably be a really good choice as well. Only one front, and minimal sea power to worry about (even if you get drawn into a war with Japan you'd probably be able to mostly ignore them.

Italy would probably be a pretty good choice too, once again minimal sea forces and a fairly contained front.

There's a wiki that uses China as a good first game country. You have to repel Japan early, but otherwise have a pretty low pressure existence.

Also, if you're into HOI it's worth mentioning that today's daily deal is the same discount for Europa universalis.

Michael wrote:

There's a wiki that uses China as a good first game country. You have to repel Japan early, but otherwise

Piece of cake!

Oh.

I'll give it another try then.

I really liked EUIII once I got into it so it's probably worth it.

firesloth wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:

I think that with systems as huge as HOI, it's important to be able to play short scenarios that focus on certain things, or to play as, say Canada until you figure things out.

That was going to be my question -- what is the best way to get into this game? Playing as Germany or the US out of the box sounds hard, in that there are so many possibilities (and foes). Is Canada a good option, then? Any other countries or modes you would recommend?

I'd recommend a smaller landlocked country - less provinces, no navy, less things to manage. My first game was Switzerland - you basically watch the war unfold around you. Then I'd move to bigger countries.

Russia is often cited as a good first "real" country, because it has no navy to speak of and you can practice ground combat in Finland.

wanderingtaoist wrote:
firesloth wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:

I think that with systems as huge as HOI, it's important to be able to play short scenarios that focus on certain things, or to play as, say Canada until you figure things out.

That was going to be my question -- what is the best way to get into this game? Playing as Germany or the US out of the box sounds hard, in that there are so many possibilities (and foes). Is Canada a good option, then? Any other countries or modes you would recommend?

I'd recommend a smaller landlocked country - less provinces, no navy, less things to manage. My first game was Switzerland - you basically watch the war unfold around you. Then I'd move to bigger countries.

Some folks might be surprised how little Canada has going on, and, as a dominion in the British Commonwealth, you are constantly getting freebies from other commonwealth nations. The real trick is to use the time of the game to bring Canada from underdeveloped wilderness to the marginal power it was by the end of the war. In short: Playing as Canada is an exercise in developing your nation largely sans combat.

I started playing as Brazil, just to figure out how the diplomacy/production/intelligence/research/politics systems worked in a stress-free environment. Also, there's a console command that turns off the FOW; I used that to see some combat to try and get a feel for that without having to actually do any (I forget the command, but it's out there in the Intertubes somewhere).
Next I played as Canada; there's more going on but you really don't have to worry about getting invaded or anything so it's still pretty stress free. Plus you don't have too many units to manage so I used this game to try and figure that aspect out.
I also played as the USA, but I had the AI do everything but research. This game I just wanted to see how that worked without being as constrained as in my other games (big difference between USA and Brazil in terms of research ability by the way )
I just started a game as Spain, playing in 1936. Obviously, there will be combat very early on so I plan on focusing in on that for this game. Not sure what happens if the Nationalists win the Spanish Civil War.

This game is both incredible and incredibly frustrating, to a degree beyond the other Paradox games I've played (EU series mostly + Vicky). The diplomatic/military AI is very uneven and the scripting seems to be busted for certain cases. For example, in both my Brazil and my USA games, Germany never attacked Russia and Japan got pushed out of China. Germany, after taking over Poland, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, France, and Spain (in one game, they attacked Italy in the other), then decided it had had enough and sat there there rest of the game. The UK never did anything and Germany never attacked cross-channel. It was odd that this would happen in 2 games out of 3. The USA has never joined the Allies in my 3 games, as far as I played them (the USa game was 1936-1944, Brazil was 36-43, Canada was 36-48) and never entered the war.

The production AI is uneven as well. Mostly competent but occasionally insane. For instance, in my USA game the production AI decided to build a bunch of carriers, nine I think. But without building the air groups. So when production was done, there were nine carriers with no planes. Not real useful. Almost as useful as the line of radar stations that were built across the center of the US; perhaps the AI was expecting Red Dawn or something.

I could go on and on about this. When it works, this is like nothing else I've ever played. When it doesn't it makes me frustrated because I've seen how good it can be.

It sounds like I am dumping all over this game, and I guess I am. But I am still playing it quite a bit. If the subject matter appeals to you, you should pick it up especially for the insanely low prices that this has been going for lately.

I had an idea for my first game to try an take a neutral foreign nation like brazil or south africa and turn it into a trading power through development and diplomacy with the real powers. (Really, I wanted to see how much I could support the Axis without getting pulled into the war.)

But I'm thinking that it might be easier to try something simillar with Canada, since it already has strong diplomatic ties to the allies, and that would let me focus on just the ecconomy and not have to learn the diplomacy system just yet.

I'll share my big mistake with my first USA game here so that people can learn from it. One of the modifiers of each country is how comfortable with the idea of going to war (unfortunately I can't remember what it's called). There are a few things that this stat governs, but the big one is the sort of edicts you can put into play in your diplomatic screens. For example you can go into increased amounts of mobilization prior to being involved in war.

As the game goes on this stat rises by itself due to scripted events and the outbreak of war abroad, but not fast enough. Because of that I wasn't able to increase my military production substantially until I got drawn into the war anyways.

What I discovered too late was that from the espionage screen you can embark on missions domestically and abroad. That whole time I could have been issuing propaganda to lower the isolationism of my population and allow me to mobilize earlier.

Nightmare, are you running with Semper Fi? I hear that fixes a lot of issues...

Nightmare wrote:

I just started a game as Spain, playing in 1936. Obviously, there will be combat very early on so I plan on focusing in on that for this game. Not sure what happens if the Nationalists win the Spanish Civil War.

I know it's a complicated war with a lot of nuances, but I'd imagine that things play out a bit like they did historically if the nationalists win. You know, since they did and all.

This game is both incredible and incredibly frustrating, to a degree beyond the other Paradox games I've played (EU series mostly + Vicky). The diplomatic/military AI is very uneven and the scripting seems to be busted for certain cases. For example, in both my Brazil and my USA games, Germany never attacked Russia and Japan got pushed out of China. Germany, after taking over Poland, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, France, and Spain (in one game, they attacked Italy in the other), then decided it had had enough and sat there there rest of the game. The UK never did anything and Germany never attacked cross-channel. It was odd that this would happen in 2 games out of 3. The USA has never joined the Allies in my 3 games, as far as I played them (the USa game was 1936-1944, Brazil was 36-43, Canada was 36-48) and never entered the war.

Not sure about the others, but these scenarios make sense. It's commonly understood that attacking Russia is a bad idea (see also: Napoleon), and the appeasement tactics of the Allies (and US isolationism) ended in part because the Axis powers forced the issue. If Germany had been content to only expand into Slavic and Germanic regions, they might have gotten away with it (at least for considerably longer).

Robear wrote:

Nightmare, are you running with Semper Fi? I hear that fixes a lot of issues...

Yeah, I picked that up after my first two games, it seems to have helped some weird decisions of the AI but, as seems to be the case with Paradox games, it may have added weirdness to other areas.

After reading my post, I realize that may have come off a little bit harsher than I intended. First, I have a little over three "real" games under my belt plus some futzing around, so my opinion is far from definitive (some might even say it is not all that informed; I would not disagree). Second, this *is* a sort of history sim/sand box game so a-historical things are kind of what I signed up for. However it is disappointing to see the game reach some sort of equilibrium point from whence it does not seem to want to get out of. No Barbarossa in one game out of four would be interesting. So far though, this is 2 for 3. Just seems like something is broken, since I am pretty sure I read somewhere that Barbarossa is a scripted event that occurs when certain criteria are met.

wordsmythe wrote:
Nightmare wrote:

I just started a game as Spain, playing in 1936. Obviously, there will be combat very early on so I plan on focusing in on that for this game. Not sure what happens if the Nationalists win the Spanish Civil War.

I know it's a complicated war with a lot of nuances, but I'd imagine that things play out a bit like they did historically if the nationalists win. You know, since they did and all.

I suppose I meant what happens to me, since I am Republican Spain, the loser. I guess just a change in Head of State or something. The game does seem to treat Republican Spain and Nationalist Spain as two different countries though. And, yes, I know who won the Spanish Civil War. Jerk

wordsmythe wrote:
Nightmare wrote:

This game is both incredible and incredibly frustrating, to a degree beyond the other Paradox games I've played (EU series mostly + Vicky). The diplomatic/military AI is very uneven and the scripting seems to be busted for certain cases. For example, in both my Brazil and my USA games, Germany never attacked Russia and Japan got pushed out of China. Germany, after taking over Poland, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, France, and Spain (in one game, they attacked Italy in the other), then decided it had had enough and sat there there rest of the game. The UK never did anything and Germany never attacked cross-channel. It was odd that this would happen in 2 games out of 3. The USA has never joined the Allies in my 3 games, as far as I played them (the USa game was 1936-1944, Brazil was 36-43, Canada was 36-48) and never entered the war.

Not sure about the others, but these scenarios make sense. It's commonly understood that attacking Russia is a bad idea (see also: Napoleon), and the appeasement tactics of the Allies (and US isolationism) ended in part because the Axis powers forced the issue. If Germany had been content to only expand into Slavic and Germanic regions, they might have gotten away with it (at least for considerably longer).

I could buy that if the Ansclhuss occurred, the partitioning of Czechoslovakia, and the invasions of Poland and Denmark happened and then Germany stopped and consolidated. But to then invade Norway and the Low Countries/France as well as Spain (or Italy)? And also not finish the job by going after the UK? In neither of these examples does the USSR and Germany go to war even.

It seems like, in these games I've played, that, once at war, the AI's aggressiveness just kind of peters out. There may be good sound reasons for this inside the game engine but it does look puzzling when viewed externally.

I think finally with the release of the first patch for semper fi the game is going to be playable running DiDays Iron Cross Mod which will have a playable version with the appropriate patch level probably a week after the patches official release.

Very long sigh.

I just got the vanilla version last week. Only poked around a little bit so far.

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