
Found it! A couple of archers wandered back to the encampment during the night, but the next morning I did another sweep and found the sword wedged beside a log further up the hillside. Ultimately not worth it, but the sense of satisfaction was real.
Hilariously 20 steps further down the path was an ambush. Ran away from that one.
During story beats I am finding that my intimidate options appear to have the most chance for success. Not sure how I feel about that, but I am investigating a gruesome murder. I could see getting heated at the casual obstructions my inquiries are running into. Damn peasants! It's all "thank you for taking an interest, Sir Knight!" And then "I don't know nuffin!"
I'm mostly with you on the combat side of things. Lockpicking? I think both versions of it can go to hell. I have a bit of a tremor since I was a child - no major condition, it's just always been there - and it really messes with this particular system.
Righto on the potion brewing system, as well.
I haven't touched the game in a few days; felt like I needed to let it simmer for a while. May get back to it next week. I'll update when I can.
I'm having a hard time getting properly motivated in this game. It's pretty, there's stuff in there I'm having fun with. I bought a new horse!
I need to practice combat. I need to practice archery. I need to collect ingredients for alchemy. I need to brew potions. I need to train stealth. I need to maintain my gear and health. I need to build my reputation. I need to go back to the mill for my next date... No not now, it's raining. I need to figure out how the grindstones work. I need to remember to wander I to an armorer shop because my chest plate has been broken too far for me to patch. Did I check if I have food before riding out? Did I read ally books already? Are there visual tells on where the arrow will go because I swear there is a randomness to it I haven't sussed out yet. Am I using the wrong arrows? Why are there 10 different kinds? Will it ever not be poaching?
After finishing Indy on Friday, I finally got back into KC:D since my initial start last summer. And my save was immediately before a 2-on-3 battle with some bad guys as part of the main quest, so I had to quickly remember how to fight. Thankfully it only took one reset before I got back into the swing of things, and we took them all down - and from there, I've been running around doing all sorts of quests and having a grand time. I also just looked briefly at a guide to see how far along the main quest line I am: almost halfway, so plenty more to go, and lots of things to do, besides. I'm still using the starter horse, but I just did a main quest mission that involved riding a much nicer one, so now I have horse envy.
Spoiler:Will it ever not be poaching?
Do the quest chain starting with "Hare Hunt" from Nicholas the master huntsman at Talmberg. You won't be poaching from the master huntsman if you ARE the master huntsman.
Out of curiosity, are you playing M&K or with a controller? Combat has been tough but intuitive for me on controller - wondering if M&K has its own challenge?
I thought I had been getting better at archery, but after burning through nearly 100 arrows to take down 5 bandits at medium range I decided that maybe I need to figure out why the aim is so unpredictable.
My monitor has an option to put a crosshair in the center of the screen.
Mystery solved.
The arrow flies true to the center (with an arc, obviously) but the entire view bobs and weaves like a drunken sailor. I'm playing on an ultra wide display so it was hard to tell just how much the view moves while lining up a target.
Last night I was tasked with retrieving a thing that had mysteriously gone missing. Of course it was bandits in the woods, at dusk, but thankfully only two of them. My first three attempts went miserably, at which point I realized that I had recently upgraded from a short sword to a long sword, which behaves differently and cannot be used with the two attack combos I had previously learned. Fourth time was the charm - I shot the bow-wielding bandit twice before closing and stabbing him, and then I dueled the more heavily-armored one to death.
And then this morning I realized I probably should have just waited until night, then sneak into their camp and assassinate them in their sleep, with the stealth perk I had recently picked up. Would’ve been much simpler.
I started playing KCD last week, but only managed my first decent play-session last night. I've made it past the (surprisingly long) prologue, and I'm at the point where I'm choosing my own missions.
My early thoughts?
Jank
I initially thought the game was janky. I've revised my opinion. Rather, the game is strangely demanding of precision in some places, and glorious unconcerned by it in others. Flower-picking is an example. You can't pick a flower until a name-label appears. However, that label only seems to appear if you're at precisely the right distance from the flower, and viewing it from precisely the right angle... And two flowers right next to each other might require different angles.
Systems
There are so many systems in this game that its basically an immersive sim. Food rots. Weather changes. Random bandit encounters happen. You have to haggle... even if you don't really want to. It's all a bit overwhelming, in part because of the way that these systems operate and the way they are tutorialised.
I've won a couple of one-on-one sword fights, but I don't really know what I'm doing. I don't know when or why I should chose a particular angle for my attacking stroke, rather than the opposite angle. I don't know when I should jab rather than slash. What would really help here would be a wooden or straw practice dummy...
And I had to do a Google search to understand how the sliders for haggling work. (It appears that I should always try to move them down a bit in order to get a slightly better deal).
User Interface
There are a lot of tabs in the UI. Entirely comfortable for those on PC using mouse & keyboard; horribly fiddly for those of us stuck with controllers. I'm forever hitting the wrong tabs, as I continually confuse R1 and R2.
Lock-picking
TLDR? Lock-picking in games can always go eff itself!
But my more considered view is that it - here - it makes sense mechanically. Lift and hold tumblers with one hand. Turn barrel with other hand. While continuing to lift and hold the tumblers. But it's really fiddly doing that using analogue sticks.
Also, as the player, I don't feel I understand whether I' finding if difficult because (a) I'm new to the mechanic, (b) Henry is a novice, and the game has set the responsiveness of the analogue sticks to reflect this, or (c) it's just a difficult mechanic... or (d) all of the above. (I feel exactly the same about combat. I'm not sure if it's me, Henry or the tools I've been given.)
It looks like locking-picking will get easier as Henry gets more skilled. I wonder whether it should be player-focussed with it becoming more difficult as I get more skilled.
One final thought: there are an awful lot of expensive locks lying around in middle-ages central Europe. People who don't appear to have a pot to p*** in, have expensive strongboxes in their living rooms.
Story
The story is really good. And I've been pleasantly surprised by how emotionally affecting it is, even in this early stages. I won't spoil anything, but the set-up really has me rooting for Henry. I really want to him to succeed.
Red Dead Redemption 2
Once the credits rolled after the tutorial, it felt to me like the visual tone of the game brightened as the game opened up. And the first thing I thought of was RDR2 (which was released in the same year). Obviously, RDR2 has a much bigger budget, and this shows on screen. And obviously, the Rockstar game is in 3rd, not 1st person. But KCD gave me strong Red Dead vibes. (Not enough wildlife though.)
I started playing KCD last week, but only managed my first decent play-session last night. I've made it past the (surprisingly long) prologue, and I'm at the point where I'm choosing my own missions.
Lock-picking
TLDR? Lock-picking in games can always go eff itself!But my more considered view is that it - here - it makes sense mechanically. Lift and hold tumblers with one hand. Turn barrel with other hand. While continuing to lift and hold the tumblers. But it's really fiddly doing that using analogue sticks.
Also, as the player, I don't feel I understand whether I' finding if difficult because (a) I'm new to the mechanic, (b) Henry is a novice, and the game has set the responsiveness of the analogue sticks to reflect this, or (c) it's just a difficult mechanic... or (d) all of the above. (I feel exactly the same about combat. I'm not sure if it's me, Henry or the tools I've been given.)
It looks like locking-picking will get easier as Henry gets more skilled. I wonder whether it should be player-focussed with it becoming more difficult as I get more skilled.
One final thought: there are an awful lot of expensive locks lying around in middle-ages central Europe. People who don't appear to have a pot to p*** in, have expensive strongboxes in their living rooms.
I definitely struggled with lockpicking A LOT when I started, however, there are two important things to know about it that either the game doesn't tell you or I ignored when it did:
The closer the sweet spot is to the center of the tumbler, the easier the lock is to pick.
The sweet spot is random for each session. That means if you pull up the lock picking screen and the sweetspot is way out on the outer edge of the tumbler, than escape out and start over. Keep going until you get the sweetspot as close as possible to the center.
I must just be a savant at lockpicking… almost never have a problem while using controller - even “hard” locks. I don’t have the skill to do “very hard” locks yet, so not sure how much tougher they are. There are definitely some skills that make picking easier, so don't get discouraged - practice may not make perfect, but it will give picking perks.
Talk to the miller to practice lockpicking several times, same with pickpocketing practice. Talk to Bernard to practice combat, and do all the options. Despite covering perfect blocks and ripostes in the story mission tutorial, ripostes weren't possible for me until I redid the perfect block / master strike training. Practicing combos again will grant you a free basic combo (being good enough to actually use it in combat is another thing entirely though). Get enough good armor and group combat will become more of an issue of managing stamina and positioning while waiting for riposte opportunities. I can and have taken on groups of 4-5 bandits and won, but it's always difficult and requires using the terrain to your advantage and trying to keep them all coming at you from the same general direction. If they can surround you they'll very quickly deplete your stamina and then you're just a few hits away from dying.
Combat however - probably the most important skill in the game
Super minor nitpicky opinion: Lack of Combat skill is certainly the one that will most quickly result in your demise, but I'd actually suggest Reading as the most important skill, and probably Speech just behind that.
And kinda piggybacking on that notion - I wonder how far you can get through the game without engaging in deadly combat? Sure, there are a bunch of mandatory tutorial fights and fisticuffs, but is it possible to actually use all of the other skills available (stealth, pickpocketing, speech, etc) to get through the game?
And kinda piggybacking on that notion - I wonder how far you can get through the game without engaging in deadly combat? Sure, there are a bunch of mandatory tutorial fights and fisticuffs, but is it possible to actually use all of the other skills available (stealth, pickpocketing, speech, etc) to get through the game?
Answer: There's a pretty big battle at about the halfway point of the story, and while you can use stealth to preemptively make the battle easier, and also sit back and let others do most of the fighting, it doesn't seem possible to completely avoid combat.
I finally attempted the Rattay Tournament for the first time last night. I won the first round but lost against the second opponent. I was going to angrily reload my save from just before the tournament began to get my meager 60 groschen back, but then I realized that 60 groschen was a really cheap price for a ton of completely danger-free combat skill training. I'll definitely be participating in the Tourney every time it pops up now, if only for the training.
The Too Long: Didn't Read is that this is a great game that has many, many flaws. There's so much to enjoy, and so much to leave you howling in frustration as well. Overall though, I'm glad I've played it.
I certainly don't disagree with you, but I will say that the flaws haven't significantly impacted my enjoyment. Maybe I'm a masochist for this kind of game?
Anyway, I'm also glad to see that the sequel (which comes out next week) is currently ranking #4 in the Top Sellers list on Steam right now.
This article from around KC:D's launch really resonates with me.
I’m a serial save scummer. In open-world RPGs my finger snaps to F5 at the first hint of danger, ready to quick save. As soon as things go south I’ll reload, and try again until I get the outcome I want. It’s a viable—and often very fun—way to play. You win virtually every fight, pass every skill check, and get the best loot, which helps you build powerful characters.But Kingdom Come: Deliverance’s save system has shown me that the aftermath of my mistakes is worth sticking around for, and that living with the chaos is often more enjoyable than reloading and trying again. By taking away your ability to quick save it forces you to consider your actions more carefully and react to your own failures, which makes you feel more attached to the game’s main character, Henry.
Schnapps should really only be needed if you're far away from a town for an extended amount of time. If you're in a town, all you need to do is sleep for 1 hour at a bed you own or a rented bed, or visit a bathhouse and pay 10g for a bath and laundered clothes (and look much nicer as a result, to pass those Charisma checks!). Completing a quest should also give you a save, though that's a bit harder to plan around.
Your argument against the save system seems to always revolve around combat. I might put forth that your complaint is more about combat than the save system, in that KC:D does not respect the premise that we as gamers have come to expect: in a fight against many enemies, only one enemy will engage with us at a time.
I might put forth that your complaint is more about combat than the save system, in that KC:D does not respect the premise that we as gamers have come to expect: in a fight against many enemies, only one enemy will engage with us at a time.
Maybe, but I would be more inclined to say that the game wants you to treat combat like a quick time event rather than a first person engagement with full control over your movements. If your mouse is adjusting angle to keep your enemy centered then your swing will not go where you intended.
The game was much, much more enjoyable once I got mods that allowed saving anywhere and re-enabled the center dot when using a bow. Technically the last one can be done with just a console command, but I didn't want to have to enter it every time I started the game up.
Here's a few ~10 minute videos I've watched over the past week in the hopes of leveling up my personal skills at playing KC:D. I've been trying to use these more often, and not shy away from big combats.
And a longer one from another 'Tuber - a fun review/explanation of what KC:D is, and what I find so appealing about it:
So I restarted the game just after my doing the combat and archery tutorials, because - frankly - I didn't really feel like I knew what I was doing. It only took me a couple of hours to re-reach the same point in the game, and I now have a better feel for what the game is trying to do.
I think there are a number of problems with the early game, which stack on top of each other to detriment of player enjoyment:
Too Many Systems... Too Quickly
Mechanically, the game is composed of a number of mini-games (speech, combat, archery, haggling, lock-picking, etc.). However, the early game is poorly structured, resulting in the player having to learn - and then use - lots of different systems in quick succession. It's overwhelming for the player.
For example, in one short period, I learn from Bernhard the basics of sword combat, then archery... and then I'm immediately forced to use both to beat a much more skilled opponent, Capon.
The game it feels like most to me is modern Madden, where every phase of the game now seems to involve a complex mini-game
Poor Tutorialisation
Several of the systems are taught very poorly. Pickpocketing, for example. It is never properly explained that the player has to exit the pickpocketing interface by moving the cursor back to the start position. Specifically, the in-game explanation never says the words "move the cursor back to its start position at 12 o'clock".
Merphle, you shouldn't have to go outside of the game in order to understand how these systems really work.
Combat
I agree with you, Sorbicol, that combat doesn't really work the way the game claims that it works.
When I fought Capon pretty much none of the techniques - that Bernard had literally just taught me - seemed to work. I could not land a combo. I could not dodge consistently. The only thing that worked was block and stab... which is what I did.
It's telling that one of the videos Merphle linked to advises the player to obtain a shield and sword as soon as possible which, of course, I did not know to do in either of my starts of the game. (Indeed, right now the only weapon I own is the Captain's Bow!
I appreciate that the developers are going for a form of 'realism' here; they want in-game skills to demand actual skill from the player. But this really isn't fun in the early stages (which is when it counts).
Also, (and crucially) I don't have any feel about the extent to which I can and should specialise (or role-play, to borrow a phrase). Can I have a fun and successful playthrough specialising only in thief-type
skills? Can I be an effective charismatic herbalist? Or do I have to become Level X with a pikestaff in order to see the end credits?
Annoyingly, I'm on console so mods are not available to me. And as I'm currently struggling with the first hunting mission, I'd really, really like the aiming reticle.
I think the thing that annoys me most about the early game is Henry's utter uselessness. I understand what the game is going for; it wants the player and Henry to grow, and become more skilled, together. But the fiction - that Henry is a completely blank slate - makes absolutely no sense to me. Henry's a blacksmith's son in his mid- to late-teens. He'd probably have been learning his father's trade for almost a decade. At the very least, he'd know one end of a sword from another (having helped make a few). And he'd almost certainly have very strong arms, having spent a lot of time working at an anvil. And yet my Henry barely has enough strength to draw a bow!
I agree with you that KCD is probably great fun the second time around, when the player is able to play with (or even break) the game at will. However, first playthrough, some of the early going is a bit miserable.
I don't mind the save system so much. 'Save & Exit' offers a simple, if cumbersome, way around not having Savior Schnapps. And I like the idea that saving should come at some kind of cost. I found myself 'save-crawling' through a fair bit of Skyrim simply because I could.
Where I think there is a potential problem with the game is lack of regular auto saves. At this early stage, they feel a little arbitrary and too infrequent to me. The game seems to save after major cut-scenes (it saved after my talk with the Bailiff). I'd prefer that it saved after missions.
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