[Discussion] 2024 Election catch-all

For stuff about the 2024 election

Nevin73 wrote:

RCV?

IMAGE(https://media.tenor.com/-UGSqHyaCXkAAAAM/rvd-rob-van-dam.gif)

This isn't how I envision "democracy" I know, the weirdos on the right will say we are a republic but (don't tell them) republic is a kind of democracy.

Still it just doesn't feel right somehow that 10s if not 100s of millions of people are unimportant in the election.

It All Comes Down To 7 States

The electoral map settles on seven states
Just over a month ago, Trump allies suggested Democratic-leaning states like Minnesota, Virginia or even New Jersey might be in play. Neither side believes that is still the case on Labor Day weekend.

In replacing Biden as the party’s nominee, Harris breathed new life into the Democrats’ political prospects, especially across the Sun Belt states of Arizona, Georgia, Nevada and North Carolina. All four states have significant numbers of African Americans and Latinos, traditionally Democratic constituencies who were down nationally on Biden but appear to have come home to rally behind Harris.

South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham was among the senior GOP officials who brokered a peace between Trump and Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp, whose feud threatened to undermine the Republican effort in the state. Graham told The Associated Press he was worried about Georgia’s shift leftward.

“Trump was up 5 or 6 points, and all over the course of a month it’s become much more competitive,” he said.

Republican pollster Paul Shumaker, an adviser to North Carolina Sen. Thom Tillis, said even a slight uptick in the Black vote has the potential to give Harris the edge in North Carolina, pointing to Mecklenburg County, the home of the Charlotte metro area, but also fast-growing counties such as Durham and Wake.

“If Kamala Harris could get them to turn out at the rate of Republicans in rural North Carolina, game over for Republicans,” Shumaker said of Black voters.

At the same time, Trump remains decidedly on offense in the Midwestern battlegrounds of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, which form the so-called Democratic “blue wall” that he narrowly carried in 2016 and barely lost in 2020.

Those seven states — in addition to swing districts in Nebraska and Maine that each award single Electoral College votes — will draw virtually all of the candidates’ attention and resources over the next nine weeks.

Trump is investing more advertising dollars in Pennsylvania than any other state through Election Day.

A Trump victory in Pennsylvania alone would make it much more difficult for Harris to earn the 270 electoral votes needed to win the presidency. Harris’ team insists she has multiple pathways to victory.

The Democrats’ organizing advantage
In the fight to frame the election on the air and reach voters in person, Democrats currently have a decided advantage.

Harris’ team is on pace to outspend Trump’s camp 2-to-1 in television advertising over the next two months. And even before Biden made way for Harris, the Democrats wielded superior campaign infrastructure in the states that matter most.

Harris’ team, which includes her campaign and an allied super PAC, have more than $280 million in television and radio reservations for the period between Tuesday and Election Day, according to the media tracking firm AdImpact. Trump’s team, by contrast, has $133 million reserved for the final stretch, although that number is expected to grow.

Trump’s side is actually narrowly outspending Harris’ on the airwaves in Pennsylvania, where both sides will spend more than $146 million between Tuesday and Election Day, according to AdImpact, a figure that dwarfs that of any other state. Georgia is drawing nearly $80 million in ad spending over the campaign’s final nine weeks.

But in the other five battleground states, Harris largely has the airwaves largely to herself — at least for now.

Trump and his allied super PACs have made only marginal ad reservations in Michigan, Arizona, Wisconsin, North Carolina and Nevada to date. Harris’ team, by comparison, is investing no less than $21 million in each of the five states, according to an AdImpact analysis.

Harris’ team also boasts more than 300 coordinated offices and 2,000 staff on the ground in swing states, according to her campaign’s weekend memo.

Blair, the Trump campaign’s political director, disputes that Democrats have as big an organizing advantage as those numbers make it seem. He pointed to outside allies that will organize for Trump are well-funded, including a new effort backed by billionaire Elon Musk.

Trump’s campaign on Tuesday said it also has more than 100 dedicated campaign offices in key states, which are backed by another 200 existing GOP offices dedicated to Republican victories this fall.

Here’s what the polls say
Both candidates are locked in close races across the seven top swing states. Democratic pollster John Anzalone said Harris “put the Democrats back in the game to where it’s kind of a toss-up.”

But now comes the hard part, Anzalone said.

“Post Labor Day, when the bell rings, there is a battle for a slim universe of — you can call them anything you want: persuasion voters, swing voters, independent voters — and it’s pretty small, and that’s where each side gets a billion dollars,” Anzalone said.

Many independents appear to find both candidates unsatisfying, according to an AP-NORC poll conducted in August.

For now, Harris also has a slight advantage on some key traits among independents, while she and Trump are about even on others.

For example, about 3 in 10 independents say that “honest” describes Harris better, while about 2 in 10 say it describes Trump better. About 3 in 10 also say that “committed to democracy” describes Harris better, while less than 2 in 10 say it describes Trump better.

The candidates were about equally likely to be perceived by independents as capable of winning the election, capable of handling a crisis, and “caring about people like you.”

For example, about 3 in 10 independents say that “honest” describes Harris better, while about 2 in 10 say it describes Trump better.

My god, what world are these people living in where seven out of ten of them think that "honest" describes Donald Trump at all?!

I don't even think the GOP thinks he's that honest! (They just don't care.)

Keldar wrote:

My god, what world are these people living in where seven out of ten of them think that "honest" describes Donald Trump at all?!

I don't even think the GOP thinks he's that honest! (They just don't care.)

Honest as in terms of "isn't bullshitting us about how much of an asshole he is"?

Jonman wrote:
Keldar wrote:

My god, what world are these people living in where seven out of ten of them think that "honest" describes Donald Trump at all?!

I don't even think the GOP thinks he's that honest! (They just don't care.)

Honest as in terms of "isn't bullshitting us about how much of an asshole he is"?

Honest as in "he's saying the things out loud that I normally only get to say under a sheet."

IMAGE(https://i.redd.it/gjr2zo26lnmd1.png)

mudbunny wrote:
Jonman wrote:
Keldar wrote:

My god, what world are these people living in where seven out of ten of them think that "honest" describes Donald Trump at all?!

I don't even think the GOP thinks he's that honest! (They just don't care.)

Honest as in terms of "isn't bullshitting us about how much of an asshole he is"?

Honest as in "he's saying the things out loud that I normally only get to say under a sheet."

I don’t know when the last time any of you have watched conservative media, but every day conservative media consumers are being told that millions of immigrant drug mules are flooding the country and start committing crimes the moment they cross border, the most common form of abortion is clubbing a baby to death a couple hours after birth, and all blue cities are smoldering ruins patrolled by Antifa gangs while cops are legally prevented from doing anything.
Trump says basically the same stuff in his rallies, it conforms to what they’re already being told so it’s a sign of him being “honest” while “Krime-ala” lies because she says otherwise.

Here's a good look into what's going on in Trump country:

ruhk wrote:
Keldar wrote:

My god, what world are these people living in where seven out of ten of them think that "honest" describes Donald Trump at all?!

Trump says basically the same stuff in his rallies, it conforms to what they’re already being told so it’s a sign of him being “honest” while “Krime-ala” lies because she says otherwise.

I mean, yes, but the question was specifically asked of "independents", and I thought anyone attending a Trump rally would have a very clear idea of where their loyalties lie.

Top_Shelf wrote:

Here's a good look into what's going on in Trump country:

It is interesting. Still doesn't answer if for me. They have more defined faces/personalities but still doesn't help me understand.

14 minutes in they give a bit.

"Maybe he gave them someone to blame for their problems - Immigrants, queer kids, radical socialists."
"both parties felt captured and no one there could influence them. trump was going to save us, he's gonna be different"

His offered solution was for dems to really work for the working class again. I think they are trying but it is a tough job considering "citizens united" and money in politics.

So I can see a bit voting for trump the first time but voting for him the second time really can't be explained by that. We have 4 years of trump's actions - and they didn't help these people. So voting for him now is about something else - probably the first thing i.e. someone to hate.

His offered solution was for dems to really work for the working class again. I think they are trying but it is a tough job considering "citizens united" and money in politics.

So I can see a bit voting for trump the first time but voting for him the second time really can't be explained by that. We have 4 years of trump's actions - and they didn't help these people. So voting for him now is about something else - probably the first thing i.e. someone to hate.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Biden finally did what I was hoping to see (major infrastructure investments) and they don't care because they are all '3 hours away'.

farley3k wrote:
Top_Shelf wrote:

Here's a good look into what's going on in Trump country:

It is interesting. Still doesn't answer if for me. They have more defined faces/personalities but still doesn't help me understand.

I think it is basically about class identification, but class in America is about way more than just money. By global standards, most people in the US are pretty wealthy and comfortable, so class in the US is more about intelligence, values, and cultural and aesthetic preferences.

For much of my life, the Republicans had an edge over the Democrats in the broad education level of their voter base (yes, yes, people with post-grad educations have always voted more with the Democrats). That seemed to begin changing in the tea party era and has accelerated pretty rapidly, leading to a partial inversion in the core voter bases of each party (apparently this happens every 40-60 years in American politics). The Democrat base electorate is now significantly more educated than the Republican electorate. This also explains the working class Democrat to Trump voter pipeline that so much of the traditional white working class has followed.

In his reactive and simplistic understanding of the world, Trump presents a perspective that is more easily intelligible to less intelligent, less educated, "low information" voters, be they white, black, or brown. Most Trump voters don't see him as "far-right" or cruel or evil. To the extent that they are aware of them, these voters are totally alienated by Heritage Foundation eggheads and the Paul Ryan Republicans. But, in Trump, they see a person who speaks to their anxieties and "tells it like it is." He speaks to them at a level that they don't see reflected by the educated and professionalized minority of citizens who effectively run modern society (managerial class bureaucrats and associated professions). Class identification works to define an ingroup and and outgroup. For many Trump voters, the outgroup is the professional class in American life (Trump's bio may help him here - he was never a professional in the sense that he had to master and apply a complex body of knowledge or use that knowledge within the context of supporting the interests of an institution). And there is nothing that people dislike or mistrust more than the outgroup.

Most human beings limit and self-select their social groups to people who are generally similar to them in intelligence and values. It is really hard, even for very smart people, to model the internal realities of people who are different from them.

Sure. No problem.

Donald Trump has made it known that, if elected again, he will create a “government efficiency” commission to audit the federal government. And his pick to lead this group would be Elon Musk.

So many people believe Elon in a genius that it is shocking. I have a die hard liberal friend who still maintains Musk is brilliant.
They see Tesla's on the road, they see posts from X quoted all the time so obviously the (current) head of those things must be smart.

farley3k wrote:

So many people believe Elon in a genius that it is shocking. I have a die hard liberal friend who still maintains Musk is brilliant.
They see Tesla's on the road, they see posts from X quoted all the time so obviously the (current) head of those things must be smart.

That's funny. As much as I want to help the environment, I see a Tesla and think, damn that is associated with that wacko.

There are plenty of other EVs. Used Ioniq 5's from 2022 can be had for 25-30k in the US and it's an excellent car.

So Trump's basically saying he'll cede control of the federal government over to a billionaire who by the Constitution technically can't be president.

farley3k wrote:

So many people believe Elon in a genius that it is shocking. I have a die hard liberal friend who still maintains Musk is brilliant.
They see Tesla's on the road, they see posts from X quoted all the time so obviously the (current) head of those things must be smart.

The fact that they're pointing to Tesla and X, instead of SpaceX, which is the one and only Musk-owned business that's actually revolutionary and leading it's industry (which is far more to do with the competence of the thousands of SpaceX engineers, technicians and administrators than it is with the competence of Musk himself), is another sticker for their idiot's star chart.

Well aside from a serious f*ck up none of us will see SpaceX hardware in real life

farley3k wrote:

Well aside from a serious f*ck up none of us will see SpaceX hardware in real life :)

Yeah, but nearly ALL of us have seen footage of SpaceX boosters landing. Successfully and unsuccessfully.

Musk did not invent Tesla; he *bought* the company from its founders. Neither does he have an engineering degree. (He does, however, have one in physics.) He's a somewhat technical business guy who thinks that he can master any topic in small amounts of time, better than the experts.

Just like Trump, actually.

Liz AND her dad- Dick, I shoot my friends in the face, Cheney. Are going to vote for Kamala.

Is this a trick?

And now watch as centrists laud a war criminal.

Rat Boy wrote:

And now watch as centrists laud a war criminal.

He may be a war criminal, but he's our war criminal.

This is just an elaborate ruse so people will let down their guards around the Cheneys and get shot in the face.

The Washington Post article interviewing former Harris staffers has some amazing quotes:

Some of Harris’s early staff was also discomfited by her prosecutorial leadership style, former staffers said, which included pointed questions from Harris about footnotes in their reports or the reasons behind why certain items had been added to her schedule.

“It’s stressful to brief her, because she’s read all the materials, has annotated it and is prepared to talk through it,” said one former aide.

“You can’t come to the vice president and just ask her to do something,” said another staffer. “You need to have a why.”

That behavior manifests in other encounters, the staffer continued, such as when someone pays her compliments. “She’ll turn to them and say ‘why?,’ and that throws them off,” the staffer said.

Those poor private school nepo babies were expected to work and know what they were talking about. So unfair!

Yeah, my takeaway from that story was "Harris is highly competent and expects the same from those who work for her", which is very at odds with the tone of the story.

"Harris is kind of a demanding, asshole boss"

Yeah, I can live with that, frankly.

Hell, I'll be honest, I expect any half-decent President to be kind of an asshole boss. Emphasis on Kind Of, not "full-blown."

But kind of. I don't know if I'd want a "cool boss" running the country.

Also, it is NUTS that Dick Cheney no longer has any home in the modern Republican party.

farley3k wrote:
Top_Shelf wrote:

Here's a good look into what's going on in Trump country:

It is interesting. Still doesn't answer if for me. They have more defined faces/personalities but still doesn't help me understand.

14 minutes in they give a bit.

"Maybe he gave them someone to blame for their problems - Immigrants, queer kids, radical socialists."
"both parties felt captured and no one there could influence them. trump was going to save us, he's gonna be different"

His offered solution was for dems to really work for the working class again. I think they are trying but it is a tough job considering "citizens united" and money in politics.

So I can see a bit voting for trump the first time but voting for him the second time really can't be explained by that. We have 4 years of trump's actions - and they didn't help these people. So voting for him now is about something else - probably the first thing i.e. someone to hate.

The trouble with using excuses all the time is that when your hands are truly tied, no one really cares anymore.

Chairman_Mao wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

And now watch as centrists laud a war criminal.

He may be a war criminal, but he's our war criminal.

When Dick Cheney dies, the Devil may just have to give up a seat.