Noob to F1.
Why couldn't they incorporate more straitaways (?) or other things to allow for more racing?
Has the track always been this way and the sport is so mature that no changes happen because of driver skill or something?
Monaco is a historic track that is very much an outlier in the season. It wouldn't qualify as an F1 track if it tried to come in today.
The cars are bigger than they used to be, which makes it more difficult to overtake.
Also, we always complain about Monaco.
Noob to F1.
Why couldn't they incorporate more straitaways (?) or other things to allow for more racing?
Has the track always been this way and the sport is so mature that no changes happen because of driver skill or something?
In Monaco in particular I'm not sure there's a lot of room on the streets that would allow for this. And you also get to a point where the streets are so narrow that allowing for a longer straight were people could pass could get really dangerous.
If you look at other more modern street tracks (Las Vegas, Jeddah, Baku, Singapore) the track is wider (in most places) and the barriers are a wall with a fence. Monaco doesn't even have space for the walls --they still use guardrails-- so a high speed crash would be even more dangerous than in other places.
And I'm not even sure the layout of the streets has many places where you could add a longer straight. On top of this, I think there's a big element of tradition to not change the layout they've always used because the Monaco GP is all about F1 tradition.
Monaco is just not fit for modern F1 and it's been that way for a long time. But it's always been part of F1 and I'm sure they put enough money to still have the GP.
Yeah, adding straights to the Monaco track would involve destroying a few centuries old buildings.
It just kind of is what it is. The races usually suck, but if there's rain they can be insane. And while the races are a procession there's nothing else quite like watching the cars come to am almost complete stop at the hairpin before climbing the hill and a miscalculation causing the the cars to go pinballing around the chicanes.
I worry more about boring newer races than Monaco.
FIA announces 2026 chassis and aero specs.
Shorter wheelbase, narrower overall and slightly narrower tires plus active aero.
So, 2024 season is turning into something spicy! Max’ll still win the Championship, but constructors certainly still to play for.
Today’s race had shades of 2021
Yeah, if Perez continues to under perform there's a 3 way chase for the constructor's championship. And if Mercedes continues their resurgence maybe even a 4th.
A lot has been made of Max's maturity since 2021 but yesterday I think we saw that his... tendencies weren't gone. Just covered by the fact he hasn't had an on track race in 2 1/2 years.
Stewards and race control are going to have to watch him closely. The big incident would have been prevented if they had penalised him the previous lap for leaving the track, or even one of the earlier moving under braking incidents.
A lot has been made of Max's maturity since 2021 but yesterday I think we saw that his... tendencies weren't gone. Just covered by the fact he hasn't had an on track race in 2 1/2 years.
Yeah, I had this exact same thought watching it happen yesterday.
He's definitely become a bit more calm and in control since 2021, but yesterday showed that when genuinely challenged, he's still got the same core nature there -- he will never concede a position when on anything close to equal footing, even when it's clear he's outmatched. Instead, he will place his car in a way that skirts the rulebook and forces the other driver to choose between conceding the position (or going off track) and crashing (ESPECIALLY when he knows the other driver has more to loose by crashing).
And admittedly, they way he does this only is effective precisely because he is a generational talent -- few others could walk the same line as skillfully. But, that still isn't terribly endearing, you know? Sure, Hamilton was also driving hard in the 2021 season, and sure, I'm unabashedly a Hamilton supporter, but if the stewards had bothered to actually call a penalty on any one of three or four flagrant bits of unsporting driving by Max, the result at Abu Dhabi wouldn't have even mattered.
But, that's all been debated to death already -- the reality now, however, is that Lando is going to have to keep a cooler head and fight smarter to overcome Max's ability to defend on the borderline of fairness if he wants to actually give him a run for it. The move at turn 3 was never going to be on, and he should have realized that after his previous attempts -- the nature of how the track works there and the nature of how Max drives mean that he was just going to keep being frustrated and have any legitimate attempt turn into either a crash or a situation where the stewards would have to intervene with judgements about cars going off track.
Sure, it seemed like that was the section where the McLaren had the biggest performance advantage over the Red Bull, but the experience Lando needs to gain from this is Max is an X factor that has to change those calculations -- and, for example, using that advantage into turn 3 to instead set up a stronger move on turn 4 might be the only way to get past.
Anyway, too late now, but hopefully he takes the right lessons into Silverstone, and we don't have to suffer another round of Horner's smug face making stupid declarations about how "no one ever makes that move at Copse corner" even though it happened cleanly and effectively elsewhere even in the same race.
Lando 6 races ago wouldn't have made that move. I remember a few commentators saying that he seemed to lack the killer instinct against Max, being hesitant to fight. But as his confidence in himself and his car has grown he isn't scared to make a hard, fair move.
His overtake attempts were risky, but he stayed on track. He had to make the attempts, he had the measure of Max. And don't forget he had the 5 second penalty. He needed to get ahead and open a gap.
Max is going to need to learn to defend legally or the stewards are going to need to start applying the rules.
Max may be the best driver of all time, (what I would give for a pocket universe where I could see in their prime, Schumacher, Hamilton, Senna, Verstappen competing) but I don't think his defence skirts the line. He is over it and depends on the other driver losing their nerve.
Lando won't now, and if Max finds himself on track in a fight with Piastri? They're both over the fence.
Max is going to need to learn to defend legally or the stewards are going to need to start applying the rules.
Yeah, fully agreed -- but, I'm not going to hold my breath for either to happen. Although, I suppose they did give him the penalty this time (for all the good that did Lando), so maybe I should allow for a bit more optimism there? I dunno, I'm still bruised from 2021. 
Max may be the best driver of all time, (what I would give for a pocket universe where I could see in their prime, Schumacher, Hamilton, Senna, Verstappen competing) but I don't think his defence skirts the line. He is over it and depends on the other driver losing their nerve.
Heh, it is VERY possible that I'm overcompensating for the fact that I'm a Hamilton fan and giving Max too much credit there. Either way, his driving is so immaculately precise that it's easy for him and his defenders to sell the idea that he's just skirting the line, you know?
And yeah, it would be wild to actually be able to answer that question eh? The reality, though, is that they are all unimaginable generational talents but have such wildly different areas of expertise and brilliance that you'd also have to find a way to control for so many other outside factors (for example, how the races are officiated 
) that could potentially give one of their styles a benefit over the other in away that would still make it hard to answer the question.
Luckily I missed 2021, and sadly most of Lewis' dominance, so I don't have that trauma, lol.
And I'm not taking anything away from Max despite not being a fan, but his mythos is largely built out of a combination of his real skill, and his fearlessness. He drives like a gamer, I wonder if coming up in F1 when it has been really safe with very tough cars contributes to his willingness to stick his elbows out.
And when it paid off most he got away with it, then the team dominated the next 2 years so he never really faced any fallout. They rewrote the rules and never really needed to enforce them.
What a race!
It really was. From that wild Q1 it was excellent.
Lando was definitely kicking himself for the final tyre decision. I do worry a bit that he beats himself up too hard for mistakes though.
I'm so thrilled for Hamilton though, 9 wins at Silverstone after such a long drought is truly amazing.
And a nice change that although the racing has always been full of fun fights down the order we're now watching those fights up front.
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And going back to last week's incident between Lando and Max I was very pleased with both their attitudes coming into the weekend.
Essentially both said they could have done a bit more to prevent the incident but they've spoken and they both agree they're there to race so they expect things to get spicy.
The FIA has also come out and said they should have given Max the black and white earlier so they will be watching him a bit closer, which is good because a major part of the responsibility falls on them for their lax attitude to enforcement.
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I hope that one day we learn what the turnaround discovery was for Mercedes. James Allison said it was something so dumb and obvious.
The FIA has also come out and said they should have given Max the black and white earlier so they will be watching him a bit closer, which is good because a major part of the responsibility falls on them for their lax attitude to enforcement.
Yeah, I was glad to to see that happen -- we'll see if it affects things in the long run, but it did seem like the drivers were on their best behavior in general this week? (Although maybe that was just a coincidence caused by the conditions and other factors?)
I hope that one day we learn what the turnaround discovery was for Mercedes. James Allison said it was something so dumb and obvious.
Yeah, I've been thinking about that interview he did on Behind the Grid a few weeks back a lot over the last several weeks. Likely the "thing" they realized was probably either too technical for laypeople to understand anyway, even beyond concerns of revealing their hand too much to their competitors, but I'd still love to hear more conversation about the whole process.
Also, I keep thinking back to the beautiful way he talked about what motivates him (and his team) to keep going, and seeing both the celebrations last week when Russel one, and even more so this week with Lewis' win being even more on simple merit, and being thrilled that they got to have that moment, especially at such a meaningful event as Silverstone, even if it doesn't translate into longer term success.
Can someone explain to me what happened at the end of the Hungary race?
Norris up 6s with like 3 laps to go, then let's his teammate through on purpose? Why? Does it benefit the team in some way? Did Piastri let Norris through similarly earlier on so it's a fair play kinda thing?
Apologies for the questions, but I didn't have sound on during the race (too early for the house and I was busy doing chores).
I don't get this sport!
This article goes into what happened.
Basically, it seems Piastri led most of the race only losing the lead because of some pit stop drama. McLaren then asked Norris to return the lead to Piastri, since he lost it because of a team decision, and Norris did not appear on board with the idea.
McLaren is a source of constant drama in IndyCar as well, so at least they have a consistent corporate culture. 
I feel like their race briefing goes something like, "Whoever is in front after lap 1 gets to keep the position" or "Whoever is in front the most gets to finish ahead of the other".
Piastri had controlled the first two-thirds of the race after seizing first place from his pole-getting teammate with a better launch off the line, but the team had incidentally swapped their positions at the second pit stops in a bungled attempt to cover the threat of a Lewis Hamilton undercut from behind.
Hamilton stopped on lap 40, with Norris stopping on lap 45 and remaining ahead. But the undercut was powerful at the Hungaroring, and when Piastri stopped two laps later, he rejoined the race behind his teammate.
The lead driver is ordinarily given the rights to the first pit stop, and the Australian had been promised the positions would be swapped back before the end of the race in lieu, but Norris made clear immediately that he wasn’t interested in playing the team game.
Please confirm that it's not just my Hamilton fandom -- Verstappen is being an absolute whiny baby about that incident, right? He made an overconfident, overambitious lunge, he locked up, and he ran into Hamilton who was following a legit racing line, simple as that.
And really, same goes for the lap 1 situation where he tried to go around the outside three wide on the McLarens. Hell, and in general, right? He's getting frustrated, making mistakes, and blaming everyone else to avoid having to face the truth that he's been put a bit on tilt by the fact that his car isn't the dominant force it has been for the past two years.
Not particularly endearing.
Wooooooowwwww. Just watch the highlights. I don't sub anymore to watch the full races, but I would if that race was indicative of things to come.
So good to see Verstappen's true nature come out in such an ugly way. I always felt like he was that kinda BS driver.
Wooooooowwwww. Just watch the highlights. I don't sub anymore to watch the full races, but I would if that race was indicative of things to come.
This one was fun for sure, although it was more a strategy race punctuated by some intense action at either end. Worth watching, but I'd say the real gem so far this season was Silverstone. What an amazing race that was from start to finish.
tuffalobuffalo wrote:Wooooooowwwww. Just watch the highlights. I don't sub anymore to watch the full races, but I would if that race was indicative of things to come.
This one was fun for sure, although it was more a strategy race punctuated by some intense action at either end. Worth watching, but I'd say the real gem so far this season was Silverstone. What an amazing race that was from start to finish.
Yes. I watched highlights on that one. Super cool.
Thread title changed!
Max is still probably going to win, but it's not a completely foregone conclusion anymore, which is nice!
Somebody force him to do more iRacing but this time until 7a local.
If that is genuinely the reason why he's not as dominant anymore, that is hilarious and also, Max, I totally get it. "One more turn"-itis is real.
If that is genuinely the reason why he's not as dominant anymore, that is hilarious and also, Max, I totally get it. "One more turn"-itis is real.
Nah, that was pure, Crofty horseshit. Max has always done tons of sim racing, including on race weekends. In fact, one might argue that part of why some of the younger drivers like him and Lando are as talented as they are is in part due to their ongoing interest and participation in sim racing.
No, Max wasn't on tilt because he was up too late, he was on tilt because the organizational chaos at Red Bull seems to finally be showing in both the car's loss of dominance and in a lack of sharpness in other aspects of their trackside operations, and he's got no tolerance for the idea of going back to being a team that's almost but not quite the best. That's not to excuse him being a whiney baby on radio, of course, but it's meaningful to have an accurate understanding of why he's being a whiny baby.
(Incidentally, I'm still not sure what has been the best part of the last few races. Seeing other people win is spectacular, but hearing GP shut down Max's stupid complaining and attempts to bully the ref on multiple occasions was exquisite.)
Okay, fine, that can be the truth, but I am choosing to believe Max Verstappen has a crippling CK3 addiction because it's much funnier that way.
Nah, that was pure, Crofty horseshit.
I've been staying at my folks for a couple of months while looking for a place and we've had to watch the F1 with the Sky feed. I can tell you that being able to watch F1TV with their commentary after the break is a top 5 reason I'm happy we found a place.
I did watch the race with Croft and Rosberg earlier in the year and that was delightful. Nico just didn't tolerate Croft's wild speculations and nonsense.
Worst kept secret in F1 yet somehow I'm still a little surprised. In my heart of hearts I believed he was going to retire from racing, for a while at least.
It makes sense though. Brand new factory and facilities, no shortage of funding, shares in the company, it's in the UK so close to his family, one excellent driver, a working relationship with Honda.
Yeah, it does makes sense.
I was of course hoping that the draw of working with Hamilton (and, well, Ferrari) would have brought him there and increased the chances of Lewis managing to get his eighth (ninth, depending on how you feel about the officiating of Abu Dhabi 2021) championship before retiring. But oh well.
I suppose Lawrence Stroll may have finally bought a championship for his son...'s teammate.
Best of luck to Alonso at not screwing up his relationship with the team before the car is ready!
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