NFL 2023: The Week 4 thread

The fumbled snap by Zach was bad, but it wouldn’t have been a turnover if the defensive tackle wasn’t able to instantly take the A gap and immediately walk into the backfield.

Holy sh*t how did Donovan Smith not get called for holding on that long 3rd down? Jermaine Johnson was being held so badly he raised his hand up to alert the ref, and started smacking Smith in the facemask to try and make him let go.

EDIT: And then they call that “hold” on Sauce? Jets fans are going to have some legitimate grievances at the end of this one, especially if they lose.

*Legion* wrote:

Holy sh*t how did Donovan Smith not get called for holding on that long 3rd down? Jermaine Johnson was being held so badly he raised his hand up to alert the ref, and started smacking Smith in the facemask to try and make him let go.

EDIT: And then they call that “hold” on Sauce? Jets fans are going to have some legitimate grievances at the end of this one, especially if they lose.

Nah. They got a safety for a penalty on the 1-yd line and a horse collar tackle for a guy grabbing the jersey. They have nothing to complain about.

Jets got hosed. If I was a Jets fan, I would be furious. I watched that whole game, just to see the refs deliver the final drive to the Chiefs on a silver platter. Flagrant non-call for holding on 3rd and 20, and then a nonsense defensive holding call on 3rd and 22. Absolutely horrible.

Pink Stripes wrote:

They got a safety for a penalty on the 1-yd line

The penalty of illegal hands to the face or 5-yard incidental facemask happened on the 1 yard line. The yank which turned it into a 15-yard personal foul penalty happened in the end zone.

*Legion* wrote:
Pink Stripes wrote:

They got a safety for a penalty on the 1-yd line

The penalty of illegal hands to the face or 5-yard incidental facemask happened on the 1 yard line. The yank which turned it into a 15-yard personal foul penalty happened in the end zone.

As they were breaking this down it also doesn't make any sense really.

So if the lineman commits the foul earlier while the QB is in the end zone the better really. Even though you committing the foul is preventing the safety the second it happens.

Pretty much any O line penalty on a endzone passing play should just be a safety.

"Should" is a different matter. That's not the rule.

jowner wrote:

Pretty much any O line penalty on a endzone passing play should just be a safety.

Yeah, the way they call it now - by the location of the foul - is odd. It means you could end up in a situation where a hold behind the play causes a safety even though the ball itself was never behind the goal line.

This seems like the easiest thing in the world to clean up. Any post-snap foul on the offense while the ballcarrier is in the endzone should result in a safety.

I was pulling for the Jets but regardless they should be proud of the effort. Holding Mahomes to 0 TD passes in the 2nd half is no small feat.

Pink Stripes wrote:

"Should" is a different matter. That's not the rule.

Doesn't matter for tonight's situation.

ARTICLE 15. TWISTING, PULLING, OR TURNING THE FACEMASK OR HELMET OPENING. If a player grasps an opponent’s facemask or helmet opening, he must immediately release it. He shall not grasp and control, twist, turn, push, or pull the facemask or helmet opening of an opponent in any direction.

Penalty: For twisting, turning, pushing, pulling, or controlling the mask or helmet opening: Loss of 15 yards. The player may be disqualified if the action is flagrant. If the foul is by the defense, it is also an automatic first down.

The twisting which makes it a penalty happened in the endzone. The grasp began outside the endzone, but as the rule states, the grasping player has the opportunity to release the grasp. (To correct my previous comment: the 5-yard facemask penalty no longer exists. The parameters are the same, it's just that what would have been called a 5-yard facemask is now not even a penalty at all).

Facemask has not been twisted:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/cJwcBb4.png)

Facemask still not really twisted (though we're already in the endzone at this point):

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/U8tcBd2.png)

Now the facemask is being clearly twisted:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/HC5TJAM.png)

Even if you want to try and pick nits with this, you can't really argue that calling the facemask in the endzone, based on the text of the rule, is an unreasonable conclusion.

*Legion* wrote:

If I was a Jets fan, I would be furious.

Isn't that the default setting for Jets fans?

But the rule does not require twisting for a penalty. That's not what "or" means. And reading the rule makes me wonder... what exactly is "control" there? Does failing to immediately release the grasp amount to "control"?

Rat Boy wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

If I was a Jets fan, I would be furious.

Isn't that the default setting for Jets fans?

Yes.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/grjbyXL.gif)

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/kO0rHtD.png)

Oh look the NFL bails out KC again with a bogus late defensive penalty.

TheGameguru wrote:

Oh look the NFL bails out KC again with a bogus late defensive penalty.

Just like they screwed the Ravens with a non call on a clear dpi last week.

sh*t like that makes me think the Keegan Michael Key commercials are just saying the quiet part out loud.

The NFL must be losing their minds at the potential of a KC Super Bowl with Swift in attendance.. You don't even have to have a spoken conspiracy.. just a look around the table is enough.

IMAGE(https://i.redd.it/w9xjfrok1srb1.png)

*Legion* wrote:
jowner wrote:

Pretty much any O line penalty on a endzone passing play should just be a safety.

Yeah, the way they call it now - by the location of the foul - is odd. It means you could end up in a situation where a hold behind the play causes a safety even though the ball itself was never behind the goal line.

This seems like the easiest thing in the world to clean up. Any post-snap foul on the offense while the ballcarrier is in the endzone should result in a safety.

I'm also just for more safeties for chaos.

Over the course of a season it would mean more safeties and more wonky crazy games where the random 2 points make the coaches really start grinding math we know they can't do.

Wouldn't hurt to make field position and defenses matter just a tad more considering how stacked things have become against defending.

Folks this morning are making a huge deal about Josh Allen throwing 4 TD, 0 INT, rushing for a TD, and having a perfect passer rating.

But didn't some running back do that already?

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

IMAGE(https://i.redd.it/w9xjfrok1srb1.png)

Now do the one that’s all downs. Go ahead, show us the QB that’s at the top of that chart.

Hint: his rookie teammate is already the most amazing kicker the sport has ever seen.

(BAKE still ranks well on that one too, coming in 5th in the EPA+CPOE composite)

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

IMAGE(https://i.redd.it/w9xjfrok1srb1.png)

Oh no.

Geno.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/nPwEUDy.jpg)

I appreciate that the person who made that included the MLS.

Also this Reddit-sourced research puts a Kelce-Swift breakup right around the SB...
IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/2Ljd47a.png)

*Legion* wrote:

Holy sh*t how did Donovan Smith not get called for holding on that long 3rd down? Jermaine Johnson was being held so badly he raised his hand up to alert the ref, and started smacking Smith in the facemask to try and make him let go.

The play in question. This isn't "there's holding on every play" sort of holding. This was infuriating.

TheGameguru wrote:

The NFL must be losing their minds at the potential of a KC Super Bowl with Swift in attendance.. You don't even have to have a spoken conspiracy.. just a look around the table is enough.

1. Do her relationships last that long?
2. If yes, hopefully Travis will bring her to the game to watch his brother play.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

and, holy balls, does Desmond Ridder suck. How do you pack a team full of skill position players and forget about the QB? It's idiotic.

Their decision not to beat Dallas's offer for Trey Lance is looking especially awful. Maybe Lance wouldn't work out, but how do you not at least take that shot, when your alternative for the season is just Ridder and Heinicke? A cheap flier for a guy with high-end tools seems like a no-brainer, especially for a team who likely won't be bad enough to get into Caleb or Maye draft territory next spring.

*Legion* wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

and, holy balls, does Desmond Ridder suck. How do you pack a team full of skill position players and forget about the QB? It's idiotic.

Their decision not to beat Dallas's offer for Trey Lance is looking especially awful. Maybe Lance wouldn't work out, but how do you not at least take that shot, when your alternative for the season is just Ridder and Heinicke? A cheap flier for a guy with high-end tools seems like a no-brainer, especially for a team who likely won't be bad enough to get into Caleb or Maye draft territory next spring.

Listen, once you draft the RB in the top ten (after consecutive top ten picks of TE and WR) you're clearly set, and, today, in what I'm pretty sure is 1973, throwing the ball is really sub-optimal anyways and you just want to shove it down their throat on the ground.

I have no idea what the Falcons are doing. The Panthers drafted The World's Smallest QB and put him behind an offensive line made of tissue paper and snot, and he's going to die. The Saints are eternally in salary cap hell and keep having to cut good players so they have an eternal core of a few superstars and utter scrubs. I'm trying to deal with the idea that the Buccaneers are the best-run franchise in the division.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Listen, once you draft the RB in the top ten (after consecutive top ten picks of TE and WR) you're clearly set, and, today, in what I'm pretty sure is 1973, throwing the ball is really sub-optimal anyways and you just want to shove it down their throat on the ground.

I mean, that sounds like a perfect reason to get this guy:

IMAGE(https://media.giphy.com/media/y6sjty6jYuKjHsg97N/giphy.gif)

I have no idea what the Falcons are doing. The Panthers drafted The World's Smallest QB and put him behind an offensive line made of tissue paper and snot, and he's going to die. The Saints are eternally in salary cap hell and keep having to cut good players so they have an eternal core of a few superstars and utter scrubs. I'm trying to deal with the idea that the Buccaneers are the best-run franchise in the division.

I want to push back on this, but I can’t find any openings. Tampa should re-think their not-extending-Mike-Evans position, because they’re not as far away as they looked in camp when Baker and Trask seemed to be having the world’s worst QB competition.

I remember at the time thinking Ridder would be the best QB in the draft.

Spoiler:

And if not for some Brock Purdy guy, I would still be right!

Yeah, that would have been kind of like saying before Geno's turnaround Mike Glennon was the best QB of the 2013 draft. At some point it's both true and a compliment to no one.