[Discussion] The Middle East in Crisis

A place to post and discuss news related to the recent events in Israel, including the Hamas/Islamic Jihad incursion and repercussions.

I immediately edited my comment prior to your response FWIW as I posted too quickly in anger, so I will extend the same grace to you in reconsidering your response as well.

maverickz wrote:

Jewish lives lost are worthy of their own grief, sadness, and anger. They deserve to be mourned on their own without the condition that other lives lost must be acknowledged before they matter. They are worthy all on their own.

This conversation is moving fast, and there is a lot of emotion - but I think this is worth quoting. For so many of us it's easy to say put a "but" in our response/consideration/opinion of Israel/Gaza relations, but Mav really nailed it for me and put words to something I have been chewing on since this happened.

I think there are a lot of really good people here who are trying to process a global trauma and are missing the mark. I'd just say take a break for a second and process what is being said in the quote above and the place from which it is coming.

That's fine and all, but those lives lost aren't t merely being mourned, they're being used as justification for retaliating by taking even more lives in response.

It was wrong when the US did it after 9/11 (and I said so on this very site back when 9/11 was being used to justify the invasion of Iraq too) and it's wrong now.

"40 Jewish children were murdered" shouldn't be used to excuse and ignore the slaughter of hundreds of Palestinian children.

*mod* Locking thread to review.

*mod*

After talking it over, we’ve decided to leave this thread locked until at least Monday. This is a devastating and horrible situation, and it seems best to let it unfold without the realtime commentary for now.

If/when the thread is unlocked, we will be asking people to step out if they cannot engage without hurling invectives, and locking accounts if necessary. It would be helpful if everyone can take extra time considering what they’re posting, and step away if emotions are running high. This is a highly charged, and deeply personal tragedy for many, and it needs to be approached with care.

*mod* Thread open. Please consider what was posted above before contributing.

It looks like the Israeli MOD has stated that they may not go in full force into Gaza, instead saying they might "do something else". This is coincidental with Biden's announced visit. I imagine they may be related.

Probably egging ISR to seek a negotiated trade with Hamas to ensure the hostages are released without a risky and almost impossible rescue operation.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/wYpQceS.jpeg)

FM Cohen slams Vatican over tepid response to slaughter of Jews and Israelis

The article wrote:

“It is unacceptable that you put out a statement expressing worry primarily for Gazan civilians while Israel is burying 1,300 who were murdered,” says Cohen, according to the Foreign Ministry.

Social media's habit of making editorial decisions like removing all context from things isn't doing anything to help an already crappy, tense situation. It may be reasonable to still dislike the objection even with the full context, but removing the context makes it pretty likely people will get a very different idea about why it was objected to, especially since the objection was over something *not* included in the statement, rather than anything that was.

I think the key distinction is that the Pope understands that Hamas is a terrorist organization and no longer a legitimate governing body (regardless of any good the Dawah wing of the organization may attempt to do), whereas we can and should expect that a legitimate government like Israel's, as a part of the global community of governments, should make every effort to adhere to humanitarian principles.

Hamas deserves no quarter, on that I think we're all in agreement.

Sigh. A hospital down with hundreds of fatalities. Why are they striking those who take an oath to save lives?? Every life is precious. But more so the health professionals because they are selfless.

Bfgp wrote:

Sigh. A hospital down with hundreds of fatalities. Why are they striking those who take an oath to save lives?? Every life is precious. But more so the health professionals because they are selfless.

Agreed. Hamas and PIJ have killed countless Palestinians since the day of the Israeli slaughter. It's very sad that they continue to kill not just Israelis but their own people too.
https://x.com/GeoConfirmed/status/17...

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/AI2AyLv.png)

"Professional journalists" have been reporting for hours about the "Israeli air strike" without a shred of evidence. Give me a break. They peddle in rumor and propaganda just as much as redditors and Twitterers.

Click baiters aren't journalists.

China ramping up the anti-semitism

IMAGE(https://i.postimg.cc/gjBq0RBH/image.png)

I'm not seeing anything in there that excludes the PIJO rocket malfunction explanation.

Rat Boy wrote:

I'm not seeing anything in there that excludes the PIJO rocket malfunction explanation.

Are you familiar with the term "strike"?

Yes, I can read a headline. I can also read a full article, too.

Rat Boy wrote:

Yes, I can read a headline. I can also read a full article, too.

Do you understand the repercussions of this lie then? Because it's having some very real consequences. You've got four or five countries with itchy trigger fingers just waiting for any reason to start shooting at Israel.

Is it a lie? A government run by someone under criminal investigation who attempted to obliterate the powers of the Supreme Court is hardly a good faith actor.

Rat Boy wrote:

Is it a lie? A government run by someone under criminal investigation who attempted to obliterate the powers of the Supreme Court is hardly a good faith actor.

I'm being good Certis. Don't ban me bro.

Who had eight hours in the pool before invectives started getting hurled again?

I'll be diplomatic. Yes, it is a lie. It is utter, unmitigated horsesh*t coming straight from the mouths of known horsesh*t utterers.

*mod*

Don’t appreciate the “don’t ban me bro” jokes in a discussion like this, and the constant, aggressive stance and language which just incites flame wars. maverickz, you can take the rest of the week off from this thread.

Everyone, less replicating Twitter debates please. It seems like there’s a good 24 hours after anything happens almost any stance or idea can be confirmed by ‘sources’. Let the dust clear.

The hospital incident is a tragedy, regardless of where the attack originated. Yet more hundreds of wholly unnecessary and pointless deaths of a primarily civilian population who were already eking out a meager existence in one of the most intentionally impoverished places on the planet. Just piling more suffering and tragedy one atop the other.

edit: whoops, should have caught up on the thread first.

A bomb damage assessment under daylight might be able to clear up the what, be it a rocket or a bomb. Only thing that can be told is that a single munition came down from the air and had a sufficiently sized warhead to cause that level of death and destruction. If it wasn't a shoot down gone horribly wrong, then the why may never be determined.