NFL 2022: The training camp thread

*Legion* wrote:
Raiders first-round picks from 2019-2021: 2019: DE Clelin Ferrell, RB Josh Jacobs and S Jonathan Abram: 5th-year options declined. 2020: WR Henry Ruggs III & CB Damon Arnette: both waived following off-field incidents. 2021: Alex Leatherwood: Waived after one season.

They're not the only ones:



That’s every team. The mistake is for a team/owner/GM thinking they’re good at drafting. Because no one is (on average). Sure you can have good stretches of success (the Niners have had a 50% hit rate on 1-2-3’s in the last 3 years) but you look before that and they’re much worse.

It’s easy to forget the average NFL career is about 3.3 years. With 300+ draft picks + UDFA’s per year the mathematical hit rate is quite simple that no one is going to be good at drafting. Just get more picks to increase your lottery ticket chances. (Which is why the Saints are super dumb)

Carolina had nine 1-3 round draft picks from 2018 to 2020. Six of them are still with the team, and all six are starters this season.

Counterpoint: Carolina's bad.

WR D.J. Moore -- current starter; three straight 1,000-yard receiving seasons
CB Donte Jackson -- current starter but has had injury problems
CB Rashaan Gaulden -- played 24 games on ST, then cut in second season after running into the Panthers returner and causing a fumble
DE Brian Burns -- starter; NFL top 100 player
LT Greg Little -- horrible concussion issues; traded in 2021
QB Will Grier -- 0-2 in two starts with Carolina before cut after 2020 season
DT Derrick Brown -- three-year starter
DE Yetur Gross-Matos -- expected DE starter (finally) this year
S Jeremy Chinn -- three-year starter

Oh, I like this game, as long as we don't go back to 2016, because we don't need to talk about VH3 and YOU KNOW WHO.

1 DT Vita Vea (VITA GOOD)
2 RB Ronald Jones (gone, pass blocks as well as my dead grandmother)
2 CB MJ Stewart (gone)
2 CB Carlton Davis (CARLTON GOOD but not as good)
3 OG Alex Cappa (good, but off to Cincinnati on a big FA contract)

1 LB Devin White (athletic freak, bad at coverage, but good enough, huge part of SB run)
2 CB Sean Murphy-Bunting (good nickel, huge part of SB run)
3 CB Jamel Dean (very good, huge part of SB run)

1 OT Tristan Wirfs (MIGHT BE OK WHO KNOWS)
2 S Antoine Winfield Jr. (ALSO MAYBE JUST OK)
3 RB Ke'Shawn Vaughn (actually still on the team, marginal third-down guy)

The Bucs drafted like crap for years; starting in 2018, they built the Super Bowl roster. Between Vea, Wirfs, and Winfield, that's three guys who are legitimate potential All-Pros every year based on what they've shown.

Packers were doing pretty good in 2018/19 hitting first round picks. Then Jordan Love.

Outside the first round it's a mixed bag. I can handle a Josh Jackson and Jace Sternberger for a Elgton Jenkins.

Darnell Savage is a bubble guy. Most people think he's on his way out. So big year for him really and if he's not on the roster 1 year from now the additional picks they gave up to move up would make it that much worse an investment.

AJ Dillon was probably still a reach even though he's looking pretty good now. The knock always on him was even if he panned out he was most likely available further back.

The big busts are out of the league currently: 2
Oren Burks is on the 49ers first year away from the Packers.

7/10 are still on the team. Which implies good drafting but also maybe holding onto guys that are not actually NFL caliber or at least SB team level.

Round 1, pick 18 (via Seattle): Jaire Alexander, CB,Louisville
Round 2, pick 12 (45th overall): Josh Jackson, CB, Iowa
Round 3, pick 24 (88th overall): Oren Burks, ILB, Vanderbilt

#12 overall: Rashan Gary, EDGE, Michigan
#21 overall: Darnell Savage, Jr., S, Maryland (acquired from Seahawks for picks #30, #114, & #118)
#30 overall (acquired from Saints on 2018 draft-day trade) — traded
Round Two
#12 (#44 overall): Elgton Jenkins, G, Mississippi State
Round Three
#11 (#75 overall): Jace Sternberger, TE, Texas A&M


Round 1, pick 26: Jordan Love, QB, Utah State
Round 2, pick 62: AJ Dillon, RB, Boston College
Round 3, pick 94: Josiah Deguara, TE, Cincinnati

staygold wrote:

That’s every team. The mistake is for a team/owner/GM thinking they’re good at drafting. Because no one is (on average). Sure you can have good stretches of success (the Niners have had a 50% hit rate on 1-2-3’s in the last 3 years) but you look before that and they’re much worse.

It’s easy to forget the average NFL career is about 3.3 years. With 300+ draft picks + UDFA’s per year the mathematical hit rate is quite simple that no one is going to be good at drafting. Just get more picks to increase your lottery ticket chances. (Which is why the Saints are super dumb)

And that's without going into what position each team drafted at, or the cherry-picking of which rounds of the draft you take into account, or not counting rookie UDFAs like Jakobi Myers or JC Jackson for some reason.

And then there's the cherry-picking of stats and value judgements. Sony Michel "lost college burst" (?) but he had two 900+ yd seasons, broke the record for most playoff rushing TDs for a rookie, and scored a Super Bowl-winning TD. And then the Patriots managed to get some late picks for change, while he went on to play decently for another team and won another ring. And at this point he has comfortably exceeded the average career of a RB. But yeah, sure, let's call him a bust.

jowner wrote:

Round 1, pick 18 (via Seattle): Jaire Alexander, CB,Louisville

Hell yes.

Ravens drafts in rounds 1-3 since 2018

1 Hayden Hurst
1 Lamar Jackson
3 Orlando Brown Jr.
3 Mark Andrews

1 Marquise Brown
3 Jaylon Ferguson
3 Miles Boykin

1 Patrick Queen
2 J K Dobbins
3 Justin Madubuike
3 Devin Duvernay
3 Malik Harrison
3 Tyre Phillips

1 Rashod Bateman
1 Odafe Oweh
3 Ben Cleveland
3 Brandon Stephens

1 Kyle Hamilton
1 Tyler Linderbaum
2 David Ojabo
3 Travis Jones

Hayden Hurst mostly got overshadowed by Mark Andrews and requested a trade after getting buried in the depth chart. The Ravens got a 4th in a trade with Atlanta.

Orlando Brown, Jr. outplayed his position after Ronnie Stanley got hurt and requested a trade after it was clear the Ravens weren't going to give him Left Tackle money. Baltimore got a first rounder from KC in trade which they used for outside linebacker Odafe Oweh. Meanwhile, KC appears unable to sign Brown to an extension.

Marquise Brown had a 1000+ yard season during a year the entire rest of the team was injured. He requested a trade shortly after and was granted it to reunite with his college QB in Arizona. The Ravens got a first round pick they used to obtain center Tyler Linderbaum.

Jaylon Ferguson appeared to be poised to take over the starting DE spot before tragically dying in an accidental overdose.

Miles Boykin never quite lived up to his potential at Baltimore, but caught the game winning TD for Tampa in the Super Bowl.

Everyone else is still on the Ravens.

Had to post this. The Athletic's survey articles of "anonymous" people in the league are always the most insightful. I trust The Athletic to actually get surveys from meaningful people and not scrubs.

This one's a survey of agents, and there's too much stuff to discuss,

NFL agent survey: 26 reps on Deshaun Watson, Brian Flores, Lamar Jackson and more


Maybe there is no such thing as a normal year for NFL agents, but even for longtime player representatives, the past 12 months were anything but standard.

“I’ve been an agent for (over 30 years),” a prominent representative said. “And even with the challenges of COVID and CBA struggles, I think this is the toughest time to be an agent.”

He was specifically referencing the uncertain world of name, image and likeness — NIL — compensation, which has turned college football upside down and complicated the client recruitment process for NFL agents.

The Athletic’s fourth annual agent survey provided a forum for 26 certified agents to vent about numerous league-wide issues. Some participated in previous surveys. Others bring fresh perspectives. This diverse group represents hundreds of players — Super Bowl MVPs, Pro Bowl selections, franchise quarterbacks, practice squad hopefuls and 24 first-round selections over the past three years.

They shared anonymously to protect themselves and their clients while providing blunt observations about the Cleveland Browns trading for and signing Deshaun Watson, Lamar Jackson’s reputation ahead of a contract year, Brian Flores’ class-action lawsuit and much more. Agents also dished on general managers they trust, organizations they don’t and the league’s most powerful people.

The surveys were conducted between July 18 and Aug. 7. Participants received follow-up calls or new questions as stories developed.

1. What was the most interesting or surprising decision of the offseason?

Deshaun Watson trade/contract (17 votes)

• More on this below.

Kyler Murray’s homework/film study clause (three votes)

• “It’s a little embarrassing for both sides. If (that clause was) necessary, both sides would have been better off waiting and doing a contract later. … Everyone’s kind of ripping on the team. Why did you have to include the study clause? … If they were going to make you do those things, maybe (wait). If Kyler has another great year, I think you’re pushing for a fully guaranteed contract.”

Russell Wilson trade (two votes)

• “I don’t think anyone expected that heading into the offseason.”


• Quarterback movement throughout the league: “The Broncos couldn’t do anything else until they exhausted the Aaron Rodgers situation because they were fixated on him going back to 2021. When Aaron ultimately decided to stay in Green Bay, the Broncos focused their attention elsewhere, and the franchise quarterback dominos began to fall.”

• Davante Adams trade: “You sign Aaron Rodgers long-term and then get rid of his No. 1 target?”

• Controversies around the league: “The incredible ability of the NFL to dance through the raindrops on the Brian Flores lawsuit and Dan Snyder’s avoidance of a congressional subpoena. Incredible how the NFL never, ever, never seems to be held to account. The tradition continues. The league gets stronger and makes more money with owners running afoul. Cheerleader scandal in Dallas was basically a blip. All these and other scandals, and none have ever tipped the scales.”

2. What do you make of Deshaun Watson’s fully guaranteed, $230 million contract with the Browns and his punishment for what a retired judge deemed “egregious” and “predatory” behavior?

• “If the team believes your skill set as a player is going to help them, they’ll overlook certain things. … (The Browns) were comfortable with the situation. If Deshaun leads them to a championship, I don’t think you’ll see many people worried about it. If he plays bad, people are going to lose jobs. There are a lot of careers tied to that right now.”

• “Disgusting. Complete, 100 percent franchise malpractice. Sends the wrong message … For the Houston Texans to dump him as quickly as they did and to settle the lawsuits as quickly as they did says a lot about him. It says a tremendous amount about the Cleveland Browns organization. … To get a guy they think can help win games, where winning games is the priority over sending a message to women and sending a message to other athletes that behavior like that will be tolerated. … Desperate times call for desperate measures, and (signing Watson) is as desperate as anything I’ve ever seen in the history of professional sports in this country.”

• “The Cleveland Browns continuing to make fools of themselves by going after Watson.”

• “I wish I was at the owner’s meetings right after it was done. Jimmy Haslam has to be a wanted man amongst that group. The truth is he can afford to do it, and many owners can’t. … It’s great players get fully guaranteed contracts. Jimmy Haslam has sent a message to every player in the league that (teams) can afford to do this.”

• “I thought it was fantastic development for players and negotiations around the league. You had a franchise quarterback who was (essentially) a free agent. It was the ultimate leverage, and they took advantage of it. And I’d like to think there’ll be more of that moving forward.”

• “I understand why Cleveland did it. The AFC is loaded at quarterback, and look at their division. Cincinnati just went to the Super Bowl with Joe Burrow. Baltimore has an MVP quarterback (Lamar Jackson). Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh, Mike Tomlin just doesn’t have losing seasons. So now you’re sitting there with Baker Mayfield thinking we’re going to be a fourth-place team. People panicked. … If you have (Watson) as a top-five quarterback in the league, which some people did prior to all this, those quarterbacks never come available in their prime.”

• “We’ll continue to see more fully guaranteed contracts in the NFL. I think it was a monumental risk by the Browns. But I also think at the end of the day … they’ll take a really bad PR hit early on, and then he’ll throw touchdowns and everybody will forget about it. I think (the punishment is) soft. I’m very surprised it’s not (a full-season suspension). Especially after his comments after the fact. He shows no remorse.”

• “I think the league office showed a little backbone by appealing and increasing the suspension/fine. Good for them.”

• “I wish the NFLPA would fight as hard for its rank-and-file members who face possible suspension.”

• “He should have been suspended for a year. No remorse is a problem for me. And his guarantees should have been null and void.”

• “Look at what’s going on with (Dolphins owner) Stephen Ross on the other side. He’s done things that endanger the integrity of the game. He tampered with (Tom) Brady when he was in New England and Tampa. Then Ross tampered with (Sean Payton). He gets fined $1.5 million. We’re talking about a $5 million fine for a multimillionaire in Watson — there’s a calculation that goes into the fine based somewhat on what he was making. Fine the billionaire owner the same way. That’s why I think Watson’s penalty is excessive. … Executives and owners are supposed to be held to a higher standard.”

3. What do you make of former Dolphins head coach/current Steelers assistant Brian Flores starting a class-action discrimination lawsuit against the NFL?

• “Flores makes some arguments that are very legit. A lot of (minority candidates) know or at least feel ahead of time that they’re getting an obligatory interview to satisfy that quota. … Making hires based on prior relationships … unfortunately, because of how most of the coaching world looks, they end up being white guys. …Nepotism is extremely real, and unfortunately, it’s going to continue. The NFL doesn’t give a s—, they do not care. The owners don’t care. They just want to win. … They just want us to believe that they care.”

• “I admire him for doing it, but I always thought it would be very hard to prove.”

• “I like Flores. I dealt with him with the Dolphins. … I think he did a really good job in Miami. I was very impressed with him. I think he’s definitely going to be a head coach again. I know (Dolphins owner) Stephen Ross, and I don’t think there was any discrimination involved with the Dolphins and Flores. … I think it was probably more along the lines of just the personalities clashed. Very strong personality with Flores. Seemed like he, Ross and (GM Chris) Grier just had different philosophies.”

• “I think there is no doubt discrimination going on in the NFL, whether that be racial discrimination, sexual discrimination, homophobic discrimination — I think it all exists. It’s all prominent. With that said, I think there’s a lot more to the story in Miami with Brian Flores. Brian was a very difficult person to deal with.”

• “(Flores) actually did some pretty good things as coach in terms of multiple winning seasons, making the right moves. This is one of those businesses where if you don’t fall in line …”

• “If I were him, I might have tried to get the head job before filing the lawsuit. I think it definitely affected (his chances to get) a head job at the Texans and elsewhere. But I was shocked he got fired.”

• “Everything about Brian’s case bothers me. It bothers me if it’s true. It bothers me that he would risk what has been an impeccable ascendancy to the highest levels of this industry to make those accusations, to really be a martyr whether or not he wins or loses. I don’t know his end game. It scares me because I really respect the s— out of what he’s been able to accomplish as a football coach even though we have a horrible relationship.”

4. Lamar Jackson, acting as his own agent, is entering the final year of his rookie contract without a new deal. What do you make of it?

• “He’s trying to negotiate a contract in riddles. He’s not just being direct and saying what he wants to say. He has no one driving the ship for him right now.”

• “The whole Lamar deal started when people said, ‘We want to see you run a 40 at the combine. Go play receiver.’ That happens to (Black quarterbacks). … He needs representation. You’re getting surgery, you need to be represented by the proper doctors and physical therapists. If it’s a legal case, you need the best f—— lawyers, agents and representatives around you. He has none of that.”

• “By representing himself and not negotiating, it allowed the process to play itself out, and his value has gone way up. … Often, an agent is worried about keeping the client and thus is eager to negotiate an extension. Now, certainly, he or she battles for a good extension, but there’s an eagerness to get it done because they don’t want to get fired. With Lamar waiting, we’ve seen extensions for Aaron Rodgers and (Watson) that have raised the cost of quarterbacks. … I believe a good, reputable agent would do better than Lamar will do when it’s all said and done. But again, I give him a lot of credit for his patience. He has made himself millions of dollars being patient.”

• “Every other player in his draft class that needs to get paid got paid. Do you see Kyler Murray get paid before him? … When he won MVP, think about the lack of marketing. Baker Mayfield is on every freaking commercial, and our MVP is nowhere. That is because he has no representation.”

• “He’s far better than Kyler Murray and deserves a better contract.”

• “I commend Lamar for betting on himself. He is clearly the most dynamic player at his position.”

• “The one thing people are missing is that Lamar has a plan. The problem is no one in the media knows what his plan is because no one can get to him and he won’t talk about it.”

• “The majority of your Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks tend to be dropback passers more than scrambling quarterbacks. When you’re gonna pay a guy elite, elite money and guarantee elite, elite dollars, you need to trust that that quarterback will win a Super Bowl, not just get you to the game. I wonder if that’s the discrepancy or the challenge right now.”

• “I mean, he’s statistically been one of the best quarterbacks in the National Football League. He’s won games. He’s led his team. He stayed out of trouble. What else does he have to do? Not every team can win a Super Bowl. … I really just don’t understand the negativity surrounding Lamar other than he doesn’t fit in the little square box people have over quarterbacks.”

5. Do you think the other owners would ever kick out Commanders owner Daniel Snyder? (To do so would require 24 of 31 votes from the other owners.)

Yes or maybe (five votes)

• “Every time he does something, I think, ‘This is the one,’ and it doesn’t happen. Do I think they should? Yes. But every time another scandal creeps up and he slips through the cracks, it gives me less and less confidence that it will ever happen.”

• “I think there’s a chance that they would. We’ve seen precedent with the NBA. Need more information and more public pressure than we’ve seen already.”

No (19 votes)

• “Owners do not want to create the roadmap for their own self-destruction. Other owners have made mistakes, maybe not as egregious, but they’re sitting there thinking, ‘If we kick this guy out of the club, someone’s gonna kick me out of the club.’”

• “If the owners got together like on ‘Big Brother’ and voted each other, Jimmy Haslam or Snyder goes first. These owners can get real chummy with each other, and Dan Snyder is really close to Jerry Jones. … I just don’t see it happening. I think Dan Snyder is a lifer, and he’ll figure out a way to keep his team.”

• “I think the only thing that will ever force him out is if he really affects, significantly, their bottom line.”

• “As long as Jerry Jones is in his corner, the answer is no.”

6. Who is the most powerful person in and around the league?

Roger Goodell, NFL commissioner (16 votes)

• “The judge, jury and executioner. I don’t know who else other than maybe the owners, and Roger is their figurehead.”

• “He’s the voice of reason. He’s the one that collects (input from) all 32 (owners). It’s always about the owners. They call the shots. We have a union, but they are multibillionaires, and they do push around their weight. Roger is their voice that sometimes … has to discipline some of them or tell them they’re idiots for costing the group $750 million in lawsuits or settlements with the Rams move. … We can argue whether this owner is by far the most powerful or influential, but it still takes a collection of all of them to get business done. That’s literally why Roger makes $60 or whatever million a year. He’s the authority that steps in and says, ‘Jerry (Jones), I know you push your weight around, I know you’re more important than (Bengals owner) Mike Brown, but here’s why we should do this collectively.’”

Jerry Jones, Cowboys owner (six votes)

• “Hands down, without a doubt, No. 1, and anyone who says otherwise is an absolute idiot. Jerry Jones is the shadow commissioner of the National Football League. … He has made more rain for more owners than any man in the history of professional football in America. He single-handedly backstabbed Dean Spanos and the Chargers organization with what he did for Stan Kroenke in the Rams deal, which was obviously in the best interests of the NFL. He’s made Roger Goodell his puppet. He’s involved intimately in almost every marketing deal that the NFL has done over a billion dollars. And he has brought the windfall to all of these owners.”

• “Say what you want about the guy, but he knows how to get the other owners to befriend him while competing against him.”

Tom Brady, Buccaneers QB (two votes)

• “You’ve got an active player who’s the greatest player of all time. (Brady’s) voice, his opinion, just his impact on the game as a player and ambassador, to me, makes Brady the most powerful guy in football, on and off the field.”

Others: Bill Belichick, Patriots coach; Robert Kraft, Patriots owner; Stan Kroenke, Rams owner

7. Who is the most powerful person behind the scenes?

Troy Vincent, NFL’s EVP of football operations (four votes)

• “Troy Vincent is definitely making his mark.”

• “He’s got a lot of juice fighting for Black and minority causes, women’s rights within the league office, that type of thing. He’s really behind the scenes but has a lot of influence.”

• “He has hands in a lot of things, including the combine, and he just creates rules sometimes but, unlike Goodell, flies under the radar.”

Dan Snyder, Commanders owner (two votes)

• “Might be a surprising choice, but as much information that’s come out on him, and for him to always work his way through it all …”

Mark Levin, NFLPA director of salary cap and agent administration (two votes)

• “He’s basically daddy to all agents.”

Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk (two votes)

• “Everybody in the league goes to his site every day. His opinion, whether right or wrong, is read. He has a press conference every day. This choice goes beyond Florio. It’s about media overall deserving more respect from the league.”

• “Nobody would admit it, but everybody in the league is hitting that site 15 times a day. … He has an agenda at times, but he really hits the mark a lot of times, and I think he influences people.”

Others: Adam Schefter (ESPN), Jay Glazer (Fox Sports), JC Tretter (NFLPA president)

• “There’s a lot of deals that are done through the media. (Schefter) having relationships on both the team and the agent side (means) being able to put out whatever narrative you’re choosing to.”

• “Mike McCarthy doesn’t get hired by the Cowboys without Jay Glazer. Ryan Pace doesn’t get hired by the Bears without Jay Glazer. There’s a ton like this. He’s got pull with a lot of people.”

8. Among GMs and front-office leaders, who is the best talent evaluator?

Colts GM Chris Ballard (six votes)

• “He understands the players, he understands fit, his coaching staff and team culture.”

• “Ballard is phenomenal.”

Bills GM Brandon Beane (four votes)

• “Looking at the way they’ve improved under his tutelage, I think I’d put him at the top.”

Buccaneers GM Jason Licht (two votes)

• “You like a guy who was a scout like Ballard. He gets it. But it’s hard to put him first when he hasn’t won a Super Bowl. Licht has, and the Bucs hit on a lot of their picks.”

Broncos GM George Paton (two votes)

• “I’ve had players on George’s teams dating back to Minnesota. Based on conversations we’ve had about player development and talent acquisition, he’s always been someone that I’ve really truly respected.”

Others: Bills pro personnel director Malik Boyd, Texans GM Nick Caserio, Ravens GM Eric DeCosta, Jets GM Joe Douglas, Panthers GM Scott Fitterer, Jets assistant GM Rex Hogan, former Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome, 49ers assistant GM Adam Peters, Seahawks GM John Schneider, Giants GM Joe Schoen, Rams GM Les Snead, Chiefs GM Brett Veach

(Note: Ballard has received the most votes in this category in all four years we have conducted this survey. Paton was second with four votes last year.)

9. Among GMs and front-office leaders, whom do you trust the most?

Bills GM Brandon Beane (four votes)

Browns GM Andrew Berry (three votes)

• “I don’t always agree with him — or he doesn’t always agree with me — but he’s direct, and I trust him.”

Broncos GM George Paton (three votes)

• “If he says something, 99 percent of the time he actually does it, or if he doesn’t do it, he’s got a good reason why.”

• “Does a great job. Very honest. You always know where you stand with him. You may not like what you hear, but you’re going to hear the truth, and that’s all you ask for as an agent. John Schneider and Chris Ballard are the same, but George is best at communicating.”

Ravens GM Eric DeCosta (two votes)

Others: Ballard, Belichick, Boyd, Caserio, Fitterer, Cowboys college scouting coordinator Chris Hall, Raiders director of pro personnel Dwyane Joseph, Steelers GM Omar Khan, Titans GM Jon Robinson, Eagles GM Howie Roseman, Schneider, Rams GM Les Snead, Patriots director of scouting Eliot Wolf

• “No one. The team’s the enemy. They don’t care about us. We don’t care about them.”

(Note: Paton was first with 3.5 votes in this category last year. Berry also received three votes last year.)

10. Among GMs or front-office leaders, whom do you trust the least?

Eagles GM Howie Roseman (four votes)

• “I don’t trust what comes out of his mouth because he lied to me.”

• “I don’t think he’s very transparent. He kind of tells you what you think you want to hear. He does the same thing with the players.”

Jets front office (four votes)

• “I trust them the least, but (GM) Joe Douglas I actually trust as a man. There’s a lot of s— going on in that building, whether it’s (senior director, football administration) Dave Socie or their f—— ownership.”

• “Joe Douglas because he just doesn’t communicate. Just does not communicate at all.”

Jaguars GM Trent Baalke (two votes)

Others: Former Giants GM Dave Gettleman, Dolphins GM Chris Grier, Cardinals GM Steve Keim, Licht, Saints GM Mickey Loomis, 49ers GM John Lynch, Commanders GM Martin Mayhew, Ravens organization, Snead, Panthers VP of football administration Samir Suliman, Texans organization

(Note: Roseman also had the most votes in this category last year with seven. Douglas was third with three.)

11. Who is a future GM to watch?

Adam Peters, 49ers assistant GM (four votes)

• “He’s well overdue to be a GM. I just think he’s the best evaluator out there. I think there’s a few teams right now … that are really kicking themselves for not hiring him a couple of years ago.”

Panthers assistant GM Dan Morgan (two votes)

Others: Falcons area scout Tokunbo Abanikanda, Dolphins assistant GM Marvin Allen, Boyd, Browns VP of player personnel Glenn Cook, Buccaneers director of football research Jacqueline Davidson, Giants national scout Mike Derice, Lions COO Mike Disner, Colts assistant GM Ed Dodds, 49ers scout RJ Gillen, Cardinals director of player personnel Dru Grigson, Packers director of football operations Milt Hendrickson, Hogan, Eagles director of scouting Brandon Hunt, Raiders assistant GM Champ Kelly, Seahawks VP of player personnel Trent Kirchner, Cowboys VP of player personnel Will McClay, Buccaneers VP of player personnel John Spytek, Seahawks director of pro personnel Nolan Teasley, Eagles director of player personnel Charles Walls

• “I know that the Joneses treat (McClay) really well, and has the de facto GM feel in the building. If he ever wanted a GM job, he would be right at the very top of the list.

• “(Davidson) is as knowledgeable about football as anybody in the league and has a dynamic personality.”

(Note: Peters and Joe Schoen were among several who shared the lead in this category last year with two votes. Schoen was named Giants GM in January.)

12. What do you make of the wide receiver market exploding this offseason?

• “I’ve never seen a position get so hot and just blow up the way that the wide receiver market did. Unprecedented. Just remarkable.”

• “Business is booming. I’m not surprised by it. The rules are so conducive to points being scored.”

• “Guys like Chris Godwin and Mike Williams were entering free agency. Then you couldn’t have them making more than these other players, so these top receivers redid their deals, whether it was Tyreek or Cooper Kupp. You had a lot of young superstars (A.J. Brown, Terry McLaurin, etc.) who were up for contract extensions. Then you had a number of players with either a year or two years left, like Stefon Diggs, that redid their deals because of the evolving market. It was a perfect storm.”

• “Typical overreaction by the league. Paying some of these receivers as much as quarterbacks is crazy to me.”

• “The thing that has struck me the most were the three-year deals. It’s the way you should renegotiate contracts. I think any that’s longer than three years is just a paper contract anyway. Smart deals on both sides.”

• “Christian Kirk and Jacksonville started it.”

• “If Kirk got $72 million, will Ja’Marr Chase get $250 million?”

13. What will be the next position market to take off?

Tight end (seven votes)

• “You’ve seen the market creep up for Austin Hooper, George Kittle, Mark Andrews and now David Njoku. They’re all running through the gates. Then you have young talent like Dalton Schultz, Mike Gesicki, Kyle Pitts that are just going to continue to push that market up. I think teams are really recognizing that when you have a tight end, you create a mismatch in the passing game.”

• “Teams are absolutely taking advantage of the franchise tag. Gesicki is as lethal as many of these other wide receivers that are getting paid. He’s one of the tight ends that are stretching the field, and challenging the defense, play in and play out.”

Cornerback (six votes)

• “You can’t say, ‘Hey, go shut down that $25 million receiver while you’re making $13 million as our eraser.’”

• “The corner market is underpaid. It takes people to reset the market that are good players, but not necessarily first-ballot Hall of Fame players.”

Quarterback (five votes)

• “I think that the days of being able to get a quarterback at $30-35 million a year has gone the route of the dodo bird. Kyler getting $37 million AAV — it’s not the reported $46 million — despite having never won a playoff game means every top-15 quarterback is getting $40 million AAV. I think $50 million is very close to becoming a reality with a couple hundred million guaranteed once this next round of TV, Sunday Ticket and streamer money kicks in.”

• “You’re gonna start seeing more of the contracts guaranteed.”

Edge rusher (three votes)

• “I do think (49ers DE) Nick Bosa will top the $30 million mark for pass rushers. I think that’s 100 percent happening.”

Safety (two votes)

• “Unless you got a linebacker that can run, rush the passer or cover really well, linebackers are gonna be completely devalued even more than they have been. Same with running backs in favor of receivers. More defensive backs on the field, so safeties will play more like middle linebackers.”

Others: Running back, interior DL, linebacker

14. What’s your biggest challenge at this point in your career?

(Note: More than half of the respondents selected NIL, and 16 picked some form of recruiting clients)

• “NIL. There’s just no rules. They let the toothpaste out of the tube without any regulation. Anyone can say they’re an NIL agent. I think that most legitimate agencies and agents are actually helping these kids and doing their best to help them make money and take care of them. The problem is you’re seeing a lot of unqualified people that are out there taking advantage of these young men. These young men aren’t being educated by their universities or by anyone to know the difference between someone who’s actually there to help them and someone who doesn’t know s— from Cheyenne.”

• “Figuring out when to recruit and develop a relationship. I don’t know too many agents who want to recruit college or high school kids for three to four years. That’s a lot of time to build a relationship — and it’s a lot of time to make a mistake.”

• “Evaluating opportunities as the margins have gotten smaller, but the cost of player acquisition has gotten bigger. Being able to analyze what’s a good deal, and what’s a safe deal for you to put out there. So much risk now.”

• “You have players coming out of college that are not making the decisions based on who the best representation is, but what’s the best package that they receive. That’s really a very short-sighted decision. You’re hiring someone or an agency to represent you and be a critical part of not just your rookie contract, but be part of your development and life and career on and off the field.”


• “This f—— narrative (they tell prospects) that you’ve got to go with a quarterback agent, because, ‘We’ve got a bunch of quarterbacks.’ It’s such bulls—, but they push that and quarterbacks are like pack animals and they buy into that.”

• “My answer is going to be different as a woman, but the biggest challenge as an agent is balancing family. Being a top agent, having a lot of players and wanting to also be a good wife, and maybe a potential mom one day, that’s the hard thing for me.”

• “I hate to make it about race, but I find that it’s harder for me as a Black agent or for a minority-based agency to have a fair opportunity to represent white players or players of other races. You rarely see white players sign with Black agents. I wish it was more of an even playing field.”

• “The money that the big agencies are willing to lose. They give away so much freebies, not charging guys on the first contract. It’s really awful for boutique agencies like mine to compete.”

Stuff I want to call out:

* The idea of college football's NIL not only affecting college football, but entry into the league, and especially becoming the agent for a player.

* Calling out the league for not holding Snyder more accountable. This is something I didn't fully think about and I'm kicking myself for it. Snyder sitting out in the ocean to avoid being served may be "legal" and not something that can be stopped, but the league sure as sh*t could have held him accountable for that behavior and provided some very compelling reasons to get the f**k off the boat.

* The Lamar no-agent stuff really stood out, especially talking about how it goes back to his entrance into the league. It's makes me start to consider that maybe some of the noise around Lamar (being asked to do WR stuff during the draft process, etc) is because of the fact that there was no agent squashing those things before they got started. Some of those things maybe weren't exclusive to Lamar, but became an issue because Lamar removed one of the filters that normally exist in the process. I mean, I get that agents aren't going to have a charitable perspective on a player eschewing them to do the job himself, but they might have more than a few points here.

* Multiple agents saying everyone in the league reads PFT, whether they like Florio or not, and whether they'll admit to reading it or not.

* Some calling out of the Christian Kirk deal in the WR part, but I think the guy that called the WR market a "perfect storm" situation because of how many WR deals just happened to end up getting signed on top of each other this offseason has a point. The Kirk deal played a role, but it was the Hopkins deal setting the mark at $27.25m/yr back in 2020 which raised the bar, not Kirk's $18m/yr deal signed two years later (and now ranked 18th at the position). The Hopkins deal was gonna anchor the WR market upward regardless of Kirk.

* Adam Peters getting the most notice as a future GM. I have lived in fear of Peters leaving the Niners to become GM. I don't know how it hasn't happened yet. I've said (here, multiple times) that I want John Lynch to be "promoted" to an Executive VP type role and Peters made into the GM. I wonder if there's a handshake agreement for something like that already in place, because I can't explain his lack of ascendancy to someone else's GM role. (Also, one of the scouts on Peters' staff getting his own shout out in the future GM watch)

*Legion* wrote:


Since the Lions just signed Sudfeld after the Niners cut him, $1.035M of the $2M he got guaranteed from the Niners now belongs to the Lions cap.

So drop that Niners QB number down to $17.865M.

Yo Legion: Your boy Arron Mosby didn't make the 53 in Carolina, but he cleared waivers and made the Panthers' practice squad.

Jefferson and Reagor on the same team now. Kinda funny. Though I'm a bit confused how the iggles got anything more than a 7th for him.

Enix wrote:

Yo Legion: Your boy Arron Mosby didn't make the 53 in Carolina, but he cleared waivers and made the Panthers' practice squad.


Even Rhule knew you don't let Fresno State talent get away completely.

The same fate awaited my Niners boy, Jason Poe. That one was more surprising, but I expect he'll be deep in the competition for guard spots next offseason.

Remember like a day ago when the Jaguars had two kickers that they claimed off waivers? Those guys are both gone now.

They've claimed a new kicker, Riley Patterson, who lost the battle in Lions camp with veteran Austin Seibert.

Will Patterson be the survivor? Will the churn continue? Will the Jags eventually go far enough down the list to get to Aguayo?

Stay tuned for more about the NFL's least consequential positional battle!

ukickmydog wrote:

Jefferson and Reagor on the same team now. Kinda funny. Though I'm a bit confused how the iggles got anything more than a 7th for him.

I will never understand how the team that drafted Nelson Agholor looked at a Nelson Agholor clone prospect and thought, "it's gonna work out this time",

*Legion* wrote:
ukickmydog wrote:

Jefferson and Reagor on the same team now. Kinda funny. Though I'm a bit confused how the iggles got anything more than a 7th for him.

I will never understand how the team that drafted Nelson Agholor looked at a Nelson Agholor clone prospect and thought, "it's gonna work out this time",

Hard for me to think of a similar example with a different team and different position.


Aaron Donald basically went "We talkin' about practice" in regards to the helmet swinging.

Extension for Russell Wilson: 5 years, TWO HUNDRED AND FORTY FIVE MILLION DOLLARS. Wow.

Russ can now buy Sub Zero and Viking* everything for that kitchen he's cooking in.

(* I don't really know anything about kitchen stuff and besides he probably has it all already)

Pink Stripes wrote:

And then there's the cherry-picking of stats and value judgements. Sony Michel "lost college burst" (?) but he had two 900+ yd seasons, broke the record for most playoff rushing TDs for a rookie, and scored a Super Bowl-winning TD. And then the Patriots managed to get some late picks for change, while he went on to play decently for another team and won another ring. And at this point he has comfortably exceeded the average career of a RB. But yeah, sure, let's call him a bust.

He wasn't a bust but he never lived up to first round potential and that was a question that was out there at the time of the pick. Harris has already proven to be more versatile and Stevenson looks like he will be too.

Being a Pats fan the Winovich one annoyed me. I know he was solely an edge rusher but he was good at it when on the field. Also, that was pretty much what we were sold during the draft. I think Bill just didn't like him for one reason or another.

Rat Boy wrote:

Aaron Donald basically went "We talkin' about practice" in regards to the helmet swinging.


Hey Darnold goes to IR... That's the problem of having so many QBs to choose from, you have to make room in the roster somehow.

I've always liked the Ravens' color scheme, logo, and knowing it came from the poem The Raven, but knowing now the mascot is named "Poe" makes me like them even more. Always loved me some Edgar Allan Poe.

Folks here in Baltimore are calling him a hero for eating up a significant chunk of the Ravens' bad injury luck.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

I will never understand how the team that drafted Nelson Agholor looked at a Nelson Agholor clone prospect and thought, "it's gonna work out this time",

Hard for me to think of a similar example with a different team and different position.


I'm not sure I'd draw that as quite the same comparison. Bortles and Gabs were both trash, but they weren't particularly similar as prospects (other than being tall white boys that ended up being bad at NFL-level football).

Gabbert was a pure spread QB. He had a tight, compact throwing motion that scouts liked. Mechanics were polished, but he was pretty much a one-read and throw QB in the Mizzou system, so concerns about being a "system QB" were always present in his scouting reports. He had plenty of body weight, but he was never a tackle-breaking play extender or scrambler type.

Bortles came from a pro-style offense and was compared to a guy like Roethlisberger. Big body, big arm, downfield throws. Tackle-breaking and play extending ability were a huge part of that comparison, and he ran for more yards in his first 2 seasons than Gabs did his entire career. Mechanics were... questionable at best. Far from Gabbert's refined throwing motion, Bork's was sloppy. His footwork was sloppy. It was all slop that some scouts were convinced he could be coached out of.

Gabbert back then and still today was a much more refined mechanical QB, and that's why he's had a long backup career, while Bortles' disappeared nearly as fast as his hairline. Of course, the decision making that Gabs was never required to do in the Mizzou spread never developed sufficiently at the NFL level to be a quality starter.

Reagor and Agholor, though? Very similar prospects. I mean I called that one out on draft day.


The Tua hype is wild.

Either he’s a top-10 QB by year end or he’s benched by week 4. I lean towards the latter just because Tyreek is such an absolute ass hole clown

I mean, they didn't go chase down Teddy Bridgewater in the early stages of free agency (and throw high backup money at him) because of their strong faith in Tua.

That said, I feel like Tua is going to have a fairly long leash this year, unless they find themselves in a situation where the team as a whole is playing competitively, but the QB position is dragging them down. Teddy can absolutely play the Garoppolo role in McDaniel's Shanahan-derived offense.

If Tua is playing poorly but the entire team is kinda meh too, though, I feel like they'll play out the year with him just to see if the upside ever materializes, before dipping into the next draft class for a QB.

Harbaugh announcing that Poe "sustained a serious injury to his drumstick" and that the team would be "evaluating options going forward" was the best part of the presser.


Is this an injury to the person in the costume or a fake injury to the mascot himself?

Are things that boring for the Ravens that they got to do a WWE plot with their mascot?