Thanks EvilDead! Am I right that if I did that, I could revert just by swapping the OS drives?
I don't actually swap any drives, I just have a bunch of image files that I have backed up on an external SSD (double backed up to Synology). If I want to revert to one of those I just use my imaging / cloning program and restore it from the SSD. It only takes a couple minutes. I could restore directly from the Synology but that could take 10s of minutes and I have no patience for that!
Planning out a build. Looking full ATX board and probably a mid-tower case. I don't care about all the RGB craziness that seems to be the thing these days as it reminds me of the old low rider neon stuff. But I'm probably just to old to get it. Not opposed to some if it's included, but don't factor into my decision.
Been a minute since I've built something.
Some wish list things:
- USBC on front port, would like a couple of USB3/3.2 type A's as well
- Good cooling without excess noise. Bonus if cases these days can use PWM fans to ramp up or down with temps
- Going to air cool with a dual fan tower cooler (Thermalright Phantom Spirit SE that I picked up on the Prime sale as I've started collecting parts)
- Sub $150, and probably in the $100 range spend. Don't see the need for a crazy case with all the lights
- Don't care about glass side panels, but will accept
- Ability to run at least a couple of 3.5" drives. Don't know that I'll use them for the life of the PC, but I've got some media that needs to move into the new build. Might eventual move to a NAS or other server
Options already on radar, but feedback on even these would be nice:
- Corsair 4000D Airflow (Currently $85 after coupon at Amazon)
- Lian Li 215 or 216
- Cooler Master TD500 Mesh V2
I've started going down the youtube rabbit hole, but experienced feedback would be nice, too.
I can vouch for the Lian Li 216. Its a great case, super easy to build with, the dual 160MM fans in front keep it cool and quiet. Comes with more than enough room for 2x 3.5" drives. As it has a mesh top, it's really designed for watercooling, but if you put a couple of exhausts up there (and you probably should to exhaust out the air coming in from the front), you'll solve that problem. It comes with a simple RGB/Fan controller so the 3 included fans really only need to take one PWM from your motherboard, though you could of course not use that and split it up.
Cable management super easy and clean, the only thing you see out the window is the GPU power and the tubes from the radiator. Everything else fits very easily between the motherboard and the back panel with lots of cable guides and cable grommets
RGB is unnecessary, but it's probably easier to find one that comes with the 160MM RGB fans than without. Any modern motherboard will let you turn them off if they offend you, but something nice about seeing blue and gold alternating lighting 
I can vouch for the Lian Li 216. Its a great case, super easy to build with, the dual 160MM fans in front keep it cool and quiet. Comes with more than enough room for 2x 3.5" drives. As it has a mesh top, it's really designed for watercooling, but if you put a couple of exhausts up there (and you probably should to exhaust out the air coming in from the front), you'll solve that problem. It comes with a simple RGB/Fan controller so the 3 included fans really only need to take one PWM from your motherboard, though you could of course not use that and split it up.
Cable management super easy and clean, the only thing you see out the window is the GPU power and the tubes from the radiator. Everything else fits very easily between the motherboard and the back panel with lots of cable guides and cable grommets
RGB is unnecessary, but it's probably easier to find one that comes with the 160MM RGB fans than without. Any modern motherboard will let you turn them off if they offend you, but something nice about seeing blue and gold alternating lighting :)
Thanks for the feedback. I do like what I've seen on those.
Planning out a build. Looking full ATX board and probably a mid-tower case. I don't care about all the RGB craziness that seems to be the thing these days as it reminds me of the old low rider neon stuff. But I'm probably just to old to get it. Not opposed to some if it's included, but don't factor into my decision.
Been a minute since I've built something.
Some wish list things:
- USBC on front port, would like a couple of USB3/3.2 type A's as well
- Good cooling without excess noise. Bonus if cases these days can use PWM fans to ramp up or down with temps
- Going to air cool with a dual fan tower cooler (Thermalright Phantom Spirit SE that I picked up on the Prime sale as I've started collecting parts)
- Sub $150, and probably in the $100 range spend. Don't see the need for a crazy case with all the lights
- Don't care about glass side panels, but will accept
- Ability to run at least a couple of 3.5" drives. Don't know that I'll use them for the life of the PC, but I've got some media that needs to move into the new build. Might eventual move to a NAS or other server
Options already on radar, but feedback on even these would be nice:
- Corsair 4000D Airflow (Currently $85 after coupon at Amazon)
- Lian Li 215 or 216
- Cooler Master TD500 Mesh V2
I've started going down the youtube rabbit hole, but experienced feedback would be nice, too.
The Lian Li O11 Air Mini is in your range.
Possible cons for you: It has the ports up top and has a single glass panel, but I run no RGB BS in mine and it's far from looking like a damn aquarium.
The mesh of the case is businesslike and does wonders with filtering. When it's dirty I loosen the top (two thumbscrews) lift off the front, rinse it off, dry it, and put it back on. There's a dedicated 3.5" drive cage, three more spots for 3.5"/2.5" drives, and two spots for more 2.5" drives (six drives total not including m.2).
I'm a fan of functional, no-nonsense, and easy to build in. I love this case.
The Lian Li O11 Air Mini is in your range.
Possible cons for you: It has the ports up top and has a single glass panel, but I run no RGB BS in mine and it's far from looking like a damn aquarium.
The mesh of the case is businesslike and does wonders with filtering. When it's dirty I loosen the top (two thumbscrews) lift off the front, rinse it off, dry it, and put it back on. There's a dedicated 3.5" drive cage, three more spots for 3.5"/2.5" drives, and two spots for more 2.5" drives (six drives total not including m.2).
I'm a fan of functional, no-nonsense, and easy to build in. I love this case.
That one is now on my radar. Hadn't looked at this one before. Thanks.
EDIT: Hah, I had watched a video on that one but had forgotten it. It was in my youtube history. Too many options.
I'm finding that you really don't save money avoiding LED stuff while putting this PC together. It's just there in everything these days. Even the memory I think I'll order (if no better sales pop up this week) has LED's (Teamforce 6000 CL30 sticks).
Here's what I've got either on the way, already owned, or likely purchasing. I'm still trying to decide on the B650 motherboard. Looking for a mid-range ATX board with good high speed USB support connectivity, good audio, and a good layout for slots, even though I'm not sure that matters with everything but graphics built in. Leaning toward either the MSI Mag B650 Tomahawk or the Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite AX.
Any experience with either? I like that the MSI has a USBC 3.2 2x2 (20Gbps) port. The Gigabyte is slightly cheaper with some PCIe Gen 5 functionality that likely doesn't matter right now.
I'll wait until later in the week to order memory and a MB most likely unless stock looks low.
Still trying to decide whether or not to flip my new in box Corsair RM850x PSU that I bought a couple of years ago as a possible repair part for my current system for a more updated one. The zero RPM fan functionality on some of them sounds nice to pair with the ATX 3.0 spec, but in reality, I don't know that a 7800XT really needs that ATX3.0 12v stuff at all, so I probably should just quit nitpicking. But I'm not likely to build down to the power supply level for years, so another $40 net difference after selling the other one is really nothing, but there is hassle in ebaying something.
-------------Random Thought---------------
When are motherboards going to move to relying more on USBC vs all the USB A ports? Laptops have been doing it for several years now and the USB A will eventually be the one where all the adapters will be required. I guess peripherals will drive that. I found some PS2 to USB keyboard/mice adapters the other day when looking through my PC parts boxes. Got me thinking about it. It's much easier to deal with m.2/2.5" SSD drive enclosures just using the USBC cables vs the ones with the weird other types that tie to USBA cables. I assume it's the power requirements. But the double USBC cable means I can plug it into my phone, my Steam Deck, etc.
Looking for a new desktop for the first time since 2014, and I'm not sure whether to build one piece by piece (like back then), or to just spend a crapload of money on an Alienware machine. I have to admit, the terms y'all are slinging may as well be a foreign language, especially with motherboards. I'm looking to spend $2k-2500, but that might be unrealistic, as I remember stories about video cards going for nearly that much.
Looking for a new desktop for the first time since 2014, and I'm not sure whether to build one piece by piece (like back then), or to just spend a crapload of money on an Alienware machine. I have to admit, the terms y'all are slinging may as well be a foreign language, especially with motherboards. I'm looking to spend $2k-2500, but that might be unrealistic, as I remember stories about video cards going for nearly that much.
That price will get you a hell of a machine these days. What's different than when I built my old 2700K machine is the CPU's are the cheaper and less important side of the equation vs the GPU. An AMD 7800x3D for the CPU will do whatever you need for gaming at $370 right now.
I'm building targeting 1440p and I'm looking at around $1600 without monitor or peripherals. And that's more drives than you need included to get it there. For $2000+, you can target 4K monitors.
There are a gazillion youtube channels out there walking through modern builds if you want to go that route. Building PC's has gotten a lot easier since I started building them back in the days where we worried about IRQ settings and himem.sys files
Looking for a new desktop for the first time since 2014, and I'm not sure whether to build one piece by piece (like back then), or to just spend a crapload of money on an Alienware machine. I have to admit, the terms y'all are slinging may as well be a foreign language, especially with motherboards. I'm looking to spend $2k-2500, but that might be unrealistic, as I remember stories about video cards going for nearly that much.
I have an NZXT case that I really like. I just checked their website and I see that they're selling fully configured gaming PCs as well. It might be worth checking them out.
I just realized that I put together my current PC in late 2019, just before covid hit. I'm starting to get the itch for a full upgrade.
It's kind of strange how I'm increasingly using late 2019/early 2020 as an anchor point for describing things in the past. It's sort of like what happened with 9/11 as well. Things are pre or post and the circumstances of the world are different in either direction.
sometimesdee wrote:Looking for a new desktop for the first time since 2014, and I'm not sure whether to build one piece by piece (like back then), or to just spend a crapload of money on an Alienware machine. I have to admit, the terms y'all are slinging may as well be a foreign language, especially with motherboards. I'm looking to spend $2k-2500, but that might be unrealistic, as I remember stories about video cards going for nearly that much.
I have an NZXT case that I really like. I just checked their website and I see that they're selling fully configured gaming PCs as well. It might be worth checking them out.
I just realized that I put together my current PC in late 2019, just before covid hit. I'm starting to get the itch for a full upgrade.
It's kind of strange how I'm increasingly using late 2019/early 2020 as an anchor point for describing things in the past. It's sort of like what happened with 9/11 as well. Things are pre or post and the circumstances of the world are different in either direction.
Yeah, that site's dangerous. I've almost pulled the trigger on the Player Three Prime twice in the past two hours, only with the following pimped out specs:
CPU
Intel® Core™ i9-14900KF
GPU
NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 4090
Memory
64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR5 6000MHz
Motherboard
Z790
Storage
3TB NVMe M.2 SSD
PSU
1000W Gold
+ the fan upgrade
That's $3800, and way too much money, but then again, I probably wouldn't need to upgrade for another 10 years, right? (insert Amidala meme)
polq37 wrote:sometimesdee wrote:Looking for a new desktop for the first time since 2014, and I'm not sure whether to build one piece by piece (like back then), or to just spend a crapload of money on an Alienware machine. I have to admit, the terms y'all are slinging may as well be a foreign language, especially with motherboards. I'm looking to spend $2k-2500, but that might be unrealistic, as I remember stories about video cards going for nearly that much.
I have an NZXT case that I really like. I just checked their website and I see that they're selling fully configured gaming PCs as well. It might be worth checking them out.
I just realized that I put together my current PC in late 2019, just before covid hit. I'm starting to get the itch for a full upgrade.
It's kind of strange how I'm increasingly using late 2019/early 2020 as an anchor point for describing things in the past. It's sort of like what happened with 9/11 as well. Things are pre or post and the circumstances of the world are different in either direction.
Yeah, that site's dangerous. I've almost pulled the trigger on the Player Three Prime twice in the past two hours, only with the following pimped out specs:
CPU
Intel® Core™ i9-14900KF
GPU
NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 4090
Memory
64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR5 6000MHz
Motherboard
Z790
Storage
3TB NVMe M.2 SSD
PSU
1000W Gold
+ the fan upgradeThat's $3800, and way too much money, but then again, I probably wouldn't need to upgrade for another 10 years, right? (insert Amidala meme)
What's your goal with the system? Target resolution, types of games played, other tasks it will do, streaming, etc? Those all drive what you need.
But hey, if you buy a 4090 series, you're PC won't be able to ever visit China! 
Target resolution? I have a 4k monitor already, so that would be my target resolution, I guess. I dabble in FF14, but mostly play on my SteamDeck nowadays. My kids play some intense games that stress out their newer machines, and they often ask me to play along, which is contributing to my GPU anxiety. I haven't streamed in a while, but don't want to rule it out. I'm aware I don't need all this stuff right now, but as I said, I'd also like to not have to worry about being behind the 8-ball in a year or two.
That's $3800, and way too much money, but then again, I probably wouldn't need to upgrade for another 10 years, right? (insert Amidala meme)
If you want a setup to last 10 years, you will get much further spending $2000 now and $2000 five years from now than you can by spending $4000 now.
Especially considering you could take that same system and get a much more sensible $400-500 gpu and be sitting at just above your current budget. ($2600-2700)
I guess I don't know what a "more sensible" gpu is nowadays.
It really comes down to what sort of games you want to play. If you want to play Cyberpunk in full RTX glory at 4K at 60+ FPS, what you posted will do the trick.
Like others are saying.. I don't think there's any PC that will last 10 years if you want to always be playing the latest and greatest at high resolutions and framerates. I have what was a top of the line PC that I bought in 2017, and upgraded it a few times (more memory, more SSDs), and while it plays 80% of the games I play at 1440p at a good FPS, I wanted to play all the games at full fx and top fps, so I went ahead and upgraded to something just a few steps below what you posted (CPU and GPU are one tier below your link).
It really comes down to what sort of games you want to play. If you want to play Cyberpunk in full RTX glory at 4K at 60+ FPS, what you posted will do the trick.
Like others are saying.. I don't think there's any PC that will last 10 years if you want to always be playing the latest and greatest at high resolutions and framerates. I have what was a top of the line PC that I bought in 2017, and upgraded it a few times (more memory, more SSDs), and while it plays 80% of the games I play at 1440p at a good FPS, I wanted to play all the games at full fx and top fps, so I went ahead and upgraded to something just a few steps below what you posted (CPU and GPU are one tier below your link).
I hate not being able to articulate correctly. I'm aware there's no computer in 2023 that's going to be able to handle the best games in 2033. I wasn't expecting my 2014 machine to last as long as it did, tbh. But I remember building my computer back then, and immediately regretting not getting a better GPU at the time. And a few years later, I bought my son what I thought was a decent enough desktop, but it can't even handle most Minecraft mods, and I guess I'm just super insecure. I probably need therapy more than I need hardware advice at this point.
I think if you went with an AMD 7800x3d CPU ($400 or less on sale right now), a $200 B650 motherboard, and either a 7900XTX AMD GPU or an Nvidia 4080, you'd have a really, really powerful machine.
I'm building a 7800x3D+7800XT system to target 1440p with room to grow with a graphics update in a couple of cycles.
If you do more productivity type work, go Intel for the CPU, but most stuff is GPU limited these days for gaming so I'm going to the cheaper and less power hungry AMD this time.
I just noticed in that prebuilt list a 3TB m.2 drive. In my shopping I've never come across one in 3TB. Generally 1TB, 2TB, and 4TB models. Weird.
Therapy is important but a good computer is just more cost-effective.
I guess I don't know what a "more sensible" gpu is nowadays.
Let's put it this way. A 4080 is going to cost you around $1200, and a 4090 will cost about double that.
The 4090 is roughly 20-30% faster than the 4080.
The x090 cards are what used to be the "Titan" cards - a separate class intended for the workstation/HEDT crowd, where people can spend a bunch extra just to have the "very best", even though the extra performance is nowhere near the cost difference.
Given your expectations and budget, you're going to want to look at the x080 (NVIDIA) or x900 (AMD) classes cards, with the "x" being whatever number is the current gen at that time you're buying. Those represent the high-end cards within the normal consumer range. So long as NVIDIA and AMD stick with their current naming schemes, that rule of thumb should steer you in the right direction. Then you'll just need to take note of if there are any Ti/XTX/SUPER/etc variants within the class, and decide how high or low you want to go within that class.
Of note is that the 7900 XTX is equivalent to the $1200 4080 (tradeoffs for each) but it is only $900.
I will eat a ton of crow if the 7900 XTX does not last 5 years before it becomes a middle of the road gpu.
And that is conservative since no one is going to be gaming at 8K like ever unless its 4k per eye VR.
And the 7800 XT is the upper end of the $400-500 class gpu. It probably has only 3 years before it becomes a middle of the road gpu. But it will be a LONG time before those middle of the road gpus become minimum required spec.
Therapy is important but a good computer is just more cost-effective.
sometimesdee wrote:I guess I don't know what a "more sensible" gpu is nowadays.
Let's put it this way. A 4080 is going to cost you around $1200, and a 4090 will cost about double that.
The 4090 is roughly 20-30% faster than the 4080.
The x090 cards are what used to be the "Titan" cards - a separate class intended for the workstation/HEDT crowd, where people can spend a bunch extra just to have the "very best", even though the extra performance is nowhere near the cost difference.
Given your expectations and budget, you're going to want to look at the x080 (NVIDIA) or x900 (AMD) classes cards, with the "x" being whatever number is the current gen at that time you're buying. Those represent the high-end cards within the normal consumer range. So long as NVIDIA and AMD stick with their current naming schemes, that rule of thumb should steer you in the right direction. Then you'll just need to take note of if there are any Ti/XTX/SUPER/etc variants within the class, and decide how high or low you want to go within that class.
Thank you! That explanation makes so much sense.
I've come up with this so far, because for some reason, the site craps out on me whenever I try to make an AMD build.
*Legion* wrote:Therapy is important but a good computer is just more cost-effective.
sometimesdee wrote:I guess I don't know what a "more sensible" gpu is nowadays.
Let's put it this way. A 4080 is going to cost you around $1200, and a 4090 will cost about double that.
The 4090 is roughly 20-30% faster than the 4080.
The x090 cards are what used to be the "Titan" cards - a separate class intended for the workstation/HEDT crowd, where people can spend a bunch extra just to have the "very best", even though the extra performance is nowhere near the cost difference.
Given your expectations and budget, you're going to want to look at the x080 (NVIDIA) or x900 (AMD) classes cards, with the "x" being whatever number is the current gen at that time you're buying. Those represent the high-end cards within the normal consumer range. So long as NVIDIA and AMD stick with their current naming schemes, that rule of thumb should steer you in the right direction. Then you'll just need to take note of if there are any Ti/XTX/SUPER/etc variants within the class, and decide how high or low you want to go within that class.
Thank you! That explanation makes so much sense.
I've come up with this so far, because for some reason, the site craps out on me whenever I try to make an AMD build.
Oh, and the 3TB drive from before was actually two drives.
Go to youtube and search for "$2000 Gaming PC Build" and you'll see a bunch of stuff. Only look at stuff released second half of this year and you'll get an idea of what hardware to look for and what the expected performance will be.
Then if you decide to build one, you'll also have plenty of walkthroughs for that, too.
Thing I'm getting from watching a few is about half the difficulty these days is radiator placement and how to control your crazy RGB setups. I just watched to see case builds mostly when I was picking out a case. I've built PC's since the 90's, and things just look much easier now than ever so if you've built before, I wouldn't be concerned about it now. People around here will help you with your parts list.
(I'm going air cooled, and while a lot of my parts may be RGB equipped, I really don't care much about them.)
Yah, you absolutely do not need liquid cooling. There are a few $35-50 fans that work really nicely in keeping your PC in the 40's when idling and no higher than the 60's when at load.
Yah, you absolutely do not need liquid cooling. There are a few $35-50 fans that work really nicely in keeping your PC in the 40's when idling and no higher than the 60's when at load.
I got a Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE for $$37.
Of note is that the 7900 XTX is equivalent to the $1200 4080 (tradeoffs for each) but it is only $900.
I will eat a ton of crow if the 7900 XTX does not last 5 years before it becomes a middle of the road gpu.
And that is conservative since no one is going to be gaming at 8K like ever unless its 4k per eye VR.And the 7800 XT is the upper end of the $400-500 class gpu. It probably has only 3 years before it becomes a middle of the road gpu. But it will be a LONG time before those middle of the road gpus become minimum required spec.
The only thing I would add to this is one big advantage Nvidia currently has over AMD is their upscaling technology. AMD has FS2 but in it's current state doesn't really hold a candle to what Nvidia is doing with DLSS. For someone who's building a PC to last a long time upscaling performance may come into play later when their hardware starts to get older.
Price error? 7800XT on Amazon for $299?
I just ordered even though I've got one inbound from Best Buy for $500 (minus $50 cash back from RetailMeNot).
Got a price watch notification from Honey and clicked so fast on the "buy now" button.
EDIT: Weird seller. Probably ignore. Didn't catch it wasn't Amazon.
Too bad. That would have been an absolute steal!
Too bad. That would have been an absolute steal!
Haven't decided what to do with my order. Cancel or stay on the ride and use Amazon's guarantee when it all falls apart?
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