NFL 2021: The Week 16 thread

UpToIsomorphism wrote:

Where is Thursday football?

garion333 wrote:

Zach Wilson has a higher PFF grade than Trevor Lawrence. Didn't expect that...

I donno, Wilson has something closer to a stable situation and a positive environment to learn. I think too often we throw rookies (and especially rookie QBs) into impossible situations and lament that they aren't good. See the last 22 years or so of my fandom.

For sure, but PFF irons out some of that with their grading and focuses on what the individual does. Neither of them have especially awful (or good) scores but I sorta expected Jesus to have a better score than Wilson based on what film I have seen.

I didn't expect either Jesus or Wilson to make the Pro Bowl this year or next, ya know?

garion333 wrote:
UpToIsomorphism wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Zach Wilson has a higher PFF grade than Trevor Lawrence. Didn't expect that...

I donno, Wilson has something closer to a stable situation and a positive environment to learn. I think too often we throw rookies (and especially rookie QBs) into impossible situations and lament that they aren't good. See the last 22 years or so of my fandom.

For sure, but PFF irons out some of that with their grading and focuses on what the individual does. Neither of them have especially awful (or good) scores but I sorta expected Jesus to have a better score than Wilson based on what film I have seen.

I didn't expect either Jesus or Wilson to make the Pro Bowl this year or next, ya know?

True, but also consider that the QBs development is dependent not just on the talent around him, but also his coaching, training, and the situations his team puts him in. There is no question that both these situations are terrible, with the Jags trash fire burning hotter (sorry Legion), but it is also no surprise that the rookie doing the best is the one being coached by Bill Belichick and Josh McDaniels, surrounded by veterans and professionals, and being put consistently in situations where he just has to play football and not try to turn around an actively sinking Titanic (sorry Legion).

Again, I have seen dozens of talented QBs fail in the same way that Wilson and Jesus have. It is completely predictable, so much so that if we were to randomly place the five first round QBs on the five teams that took them, I would expect the one that goes to the Pats to look best, regardless who it is.

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHuHkewXsAEBXwb?format=jpg&name=small)

garion333 wrote:

Zach Wilson has a higher PFF grade than Trevor Lawrence. Didn't expect that...

If you watch their evaluating all 32 2021 1st round players video from last week, though, you'll see they are significantly more confident in Trevor Lawrence going forward than they are in Zach Wilson.

Grades really are just an accumulation of per-play "good or bad" grades, which for young players lacks some context. Is that play a -1 because you made a standard rookie mental error, or because you exhibited a fundamental mechanics problem? Did you make an ill-advised throw into coverage because the defense threw an exotic combo coverage look at you that you've never seen before, or did you hit a linebacker with the ball as if you've never seen a standard Cover 2 shell?

The per-play grading really only covers the player's output on the play, and doesn't consider if the failures are standard growing pains or deeper issues.

That's why rookies often score low. Like Lamar Jackson's rookie year was 58.6, which is pretty much the same as Trevor's grade, yet following the season, PFF was writing articles hyping up Lamar going into his second year, because the grading doesn't really distinguish growing pains from Gabberting.

*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Zach Wilson has a higher PFF grade than Trevor Lawrence. Didn't expect that...

If you watch their evaluating all 32 2021 1st round players video from last week, though, you'll see they are significantly more confident in Trevor Lawrence going forward than they are in Zach Wilson.

Grades really are just an accumulation of per-play "good or bad" grades, which for young players lacks some context. Is that play a -1 because you made a standard rookie mental error, or because you exhibited a fundamental mechanics problem? Did you make an ill-advised throw into coverage because the defense threw an exotic combo coverage look at you that you've never seen before, or did you hit a linebacker with the ball as if you've never seen a standard Cover 2 shell?

The per-play grading really only covers the player's output on the play, and doesn't consider if the failures are standard growing pains or deeper issues.

I disagree. PFF is clearly saying that Wilson is leagues better than Lawrence. That two point margin is important!

Also, Mac Jones is gonna be in the HoF he's leagues better than them both.

garion333 wrote:

Also, Mac Jones is gonna be in the HoF he's leagues better than them both.

I mean I'm pretty sure we're all in agreement on MVP Jones. Drew Brees never needed to throw the ball far!

Damn

RIP. They should make him the cover of Madden '23.

Pink Stripes wrote:

RIP. They should make him the cover of Madden '23.

IMAGE(https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/madden/images/9/9d/John_Madden_Football_1988.jpg)

He should be on the cover every year.

And they should make it a good game again while they're at it.

I was about to say that they should not put his face on it until it is worthy of the name again.

The reaction by the Jags fan base to the Baalke news has become a story in local Jacksonville media:

Jaguars Twitter takes shots at ‘clown’ owner Shad Khan after Trent Baalke report.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/JpxN7ap.jpg)

Is it too early for draft scouting? Here's a video of the next great NFL fullback (who also dabbles at RT):

Unfortunately, it didn't happen against Fresno State.

They should have gone for 2 with the exact same play.

As the #KhlownOut Khan clown profile pic movement continues to gain notice:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/o5nUApd.png)

*Legion* wrote:

As the #KhlownOut Khan clown profile pic movement continues to gain notice:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/o5nUApd.png)

I'll raise you my Browns.

Would love to know how the Jaguars fans are "immensely powerful". They're going to mock a billionaire who clearly doesn't care, and not attend games, when it's not like they're at the top in attendance anyways. I mean, WFT fans have been staying away from that team in droves, and attendance has been consistently at the bottom in terms of percent of seats filled. It has changed literally nothing.

All onboard the "Baalke sucks" train, but I somehow think clown avatars on Twitter are maybe not really going to move the needle here.

IMAGE(https://www.gamerswithjobs.com/files/pictures/pictures/picture-10783.jpg)

hi i'm milkmandanimal i want to make damn sure those jaguar fans know their place and don't feel good about themselves for even a nanosecond stupid jag fans hey have you seen mr big chest's super bowl ring?

So . . . that's it? The breaking point? Trent Baalke is the breaking point, even after Gabbert and Bortles and "Myles Jack wasn't down" and everything else? It's Trent Baalke and clown avatars?

In like eight months you got Touchdown Jesus and watched Urban Meyer get fired in an utterly humiliating fashion! That's like two good things this year alone!

Pink Stripes wrote:

Enix, your prayers have been answered.

Cruel. I saw your link and thought for a moment they'd canned Matt Rhule.

Savage!

MilkmanDanimal wrote:
Pink Stripes wrote:

Enix, your prayers have been answered.

Cruel. I saw your link and thought for a moment they'd canned Matt Rhule.

Sorry, I forgot to add that God said no.

Pink Stripes wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:
Pink Stripes wrote:

Enix, your prayers have been answered.

Cruel. I saw your link and thought for a moment they'd canned Matt Rhule.

Sorry, I forgot to add that God said no.

I'm pretty sure that this is why I didn't pray for Cam to come back. Rhule says he doesn't want to embarrass anyone and, well.

I also know what I'm not doing at 4:25p Sunday.

Speaking of, lemme get to work on the Week WhateverItIs Thread.

Edit: WEEK 17

JT breaking down what is wrong with Baker

He got drafted by Cleveland. See the QB jersey picture of sadness

Bears repeating...

UpToIsomorphism wrote:

True, but also consider that the QBs development is dependent not just on the talent around him, but also his coaching, training, and the situations his team puts him in. There is no question that both these situations are terrible, with the Jags trash fire burning hotter (sorry Legion), but it is also no surprise that the rookie doing the best is the one being coached by Bill Belichick and Josh McDaniels, surrounded by veterans and professionals, and being put consistently in situations where he just has to play football and not try to turn around an actively sinking Titanic (sorry Legion).

Again, I have seen dozens of talented QBs fail in the same way that Wilson and Jesus have. It is completely predictable, so much so that if we were to randomly place the five first round QBs on the five teams that took them, I would expect the one that goes to the Pats to look best, regardless who it is.