NFL 2021: The Week 10 thread

ukickmydog wrote:

What happened to Mexico City?

I don't believe Mexico City is a viable, realistic option. It will always be on these lists, but I don't see it happening.

I would like to think the Philly, South Jersey, DE market could support a second team. Especially if they stuck it somewhere more interesting like along one of the rivers.

TheGameguru wrote:

I would like to think the Philly, South Jersey, DE market could support a second team.

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So all we need is the Niners to keep Garoppolo throwing from the shotgun, and bam, that should take care of our MVP question.

Well Louisville gets my vote obviously.

But seems more likely that baseball or basketball would be the first pro team. Because basketball crazy state and Louisville Slugger. Hell there's almost 40 NBA or GLeague players from colleges in state between Louisville, Kentucky, and Murray St (hey Ja Morant).

Stele wrote:

Well Louisville gets my vote obviously.

But seems more likely that baseball or basketball would be the first pro team. Because basketball crazy state and Louisville Slugger. Hell there's almost 40 NBA or GLeague players from colleges in state between Louisville, Kentucky, and Murray St (hey Ja Morant).

I can't imagine Cincy or Indi would be too happy with a team there.

Late to the 40-team NFL party (writing deadlines suck, btw), but the NFL will almost certainly look at expansion not by population but by TV markets (London and Mexico City aside; I have no idea what would drive expansion there except the notion that they're viable or not somehow).

Here's the Nielsen market sizes, ranked, for 2020.

Top two are NYC and LA, both of which have two teams each.

No. 3 is Chicago. It has two baseball teams, so there's precedent for doubling up in a sport.

Next three are Philadelphia, Dallas/Ft Worth and SF-Oakland-San Jose, fwiw.

Biggest TV market without an NFL team: No. 18 Orlando/Daytona Beach/Melbourne. Florida already has one NFL team (three if you count Miami and Jax). What's one more, right?

Sacramento/Stockton/Modesto (No 20) is one ahead of Charlotte, which is one ahead of Portland.

St. Louis is 23 (and they'll be the first city to get a team bc the NFL effed up the Rams move), followed by Raleigh-Durham (27), San Diego (29), Salt Lake City (30), San Antonio (31), Hartford/New Haven (33), Columbus (34), West Palm-Fort Pierce (36) and so on.

Meanwhile: Vegas is only 39th (but has other tourist-y considerations), Austin is 40th. Buffalo (52) is the next smallest NFL market, but you have OKC (43), Birmingham (44) and Louisville (48) ahead of it. Green Bay-Appleton is the smallest at 67, but somehow it works (ownership socialism, national fan base, sustained success over multiple decades).

One of the more interesting wrinkles is how the owners interpret their markets and what they might be willing to give up. The Cowboys might veto San Antonio, for instance, because they claim a fanbase that covers all of Texas all the way to Phoenix. None of the Florida teams would want to lose Orlando, right? I bet the Patriots would veto anything north of Westchester County, which means no Providence or Hartford. But would anyone claim Portland? Or Sacramento? Or Alabama? Or SLC? Would you want to?

Anyway, expanding to 40 teams is a helluva way to keep HEY DARNOLD employed. 32 is plenty; suck it, St. Louis.

Enix wrote:

Hartford/New Haven (33)

Give NFL Whalers please.

Lev Bell released by Ravens. I called that weeks ago. Shame to see them wait so long. Time to get TySon Williams back out there, dummies.

How about NFL teams in Canadian cities? I realize they have the CFL, but I still think there is a market for NFL football in places like Vancouver, Montreal, or Toronto.

Paleocon wrote:

How about NFL teams in Canadian cities? I realize they have the CFL, but I still think there is a market for NFL football in places like Vancouver, Montreal, or Toronto.

Only feasible market would be Toronto imo. It should probably actually be ahead of London for many reasons.

That said I remember the random games in Toronto actually not doing well. People already have teams + the Bills would try and veto hard.

Medium term the team would do well because the market is just so large and growing.

Also the CFL took a massive hit apparently during COVID. I'm not sure how much longer it will last.

jowner wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

How about NFL teams in Canadian cities? I realize they have the CFL, but I still think there is a market for NFL football in places like Vancouver, Montreal, or Toronto.

Only feasible market would be Toronto imo. It should probably actually be ahead of London for many reasons.

That said I remember the random games in Toronto actually not doing well. People already have teams + the Bills would try and veto hard.

Medium term the team would do well because the market is just so large and growing.

I don't know. I think Vancouver (the smallest of the three I listed) is bigger than Cincinnati or Kansas City which both seem to be doing fine with their NFL franchises. Hell, it is twice as big as Buffalo-Niagara. And the idea that Buffalo would be able to prevent Toronto (a city literally five times its size) from getting a team is a lot of roaring for a little mouse.

Vancouver has a population of about 3 million to draw on and with games only happening once a week, that can be expanded out to the the entire province (just over 5m). From that perspective it's viable. There's also a very popular CFL team (BC Lions) that have been pretty well supported. With the Seahawks becoming good there was a sudden increase of "fans" that have never even watched the NFL before. Just not sure where you would put the stadium. Vancouver the surrounding area has absolutely no space. BC Place would need to be torn down and rebuilt since it would have the lowest capacity in the entire NFL and it's facilities are not modern.

iaintgotnopants wrote:

I'm pretty sure you're never going to see a pro team in Columbus or Austin. I'm pretty sure the only college with sustained success alongside an NFL team was USC and their last peak was during a time there wasn't a team. Miami would be close but there success was pretty short-lived. Minnesota was a legitimate blue blood program but hasn't been relevant since the '60s. The Vikings started in 1961. The NFL just draws so much attention, and thus money, away from the college programs.

*breathes heavily in Blue Jacket*

Vector wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:

I'm pretty sure you're never going to see a pro team in Columbus or Austin. I'm pretty sure the only college with sustained success alongside an NFL team was USC and their last peak was during a time there wasn't a team. Miami would be close but there success was pretty short-lived. Minnesota was a legitimate blue blood program but hasn't been relevant since the '60s. The Vikings started in 1961. The NFL just draws so much attention, and thus money, away from the college programs.

*breathes heavily in Blue Jacket*

I was specifically referring to football. Ohio State is far from a powerhouse in hockey though they have gotten better since the formation of the Big Ten. They were a laughingstock in the CCHA. Very few college hockey programs make money and OSU isn't one of them. So, competition with an NHL team doesn't really matter.

I just need to make sure the Blue Jackets get some recognition. They are barely get any within their own sport.

Vector wrote:

I just need to make sure the Blue Jackets get some recognition. They are barely get any within their own sport.

Wild fans are well aware that the Blue Jackets exist since they had to share the same sh*t expansion draft.

Also, Buffalo is 99 miles away from Toronto which is more than twice the distance between Baltimore and Washington and roughly the distance between Baltimore and Philadelphia.

Paleocon wrote:

Also, Buffalo is 99 miles away from Toronto which is more than twice the distance between Baltimore and Washington and roughly the distance between Baltimore and Philadelphia.

Once upon a time Buffalo played some of its home games in Toronto. So it Toronto part of the Buffalo market? Or does Toronto not care about the NFL, which is why Buffalo no longer plays in Toronto.

Upon further review, I'm now all in favor of immediate expansion to 40, as it gives the Panthers eight more chances to dump HEY DARNOLD and his dumb contract. Plus Canada has given the US plenty of comedians over the years. It's time the US returns the favor.

What a dumb discussion. It's clear New York deserves a third bad team.

garion333 wrote:

What a dumb discussion. It's clear New York deserves a third bad team. :D

Yes, how else will Joe Flacco make his triumphant return to starting... oh wait.

Paleocon wrote:

How about NFL teams in Canadian cities? I realize they have the CFL, but I still think there is a market for NFL football in places like Vancouver, Montreal, or Toronto.

Only fair, since the CFL (briefly) had some teams in the US, including your 1995 Grey Cup champion Baltimore Stallions.

Enix wrote:

Buffalo (52) is the next smallest NFL market,

You know who's basically the same size as Buffalo?

Fresno (55)

TIL: When talking about NFL expansion, you put the emphasis on the second syllable of FresNO.

Seriously, tho, Fresno's case is as good as anyone else's, assuming it has a place to build a stadium and a compliant city/county council willing to pay for the whole thing.

The comic undertone of this whole episode will be that cities and counties will shovel the biggest pile of cash at a bunch of rich dudes simply so to have a tiny piece of the NFL pie. If the NFL is smart, they'll sell the franchise equivalent of PSLs -- you gotta buy in just to have a chance to bid. Genius!

Enix wrote:

TIL: When talking about NFL expansion, you put the emphasis on the second syllable of FresNO.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/B7XtxaF.png)

Seriously, tho, Fresno's case is as good as anyone else's

There's pretty much no way Fresno would get in front of San Diego on the new California team list.

Fresno would become the new Jacksonville if they were to get an NFL city.

Matthew Stafford’s wife says “I’m an idiot” for throwing pretzel at 49ers fan. It's okay; I'm sure Matthew feels the same way for throwing the ball at 49ers players.

*Legion* wrote:

Fresno would become the new Jacksonville if they were to get an NFL city.

Once you get past St. Louis and San Diego, everyone is the new Jacksonville. Might as well shoot a couple of the expansion teams into space and have the Elon MoonMusks and the Bezos Space Lasers (or would it be Lazers? Or Lazerz?)

Rat Boy wrote:

Matthew Stafford’s wife says “I’m an idiot” for throwing pretzel at 49ers fan. It's okay; I'm sure Matthew feels the same way for throwing the ball at 49ers players.

I need more details. Was it a big stadium soft pretzel, or a little one from a bag of Snyder's?

If it's a Snyder's pretzel, I can't imagine a stick make for a good projectile. Tiny twists don't have a lot of mass either. But you could put some muscle into launching a sourdough nibbler.

Enix wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Fresno would become the new Jacksonville if they were to get an NFL city.

Once you get past St. Louis and San Diego, everyone is the new Jacksonville.

No, I mean the new Jacksonville, as in a bunch of under-educated swamp people, except without the swamp.

Rat Boy wrote:

Matthew Stafford’s wife says “I’m an idiot” for throwing pretzel at 49ers fan. It's okay; I'm sure Matthew feels the same way for throwing the ball at 49ers players.

Hey, hey, now; there's a whole host of reasons you're an idiot, and the pretzel is frankly way the hell down the list.