NFL 2021: Draft

jowner wrote:

He's the MVP but ya. Maybe this is less a Packers org problem and more of a Rodgers one.

I think the Packers could have gone a long way with simply keeping Rodgers in the loop. Not necessarily letting him in on all the decision making, but letting their team leader be aware of things rather than be blindsided. Not giving Rodgers all of the input he might want doesn't mean you have to give him absolutely nothing.

Green Bay just seems to have a much harder firewall between the various parts of their team than most other franchises. And frankly, QBs should be listened to at least a bit when it comes to the WRs on the roster. Tom Brady was listened to by two organizations to sign Antonio Brown despite his baggage, yet Rodgers can't even get his team to keep the minimum salary WR5 he likes.

Not telling your HOF QB you're drafting another QB with a first-round pick is an utterly stupid dick move. Cutting WRs without input from your HOF QB is also an utterly stupid dick move. He's not demanding roster control with stuff like that; it would be one thing if the front office had sat down with him and explained his fringe WR maybe had some lurking injuries that made him not as good of a choice or a background investigation showed issues or maybe some other player on the roster had some upside the offensive coordinator wanted to focus on that's one thing, but just cutting a guy who Rodgers liked without talking to him about it is utterly idiotic and short-sighted. Yes, I think great QBs should have some input into their offense. That's not roster control, that's recognizing the QB is what makes your offense run, and getting their input is part of an intelligent front office and coaching staff.

The Bears called Andy Dalton to let him know they were taking fields. The Bucs called Brady about Trask. They weren't asking permission, but they were just being open and professional and the fact the Packers have repeatedly failed to do things like that is honestly inexplicably stupid.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

I'd love it if Kumerow could wind up getting "verbed' like Wally Pipp; "getting Kumerowed" could mean getting so pissed off by what would normally seem a minor slight that you just nuke everything in sight. Let's make it happen.

Also, to Rodgers' credit, Jake Kumerow had a really impressive 100% catch rate last year for Buffalo.

Spoiler:

He caught the one and only pass thrown his way.

He's the Never Lost a Super Bowl QB Blake Bortles of WRs.

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garion333 wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
garion333 wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
garion333 wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Can really see Cleveland being a force to be reckoned with next year, barring another string of injuries to the secondary.

Or, you know, Baker not being very good again.

I think Ben Cleveland will be a force to be reckoned with next year.

Yeah, he's got the potential to be a good, nasty fit.

Not sure why Brandon Stephens went so early, but they're clearly adding athleticism on defense and hoping they can be taught how to play.

Oh, Jacoby, never change.

The Brandon Stephens pick has me scratching my head. CB wasn't even on my mind as a need and Stephens wasn't anywhere near my 104 spot on my board.

The best I can figure is he's a ST guy with athletic upside. Not someone is ever take that early, but perhaps their analytics tells them something.

what do the analytics tell us about the possibility of picking up a starting caliber RT as an UDFA?

I think they'll probably end up with Tyre Phillips starting and if not him a vet whose price will come down in time.

They're saying Stephens profiles as a free safety. Fast with the ability to pick off the ball. Still seems a reach.

Sorry for quoting our Ravens lovefest, but the day after compensatory picks window closed the Ravens found their RT. Pretty obvious that was gonna happen.

That's a surprise. Villanueva has played basically his entire career on the left side.

Not that I don't think he can play the right side, but I'm surprised a left tackle as relatively good at pass protection as him didn't draw more demand from left tackle needy teams. He's not a dominant, crushing blocker, but he's solid and has long arms.

Kinda seems a weird fit for a run heavy team like Baltimore, also. Tall and long is great for pass protection, but is less great for winning the leverage game in the run. He's not the most road grader-y of a tackle. Still, for a late stage free agent, can't really complain.

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Well that's nice... wait, I've heard this one before...

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*Legion* wrote:

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Well that's nice... wait, I've heard this one before...

I believe in plenty of things. Sam Darnold ain't one of them.

Meanwhile, there's a chance that the Panthers will take one of these QBs with their No. 6 pick in the 2020 NFL draft.

Assuming they don't trade for a washed-up future backup.

So, our common take around here is now that the Panthers traded a 2nd round pick for Darnold in order to tank for a 2022 or 2023 1st overall?

Darnold only gets you to #2 overall. Should have signed Mike Glennon, the Lawrence delivery boy.

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garion333 wrote:

So, our common take around here is now that the Panthers traded a 2nd round pick for Darnold in order to tank for a 2022 or 2023 1st overall?

"Tanking" implies purposeful action.

My take is that Matt Rhule doesn't really know what the f**k he's doing with quarterbacks and that a 5-win season is probably the team's ceiling for the next year or two.

That said, the NFC South is paired up this year with the NFC East and the AFC East. The Panthers also play the Texans. Which means Carolina could squeeze out 7-8 wins simply because they play a lot of teams (Eagles, Patriots (in Charlotte!!!!!!), Jets, Dolphins, Giants, Saints x2, WFT and Texans) with quarterbacks who could potentially be as bad or worse than Darnold.

Also: As much as I love Carolina's Sam Howell, he's not a QB you tank for.

*Legion* wrote:

Darnold only gets you to #2 overall. Should have signed Mike Glennon, the Lawrence delivery boy.

Tampa's starting QB in 2014 for five games, the year they got the #1 pick? Mike Glennon.

Theory checks out.

*Legion* wrote:

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Now he's probably giving him the Larry Bird treatment:

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Enix wrote:

Also: As much as I love Carolina's Sam Howell, he's not a QB you tank for.

Next year's QB class seems like it has a lot of names in it, but not a lot of certainty.

Howell is probably the name that shows up consistently high, but boy he takes a LOT of sacks. Scheme certainly plays a role in that, as the UNC passing game seems to be, "Time to throw? Call Four Verticals!" (see: Dyami Brown and his entire tape of running almost nothing but go routes). But he also is way too slow at progressing to the checkdown right now. He was a true sophomore last year, so obviously plenty of room for movement here. Zach Wilson wasn't a draftable prospect at that stage.

Speaking of potential 2022 draft QBs, Seth at PFF with a quote that I'm sure I'll be dredging back up a year from now, about Oklahoma's Spencer Rattler:

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Sam Howell is a great college QB, which is why he's starting out as the No. 1 QB prospect for the 2022 class. He's a ton of fun, and Carolina football is most fun when it's scoring 50 points per game (and giving up about that money.)

That said, I can't see him being a great pro QB, or even a good one, for exactly the reasons Legion said. But, hey, I was wrong about Carolina's Mitch Trubisky being a top 5 pick, so what do I know.

*Legion* wrote:

That's a surprise. Villanueva has played basically his entire career on the left side.

Not that I don't think he can play the right side, but I'm surprised a left tackle as relatively good at pass protection as him didn't draw more demand from left tackle needy teams. He's not a dominant, crushing blocker, but he's solid and has long arms.

Kinda seems a weird fit for a run heavy team like Baltimore, also. Tall and long is great for pass protection, but is less great for winning the leverage game in the run. He's not the most road grader-y of a tackle. Still, for a late stage free agent, can't really complain.

I think the move was partially to get a bona fide pass protector for an evolution to an offense that intends to throw more.

And it was also probably a bit of addition by subtraction in taking away Rapistburger's left tackle.

Paleocon wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

That's a surprise. Villanueva has played basically his entire career on the left side.

Not that I don't think he can play the right side, but I'm surprised a left tackle as relatively good at pass protection as him didn't draw more demand from left tackle needy teams. He's not a dominant, crushing blocker, but he's solid and has long arms.

Kinda seems a weird fit for a run heavy team like Baltimore, also. Tall and long is great for pass protection, but is less great for winning the leverage game in the run. He's not the most road grader-y of a tackle. Still, for a late stage free agent, can't really complain.

I think the move was partially to get a bona fide pass protector for an evolution to an offense that intends to throw more.

And it was also probably a bit of addition by subtraction in taking away Rapistburger's left tackle.

And a backup LT.

Rodgers reportedly warned Packers free agents that he probably wouldn't be a Packer next year, so that they wouldn't re-sign with the expectation that they'd be returning to a team that has Rodgers at QB.

Rodgers is giving Gutekunst a gift, and I don't know why he's not accepting it. Gutekunst messed up by drafting a replacement for his QB too early, and not doing enough to manage that relationship. But Rodgers' behavior this offseason has the Packers fanbase pretty furious at him. Imagine drafting Love, booting Rodgers following an MVP season, and having Rodgers be seen as the bad guy.

I would put Rodgers on the trade block and put the three 1st round pick price tag on him, even though I don't have the leverage to expect that price. But I would put it all on Rodgers: this is what you should be worth, go find a team willing to pay it, and we'll pull the trigger. Rodgers has to either talk someone like Denver or Washington into buying high, or he has to shut up.

Well, I imagine this

*Legion* wrote:

Rodgers is giving Gutekunst a gift, and I don't know why he's not accepting it.

is because of this

*Legion* wrote:

Gutekunst messed up by drafting a replacement for his QB too early, and not doing enough to manage that relationship.

Gutekunst doesn't seem all that good at this aspect of his job.

You can still get the Washington Football team at great odds to win the SB and NFC.

Great defense. Also maybe crazy enough to ship the Packers an offer they can't refuse.

Bill Barnwell had an article about trade destinations. The Washington package 2 firsts 2 seconds and..... Fitzmagic!

Ryan Fitzpatrick? Super bowl MVP? Believe!

jowner wrote:

Bill Barnwell had an article about trade destinations. The Washington package 2 firsts 2 seconds and..... Fitzmagic!

Ryan Fitzpatrick? Super bowl MVP? Believe!

I would take that deal. That's essentially the same value as three 1sts, and if the Packers do move Rodgers, they need to bring a veteran into that QB room, and Fitzmagick is better than the options on the free agent market.

Although... instead of taking Fitzmagick and paying him $10 million, I could take just the picks and then pay $2.5m to the BOAT.

Apparently JOK had a heart issue come up during his medicals. Doctors cleared him, but it probably explains why he fell.

I'll give him mine if he needs a new one. I mean, I'm a 40 year old fat guy who could run a 40 in 4.1 (hours), but he is welcome to it.

UpToIsomorphism wrote:

I'll give him mine if he needs a new one.

I hear the going rate for spare hearts is Baker, OBJ, and a 2nd.

GB will soon find out it is a LUXURY to fail in a championship game...