[Discussion] Police, White Nationalists, and the Rise of Fascism

jdzappa wrote:
Natus wrote:
jdzappa wrote:
Natus wrote:
jdzappa wrote:

Sadly, I just realized Rittenhouse has a very lucrative future ahead of him as a right wing marketer when he invariably gets found not guilty. I’m hoping I’m wrong but there’s reasonable doubt about the first shooting and then he can argue he tried to retreat when the mob came after him.

He'll be found not guilty because we are profoundly racist country, not because he is actually innocent. He went to the protest to shoot people, FFS.

Not talking about his actual motivations - all of his jackassery since his arrest proves he wasn’t just the dumb but well meaning kid he initially pretended to be. I’m talking about what will likely happen during the trial, especially given his defense team and that his first victim was not very sympathetic.

I think we're trying to communicate across two different universes.

None of this is my personal opinion - there is plenty of video footage of Kyle running around talking to people in a friendly manner and asking if anyone needs medical help. This is going to look good for the jury. What won’t look good is that his first shooting victim Rosenbaum was a convicted multiple child rapist who chased after Kyle, threw things at him and then tried to disarm him. Now, it’s very possible Rosenbaum was trying to be the good guy and get the gun away. But the defense can make a good case that at this point Kyle legitimately feared for his life. Jurors likely won’t see all the stupid stuff Kyle has said since the trial that is pretty damning.

I think the fact a 17 year old illegally in possession of a assault rifle who crossed state lines with said illegally possessed assault rifle is probably the largest legal issue that needs to be addressed in this particular case.

I did the math on that "child rapist" allegation and it appears he was 18 years old at the time of the charge. My understanding is that it was for consensual sex with a 16 year old he had been seeing for at least a year. I'm not saying kids having sex is a great thing, but I think there is a pretty sizable moral difference between two kids having sex and, say, a 39 year old Republican senator transporting a 16 year old across state lines and paying for her to be shopped around between him and his friends.

Paleocon wrote:

I did the math on that "child rapist" allegation and it appears he was 18 years old at the time of the charge. My understanding is that it was for consensual sex with a 16 year old he had been seeing for at least a year. I'm not saying kids having sex is a great thing, but I think there is a pretty sizable moral difference between two kids having sex and, say, a 39 year old Republican senator transporting a 16 year old across state lines and paying for her to be shopped around between him and his friends.

A minor, illegally in possession of a semi-automatic rifle, crossed state lines and murdered people. It doesn't matter who he shot or why he did it.

Dredd Jr. could have shot Literal Hitler for all I care. Kid's a useless coward, propped up by a racist system, and backed by white supremacists.

The only reason he did not die that night was because he was born white.

This is the second time I’ve seen Mikel Jollett quoted in the Goodjer D&D forums. I only know him as a book author and song writer. Has he become some sort of political figure?

RawkGWJ wrote:

This is the second time I’ve seen Mikel Jollett quoted in the Goodjer D&D forums. I only know him as a book author and song writer. Has he become some sort of political figure?

I suppose. I know of him only as a writer of sage tweets.

His band is Airborne Toxic Event which is a reference to a the Don Delillo book White Noise. I’m a fan of pretty much everything he does.

So I took a gig at a local community center providing low-cost meals to the elderly and eventually running after-school programs for kids in the fall.

The community it serves, called Picture Rocks, isn't far from me, but it's separated from the rest of Tucson by some geography so I've never had occasion to go over there much. I was looking for Facebook groups to join to get a better sense of the community and its needs, and I came across one called "Picture Rocks Watchful Warriors" that has a lot of loud American flag and eagle iconography and the stated purpose of "reducing crime" in the community. All the posts were private unless you join.

I was all ready for that to be code for a bunch of thinly veiled racist sh*t, but so far all the posts have been the kind of stuff you see on Nextdoor. "Can anyone recommend an electrician who works cheap" and such.

I'm still holding my breath for the other shoe to drop, like maybe all the racist stuff got cleaned up a couple months ago and now happens in private messages or whatever. So far so good though.

It makes me sad that my first thought when I see my nation's flag is, sh*t, hope this isn't a cesspool of racism.

But maybe that's just my white ass being late to the party and realizing what it's already meant to other folks for a while.

hbi2k wrote:

It makes me sad that my first thought when I see my nation's flag is, sh*t, hope this isn't a cesspool of racism.

But maybe that's just my white ass being late to the party and realizing what it's already meant to other folks for a while.

As a veteran this is my first thought when I see the flag anymore. Extreme nationalism and the empty trappings of patriotism.

Good on you for serving your community. That's what actual patriotism is.

hbi2k wrote:

I was all ready for that to be code for a bunch of thinly veiled racist sh*t, but so far all the posts have been the kind of stuff you see on Nextdoor. "Can anyone recommend an electrician who works cheap" and such.

You’ve never seen thinly veiled racist sh*t on nextdoor?!

JLS wrote:
hbi2k wrote:

It makes me sad that my first thought when I see my nation's flag is, sh*t, hope this isn't a cesspool of racism.

But maybe that's just my white ass being late to the party and realizing what it's already meant to other folks for a while.

As a veteran this is my first thought when I see the flag anymore. Extreme nationalism and the empty trappings of patriotism.

Good on you for serving your community. That's what actual patriotism is.

You're not alone, my friend an active service member is so disheartened by his flag and his service. He tries hard and is very outspoken. He was reported for supporting an active terrorist org aka BLM. It was sad to hear. He get's him self in hot water standing up for basic human rights. I am proud to call him my friend. Sad to see them even feel betrayed by the flag...It's weird.

ruhk wrote:
hbi2k wrote:

I was all ready for that to be code for a bunch of thinly veiled racist sh*t, but so far all the posts have been the kind of stuff you see on Nextdoor. "Can anyone recommend an electrician who works cheap" and such.

You’ve never seen thinly veiled racist sh*t on nextdoor?!

Not really, no. A lot of loud disagreement over mask policy, but nothing racial.

I don't doubt it's out there, but I haven't seen it.

Hobear wrote:
JLS wrote:
hbi2k wrote:

It makes me sad that my first thought when I see my nation's flag is, sh*t, hope this isn't a cesspool of racism.

But maybe that's just my white ass being late to the party and realizing what it's already meant to other folks for a while.

As a veteran this is my first thought when I see the flag anymore. Extreme nationalism and the empty trappings of patriotism.

Good on you for serving your community. That's what actual patriotism is.

You're not alone, my friend an active service member is so disheartened by his flag and his service. He tries hard and is very outspoken. He was reported for supporting an active terrorist org aka BLM. It was sad to hear. He get's him self in hot water standing up for basic human rights. I am proud to call him my friend. Sad to see them even feel betrayed by the flag...It's weird.

I have a very centrist friend who's served in Afghanistan. He thought I was out of line going after Trumpists in the early days, but Trump's presidency and especially 1/6 really shocked him to his core. To say he's very angry and very distressed about where many of his friends and colleagues are would be an understatement.

Holy f*ck. Police officers accidently shoot each other and then execute the person they have in custody.

https://www.kctv5.com/news/local_new...

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...

Shiiiiii....

ruhk wrote:
hbi2k wrote:

I was all ready for that to be code for a bunch of thinly veiled racist sh*t, but so far all the posts have been the kind of stuff you see on Nextdoor. "Can anyone recommend an electrician who works cheap" and such.

You’ve never seen thinly veiled racist sh*t on nextdoor?!

The ones on my local nextdoor don't bother with the veil.

TIL, the reason cops don’t have to follow the 4th amendment is that there was a Supreme Court decision in 1977 that effectively negated the 4th amendment. It’s called Pensilvania v. Mimms. Here’s a link to the Wikipedia page for PvM.

I also learned that you have to comply with everything a cop might ask you to do and if you don’t they can do whatever they want to you and the courts will always side with the cops. So if a cop tells you to get out of your car, it’s probably best to do it. This is also a result of PvM.

Florida cop gets fired from a department for misconduct, applies for and gets a job one county over despite the pleas of his former employer not to hire him. Then he goes on to plant drugs evidence on dozens of different folks he stops on pretextual traffic stops. Ruins hundreds of lives, gets 119 cases reversed after review.

Will likely get a slap on the wrist.

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...

Proud Boys and Oath Keepers, Forceful on Jan. 6, Privately Are in Turmoil

Wall Street Journal wrote:

The far-right group the Oath Keepers is splintering after board members accused the founder of spending its money on hair dye, steaks and guns. The leader of the Proud Boys, choked off from the financial system, is printing “Black Lives Matter” T-shirts to make money.

The finances of the two most visible groups with members involved in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol are sputtering. Leaders are low on cash, struggling with defections and arguing with members over the future.

The Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys have seen more than three dozen of their members or affiliates arrested in connection with Jan. 6. Prosecutors are investigating the money trail that led the groups to Washington that day and examining the roles played by the Proud Boys’ leader, Enrique Tarrio, and the founder of the Oath Keepers, Stewart Rhodes, neither of whom entered the Capitol building.

In late April, Federal Bureau of Investigation agents surrounded Mr. Rhodes in unmarked vehicles in Lubbock, Texas, seized his iPhone and served him a search warrant, said the Oath Keepers’ general counsel, Kellye SoRelle. The warrant sought evidence about any “planning, preparation or travel” to breach the Capitol on Jan. 6, including any “tactical training” or weapons procurement. His phone has since been returned.

Members of the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers appeared well-organized at the Capitol, some coordinating with walkie-talkies and wearing military-style outfits. Behind the facade of power is a yearslong cash crunch exacerbated by internal discord and isolation from financial firms and social media. Fallout from Jan. 6 made it all worse.

“We’re bleeding,” Mr. Tarrio said in an interview in April, referring to an e-commerce business he uses to support himself and other Proud Boys members. “We’ve been bleeding money since January, like hemorrhaging money.”

The ideas driving the groups are far from dead. Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been raised on fringe crowdfunding sites for the legal defense of those who participated in the Jan. 6 riot. Many members who have left the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers haven’t abandoned their causes. Some have formed new groups or joined other far-right organizations.

A report by U.S. intelligence agencies in March said that more violence is likely due to conspiracy theories surrounding the 2020 election, the Covid-19 pandemic and the Jan. 6 riot. It also said individuals or small cells are more likely to undertake violent acts than are organized extremist groups.

Within the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers, an escalation of crackdown efforts and the departure of former President Donald Trump from office has spurred a new level of disarray, according to interviews with more than two dozen former or current members and an examination of financial records and internal emails.

In interviews, a half-dozen current or former Oath Keepers board directors and other members accused their founder, Mr. Rhodes, of misusing dues and donations for personal expenses. Four board members quit last year after confronting Mr. Rhodes about his spending, and at least six state chapters have split or distanced themselves from the national organization.

Membership has dropped 80% from its peak, to roughly 7,500, according to former board members. The organization had less than $10,000 in its bank account as of April, Mr. Rhodes said in an interview that month, speaking from the road in his 14-year-old SUV. RallyPay, a credit-card processor the Oath Keepers used in fundraising, shut them off after Jan 6.

The Proud Boys aren’t faring much better. Records show that a website through which Mr. Tarrio and other members sell Proud Boys T-shirts and other items, called 1776.shop, is on pace to generate tens of thousands dollars less revenue than last year. For months, Mr. Tarrio said, he couldn’t fulfill customer orders for lack of a way to process payments made with credit and debit cards.

Live streaming service DLive, which the Proud Boys used to raise money, banned Mr. Tarrio and other members after Jan. 6. Members and local chapters have turned to cryptocurrency, local credit unions, alternative payment brokers and encrypted messaging apps such as Telegram to replace a mainstream financial system that has largely cut them off.

On a spring afternoon, piles of unsold T-shirts sat on the floors of Mr. Tarrio’s headquarters in Miami, where he coordinates Proud Boys activities and runs the e-commerce operation. He said he had laid off some workers, office rent is harder to come by and legal fees loom. At a gun show in May, he said, he sat at a booth for hours and made barely enough in sales to cover the cost of the table.

Just a few years back, the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were adding thousands of members and raising money and selling merchandise with little interference.

...

Mr. Rhodes of the Oath Keepers, meanwhile, was coming under fire for his spending of the organization’s funds, collected largely from veterans and former law-enforcement officers.

He spent Oath Keepers money on a deposit on a house in Montana, on haircuts and liquor, on storable food reserves and on personal riot gear, according to some current and former members and some of Mr. Rhodes’s family members. They also said he had a habit of buying expensive military equipment and leaving it in caches in people’s homes around the country for future “operations.”

Bank records reviewed by the Journal show thousands of dollars of Oath Keepers funds spent on goods and services near the town in Montana where Mr. Rhodes lived until recently, including at an auto-repair shop ($12,424), pet store ($83.50), dentist ($504), bar ($886), gun store ($9,974) and a lingerie and adult-goods shop called Alley Katz Nighties N Naughties ($229). The group also spent money on phone games ($275) and at an online perfume shop Fragrancenet.com ($256).

“He used that thing as a piggy bank,” said Ed Wilson, an Army veteran who managed information technology for the Oath Keepers in 2015 and said he alerted the board about spending. Mr. Wilson said he quit when he saw nothing was changing.

Ms. SoRelle didn’t dispute the expenditures in Montana or those listed in bank records but said they don’t represent the totality of the group’s community-service efforts.

Mr. Rhodes called the allegations of misusing funds “petty, stupid and salacious” and said the accusers were “disgruntled people that have a bone to pick.”

Former Oath Keepers secretary Billy Simmons said that in early 2020, he noticed Mr. Rhodes had maxed out his Oath Keepers card three days in a row at a sporting-goods store. When Mr. Rhodes refused to explain, Mr. Simmons said, he called the card company. It turned out Mr. Rhodes had bought an AR-10 military-style rifle costing about $1,000 for his own use, paying over three days because of a $350 daily spending limit on the card, former board members said.

The board had set that limit, said a former director, Scott Dunn, after Mr. Rhodes put around $800 on the card at Walmart to buy groceries for three that included more than a dozen T-bone and rib-eye steaks, plus kettlebells for exercising.

Mr. Dunn was traveling with Mr. Rhodes and another Oath Keeper at the time to attend a gun-rights rally in Virginia. He said Mr. Rhodes suggested the two go on Tinder dates on the Oath Keepers’ dime. Mr. Dunn said he declined. When they left Virginia, he added, Mr. Rhodes left the kettlebells behind.

Ms. SoRelle, the Oath Keepers’ lawyer, said that Mr. Rhodes bought the groceries for members to eat in Virginia and that he was trying to cheer up Mr. Dunn, who had recently split with his wife.

...

At one point, according to former board member Rick Moon, directors confronted Mr. Rhodes about buying gasoline and a “train car load” of rice and beans for himself with the organization’s money. His response, according to Mr. Moon: “I created this organization, it’s mine, and I’ll do what I want to do with this.”

The national organization is registered as a nonprofit in Nevada. An accountant told board members in 2019 that the group hadn’t filed a tax return in years, according to Mr. Simmons.

...

Mr. Simmons, the group’s former secretary, said Mr. Rhodes’s spending “shot membership and morale to hell.” It also led some state chapters, including in Pennsylvania and Virginia, to quit the national organization and spurred a loss of dues, according to former board members and state leaders.

Mr. Rhodes’s AR-10 rifle purchase in early 2020 was the last straw for some members. “I can’t keep doing this,” Mr. Simmons told Mr. Rhodes, in a call with other board members. Mr. Simmons, Mr. Dunn and three other officers quit the Oath Keepers.

South African rugby player Lindani Myeni was fatally shot by police in Hawaii in April 202. His family is now suing for wrongful death.

There is a ring video of the guy taking off his shoes and entering a house behind a family. Kind of odd because it looked like he came with them. He was arm length away from them and they didn't say anything until he entered the home.

The lady freaks out and calls the police. He apologizes stating he knows the people here and he is a rugby player. He leaves puts back on his shoes and walks off apologizing as he is leaving. The lady can be heard on the phone being hysterical to the police. She follows him outside where he goes to his car. She is still in hysterical acting like she is being murdered but oddly is describing the situation correctly.

All that was on the ring video that just came out. There is also bodycam video that seems to be edited. Lindani is seen talking to a cop when another cops shows up with the hysterical lady and says that is him. The cops pulls his gun and tells him to get down. Then he gets tased and fight with police. The police then shoots him. Note this isn't one long video. There might be one unedited video but I haven't seen it.

Looks to me that the police were wrong for escalating the situation and the lady was wrong for using white tears to describe what looks like a honest mistake as a murder. I don't know if the guy was wrong for fighting with police because they edited out what prompted the fight. That only makes me not trust them.

Here is a twitter post on it. No idea how to post a video from twitter.
https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/stat...

I mentioned to a 2A fanatic that if he couldn't walk into a random police station and ask for a complaint form without fear of violent or oppressive reprisal, he didn't live in a free society.

I thought his head would explode.