[Discussion] Impeachment, Legacy, and Discussion of Individual 45

Though noted as discussion, news, debate, and all things related to events that occurred during the Tr*mp administration can go here. The scope of this thread is specific to the former administration and it's hangers-on in the aftermath of the shift in power for the United States and impacted areas worldwide.

It seems like 45 Republican Senators are completely OK with the idea that the President can incite a mob to break into the Senate chambers, drag Senators out onto the steps, and lynch them after an extrajudicial People's trial.

OG_slinger wrote:

It seems like 45 Republican Senators are completely OK with the idea that the President can incite a mob to break into the Senate chambers, drag Senators out onto the steps, and lynch them after an extrajudicial People's trial.

They think the mob wasn't going to lynch Republican Senators.

Gremlin wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

It seems like 45 Republican Senators are completely OK with the idea that the President can incite a mob to break into the Senate chambers, drag Senators out onto the steps, and lynch them after an extrajudicial People's trial.

They think the mob wasn't going to lynch Republican Senators.*

* Offer not valid for Republican Vice Presidents.

OG_slinger wrote:

It seems like 45 Republican Senators are completely OK with the idea that the President can incite a mob to break into the Senate chambers, drag Senators out onto the steps, and lynch them after an extrajudicial People's trial.

Of course it’s ok. Because nothing really happened to them. Sure, 5 people died and another committed suicide, but none of the “elite” were harmed. So no foul.

JC wrote:

Of course it’s ok. Because nothing really happened to them. Sure, 5 people died and another committed suicide, but none of the “elite” were harmed. So no foul.

We worship cops. But not that cop. For reasons. Even though he was a red hat like us.

What do you mean we're hypocrites? f*ck you! This is why Trump won in 2016 and Biden had to cheat in 2020. Did you see the size of our rallies?

You son of a bitch. You'll get yours when the MAGA revolution comes and we get all the child molesting Democrat holograms. What do you mean that's promoting insurrection? Cancel culture!!

Gremlin wrote:
fangblackbone wrote:

Please tell me DeJoy is long gone too.
We need to rebuild the Post Office.

Nope, Biden can't fire DeJoy directly. Only the US Postal Service Board of Governors can do that. And they have a Republican majority until 2022-ish.

On the other hand, Biden can fire US Postal Service Board of Governors for cause, and ruining the post office sure seems like a reasonable reason to get fired...

Just frame the total failure during the holiday season as a war on Christmas.

I'm actually surprised there were even five senators that stood up for what's right.

Senate vote on constitutionality of impeaching a former president.

Paul's motion was killed on a 55-45 vote, with five Republicans joining all Democrats, meaning 45 Republicans voted for Paul's effort. Republican Sens. Mitt Romney of Utah, Ben Sasse of Nebraska, Susan Collins of Maine, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania crossed party lines to vote with Democrats.

Republicans are ok with destroying norms when they're the ones doing it. They've now suggested that an outgoing president can do whatever they want right before leaving office with zero repercussions.

Rand Paul continues to be a horrible person ignoring the massive difference between speech and action.

Paul said in a floor speech ahead of the vote, "I want this body on record, every last person here: Is this how you think politics should be?"

"Democrats insist on applying a test of incitement to a Republican that they refuse to apply to themselves," he said. "I want Democrats to raise their hands if they have ever given a speech that says 'take back,' 'fight for your country,' who hasn't used the words fight figuratively?"

He went on to say, "Are we going to put every politician in jail -- are we going to impeach every politician who has used the words fight figuratively in a speech? Shame!"

Well said..The amount of hypocrisy is...not surprising.

She realizes the internet is forever, right?

(CNN)Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene has removed dozens of Facebook posts from 2018 and 2019 in which she endorsed fringe conspiracy theories and repeatedly indicated support for executing prominent Democratic politicians.

JC wrote:

She realizes the internet is forever, right?

(CNN)Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene has removed dozens of Facebook posts from 2018 and 2019 in which she endorsed fringe conspiracy theories and repeatedly indicated support for executing prominent Democratic politicians.

Man, she much have had a lot of interns working for her.

one reporter visited one small town in one unpopulated state and talked to about a dozen folks.

Fox news headline: "TRUMP SUPPORTERS GETTING STRONGER."

You can smell the desperation exuding from the screen.

Pseudo Non-Sequitur(?): So the 2018 film Assassination Nation popped up in my queue this week. Sat down, expecting a satirical look at people, sexism, social media, and hacking; which it does well. As the credits rolled, I had a thought: It would be fun to show this film to the senate with the actual insurrection footage (or the last couple of years) interspersed throughout. See if they can pick the satire out from reality...

Five of Trump's impeachment lawyers quit. "[A] disagreement over his legal strategy." They could just sit on their hands and do nothing while Trump gets acquitted anyway.

Rat Boy wrote:

Five of Trump's impeachment lawyers quit. "[A] disagreement over his legal strategy." They could just sit on their hands and do nothing while Trump gets acquitted anyway.

Apparently it's the ENTIRE legal team that has quit? Please tell me Trump plans to represent himself because he wants to be on TV again and have the spotlight back on him.

No other attorneys have announced they are working on Trump's impeachment defense.
A person familiar with the departures told CNN that Trump wanted the attorneys to argue there was mass election fraud and that the election was stolen from him rather than focus on the legality of convicting a president after he's left office. Trump was not receptive to the discussions about how they should proceed in that regard.

and surprising no one....

The attorneys had not yet been paid any advance fees and a letter of intent was never signed.

Not to dogpile on the Donald, but Rat Boy and JC are both spot on. Trump doesn't need legal representation. He doesn't even need to show up. He could write a letter to the Senate that says "My only regret is that the coup failed" and the GOP would dutifully line up and whimper "not guilty" as they troll facebook marketplace for discount spines.

edit: according to Kaitlan Collins, the attorneys quit because Trump refuses any defense beyond "the election was rigged."

I don't know how to link tweets as images, so here is the quote:

Kaitlan Collins wrote:

A third attorney, Josh Howard, who was also recently added to Trump's defense team, has also left, I'm told. Trump wanted the attorneys to argue there was mass election fraud and it was stolen from him rather than focus on proposed arguments about constitutionality.

The irony is that Republicans are the ones who say that a legislator should do what's "best" for their constituents, even if it's not what they want, but then hide behind the rabid, brainless mob of a base they created and pretend their hands are tied.

We got some more clarity about the January 6th rally over the weekend, especially about who really organized it and who funded it.

It seems there were multiple right-wing groups trying to organize various events around the January 6th certification of the Electoral College votes. One of those groups was Women for America First, a pro-Trump dark money PAC founded by Amy Kremer (she helped create the Tea Party movement). Women for America First had applied for a rally permit for right after the inauguration. On December 19th Trump tweeted that his supporters should come to D.C. on the 6th to protest the certification of the Electoral College votes and said that things would be "wild." Right after that Women for America First changed the date of their rally to January 6th.

Yesterday the Wall Street Journal reported that conspiracy theorist and all-around asshole Alex Jones got Julie Jenkins Fancelli, a prominent donor to the Trump campaign and heiress to the Publix Super Markets Inc. chain, to donate $300,000 to a January 6th rally event in late December. That rally event was the one being organized by Women for America First and, internally, those efforts were headed by the organization's director Cindy Chafian. Fancelli's donation covered the bulk of the event's $500,000 cost.

Yesterday ProPublica reported that it had obtained a series of text messages that showed Chafian (and everyone at Women for America First) were sidelined once Fancelli's money entered the picture.

Fancelli requested--and got--Caroline Wren to take over the logistics, budgeting, funding and messaging for the January 6th rally. Wren was deputy to Donald Trump Jr.’s girlfriend, Kimberly Guilfoyle, at Trump Victory, a joint presidential fundraising committee during the 2020 campaign (for which she was paid $20,000 per month).

That takeover was documented by a series of text messages Wren sent to Chafian. Wren directed Chafian to turn over the event's budget document and vendor list to herself and Justin Caporale. Caporale was a former top aide to first lady Melania Trump and was getting paid $15,000 a month by the Trump campaign through November. He was also a partner at Event Strategies, Inc., the production company helped organize the January 6th rally (the company was also paid $1.3 million by the Trump campaign for organizing other events). Wren also told Chafian to hold off on the printing of signs and promotional materials for the rally until she determined what they would say.

Wren's takeover of the January 6th event ultimately resulted in Chafian leaving Women for America First. Kremer became uncomfortable with the involvement of Jones and the leader of the Stop the Steal movement, Ali Alexander, who's currently hiding from law enforcement and the FBI. Kremer was concerned "because there was an aggressive push to have fringe participation in our event," including giving Jones and Alexander speaking slots at the rally.

So Chafian left Women for America First and founded another right-wing group, the Eighty Percent Coalition. She organized a rally for January 5th where Jones and Alexander spoke. Jones paid $96,000 to the Eighty Percent Coalition to organize the January 5th rally.

So we have a rich conservative donor who's given Trump's campaign and the RNC over $1 million since 2018 shelling out the bulk of the cost of the January 6th rally being organized by Women for America First and using that donation to completely sideline everyone at the non-profit and to install multiple people who were being paid top dollar all throughout 2020 by the Trump campaign. But we're apparently supposed to believe that there's absolutely no connection between Trump and the January 6th rally.

OG_slinger wrote:

We got some more clarity about the January 6th rally over the weekend, especially about who really organized it and who funded it.

It seems there were multiple right-wing groups trying to organize various events around the January 6th certification of the Electoral College votes. One of those groups was Women for America First, a pro-Trump dark money PAC founded by Amy Kremer (she helped create the Tea Party movement). Women for America First had applied for a rally permit for right after the inauguration. On December 19th Trump tweeted that his supporters should come to D.C. on the 6th to protest the certification of the Electoral College votes and said that things would be "wild." Right after that Women for America First changed the date of their rally to January 6th.

Yesterday the Wall Street Journal reported that conspiracy theorist and all-around asshole Alex Jones got Julie Jenkins Fancelli, a prominent donor to the Trump campaign and heiress to the Publix Super Markets Inc. chain, to donate $300,000 to a January 6th rally event in late December. That rally event was the one being organized by Women for America First and, internally, those efforts were headed by the organization's director Cindy Chafian. Fancelli's donation covered the bulk of the event's $500,000 cost.

Yesterday ProPublica reported that it had obtained a series of text messages that showed Chafian (and everyone at Women for America First) were sidelined once Fancelli's money entered the picture.

Fancelli requested--and got--Caroline Wren to take over the logistics, budgeting, funding and messaging for the January 6th rally. Wren was deputy to Donald Trump Jr.’s girlfriend, Kimberly Guilfoyle, at Trump Victory, a joint presidential fundraising committee during the 2020 campaign (for which she was paid $20,000 per month).

That takeover was documented by a series of text messages Wren sent to Chafian. Wren directed Chafian to turn over the event's budget document and vendor list to herself and Justin Caporale. Caporale was a former top aide to first lady Melania Trump and was getting paid $15,000 a month by the Trump campaign through November. He was also a partner at Event Strategies, Inc., the production company helped organize the January 6th rally (the company was also paid $1.3 million by the Trump campaign for organizing other events). Wren also told Chafian to hold off on the printing of signs and promotional materials for the rally until she determined what they would say.

Wren's takeover of the January 6th event ultimately resulted in Chafian leaving Women for America First. Kremer became uncomfortable with the involvement of Jones and the leader of the Stop the Steal movement, Ali Alexander, who's currently hiding from law enforcement and the FBI. Kremer was concerned "because there was an aggressive push to have fringe participation in our event," including giving Jones and Alexander speaking slots at the rally.

So Chafian left Women for America First and founded another right-wing group, the Eighty Percent Coalition. She organized a rally for January 5th where Jones and Alexander spoke. Jones paid $96,000 to the Eighty Percent Coalition to organize the January 5th rally.

So we have a rich conservative donor who's given Trump's campaign and the RNC over $1 million since 2018 shelling out the bulk of the cost of the January 6th rally being organized by Women for America First and using that donation to completely sideline everyone at the non-profit and to install multiple people who were being paid top dollar all throughout 2020 by the Trump campaign. But we're apparently supposed to believe that there's absolutely no connection between Trump and the January 6th rally.

So I've seen these stories about who funded the rally on Jan 6th, buy I never understood the tone of articles. Some of them make it sound like some great revelation that it's a bunch of MAGA groups. I mean, duh, right? Who else would have done.
Am I missing a piece of the story?

lunchbox12682 wrote:

So I've seen these stories about who funded the rally on Jan 6th, buy I never understood the tone of articles. Some of them make it sound like some great revelation that it's a bunch of MAGA groups. I mean, duh, right? Who else would have done.
Am I missing a piece of the story?

My takeaway is that there were a lot of different groups who were making noise about protests, but none of them were actually doing anything to turn that talk into reality. Then Trump tweeted about January 6th and that's when things began to coalesce.

Even then it took a week or two for someone (Fancelli) to donate the money and then that money was basically used to take over an event a pro-Trump non-profit was already organizing (and who had gotten a permit). Their people were sidelined and former Trump campaign personnel were brought in to organize and execute everything.

There's also been reporting that there was a meeting on the evening of January 5th at the private residence of Donald Trump at the Trump International DC with Trump Jr., Eric Trump, Michael Flynn, Peter Navarro, Corey Lewandowski, David Bossie, Adam Piper (executive director of the Republican Attorneys General Association, which robocalled people telling them to show up to the January 6th rally), and the newly elected Sen. Tommy Tuberville.

Another reporter said that Giuliani and the MyPillow mook were also there along with Junior's crazy, coked-up girlfriend Kimberly Guilfoyle.

Guilfoyle's presence is interesting because Ali Alexander said during a Breitbart interview on the 6th promoting the rally that Guilfoyle had called him on the evening of the 5th and because the woman who was organizing the rally on the 6th, Wren, used to work for her.

So we're getting a lot of evidence that January 6th was organized by Trump or, at the very least, that Trump had quite a bit of input into the event where he riled up the crowd and pointed them at the Capitol Building.

OG_slinger wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:

So I've seen these stories about who funded the rally on Jan 6th, buy I never understood the tone of articles. Some of them make it sound like some great revelation that it's a bunch of MAGA groups. I mean, duh, right? Who else would have done.
Am I missing a piece of the story?

My takeaway is that there were a lot of different groups who were making noise about protests, but none of them were actually doing anything to turn that talk into reality. Then Trump tweeted about January 6th and that's when things began to coalesce.

Even then it took a week or two for someone (Fancelli) to donate the money and then that money was basically used to take over an event a pro-Trump non-profit was already organizing (and who had gotten a permit). Their people were sidelined and former Trump campaign personnel were brought in to organize and execute everything.

There's also been reporting that there was a meeting on the evening of January 5th at the private residence of Donald Trump at the Trump International DC with Trump Jr., Eric Trump, Michael Flynn, Peter Navarro, Corey Lewandowski, David Bossie, Adam Piper (executive director of the Republican Attorneys General Association, which robocalled people telling them to show up to the January 6th rally), and the newly elected Sen. Tommy Tuberville.

Another reporter said that Giuliani and the MyPillow mook were also there along with Junior's crazy, coked-up girlfriend Kimberly Guilfoyle.

Guilfoyle's presence is interesting because Ali Alexander said during a Breitbart interview on the 6th promoting the rally that Guilfoyle had called him on the evening of the 5th and because the woman who was organizing the rally on the 6th, Wren, used to work for her.

So we're getting a lot of evidence that January 6th was organized by Trump or, at the very least, that Trump had quite a bit of input into the event where he riled up the crowd and pointed them at the Capitol Building.

Right, which is still a "no duh" from me. I think my confusion is was there anyone claiming the rally wasn't a Trump event?

lunchbox12682 wrote:

Right, which is still a "no duh" from me. I think my confusion is was there anyone claiming the rally wasn't a Trump event?

Just the Republicans in Congress.

I mean we had all the dots connected that pointed to massive collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia and the entire GOP said so what??

This will be more of the same with the added insult of throwing around words like unity and healing.

We all get it but there are plenty of Rs that say in the same breath "Trump plays 76th level chess and is a genuis" and "How is Trump expected to know what his closest companions are doing" again and again.

It's all useful info for charging those people with their part in the insurrection, but I don't think it'll help much against Trump himself. It really depends on how they use it. If they try to connect him to the planning himself it's only going to dilute their case and give Republicans an easy out to say it was true believers acting of their own accord. It'd be far better to use it as an example of how his supporters interpret what he says as orders, not just idle statements.

karmajay wrote:

We all get it but there are plenty of Rs that say in the same breath "Trump plays 76th level chess and is a genuis" and "How is Trump expected to know what his closest companions are doing" again and again.

There are about ten Republicans that care about the truth, principle, and honesty. The rest of them care only for power, and will do or say anything to keep it.

I wonder how the Q crowd is going to like that Trump just brought Jeffrey Epstein's lead lawyer on board to help run his impeachment defense team.

I'm coming to the sad realization that this impeachment trial is going to be just like the last one. Trump, or his representatives (if he can find a legal team at this point), will not show up. Republican senators will talk about unity and how this is dividing the country. Blah blah blah. Vote to acquit, and done.

Trump has been the no show President (and before that even) in every way, shape, and form.

OG_slinger wrote:

I wonder how the Q crowd is going to like that Trump just brought Jeffrey Epstein's lead lawyer on board to help run his impeachment defense team.

I wish they were that coherent. Or *actually* concerned about actual pedophiles.

JC wrote:

I'm coming to the sad realization that this impeachment trial is going to be just like the last one. Trump, or his representatives (if he can find a legal team at this point), will not show up. Republican senators will talk about unity and how this is dividing the country. Blah blah blah. Vote to acquit, and done.

Trump has been the no show President (and before that even) in every way, shape, and form.

But there will be witnesses and testimony this time, so if nothing else it will take longer.
And if Trump actually shows up... My liver might need replacing.