We used to hear a lot about libertarianism here, and one of the projects of the late 2000's was the "Free Town Project", which landed in Grafton NH. This is a thread to discuss topics related to this, centered on a recent book on the topic but open to all related points. It's *not* intended to be a debate on the merits of libertarianism, but rather a discussion of the real world effects, both good and bad, of the political social experiment in Grafton NH.
And of course, of the bears who brought their own form of libertarian principles to the party. 
About 15 years ago, the idea of a libertarian trial community was mooted, and Grafton NH was selected. Hundreds of people moved there in a few years, took over the town, ripped up every rule, regulation and local ordinance they could, mostly defunded town services, and set out to watch Utopia arrive. It... Didn't work like that.
I always wondered what happened with this. At one point, a Libertarian Party member had a credible run at the Governor's chair, and others were elected to the State House. But things went quiet a few years ago, at least from my perspective, and with all the Trumpism frankly I think libertarianism has fallen out of the public eye. Interesting to see the results.
Anyone have any first-hand experience with this?
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I know that they leaked out into Maine. There's lots of racists-masquerading-as-libertarians trying to get elected, some successfully. The Libertarian party managed to get officially established as a political party a few years back, but they weren't able to maintain it. We've also had some wannabe cult leader try the same tactic of taking over a small town but he didn't attract enough fellow crazies to get far and ended up getting run out of town by the locals. There was also a town manager who got fired for his ties to white nationalists that was trying to get his fellow bigots to move to his town.
The Konami Code taught me everything I need to know about sex.
Reading the book, I can't help but thinking the bears are just another libertarian faction. Not sure if that's the metaphor the author is going for, but I am enjoying the read. Some of the folks he trails along with are just great. It definitely does not seem like a hit job, even though he's skeptical of the practical aspects. He seems to get along with everyone and he's not dismissive at all, so far.
There's an overt humor but it's not directed at the people so far.
The two sides to every story are true and false, not yours and theirs. Facts are not political; lies are. - Deven Green (Mrs. Betty Bowers)
I’d be interested in what you think when you’re done with the book. It looked fascinating!
So far it’s a thoughtful but airy read. Not a big hunk of resentment or anything like that.
The two sides to every story are true and false, not yours and theirs. Facts are not political; lies are. - Deven Green (Mrs. Betty Bowers)
I’ll add it to my list - thanks Robear! For what it’s worth, my move to the left happened to coincide with me starting work for local (county) government. While I still roll my eyes at some decisions, I’ve learned just how much local services mean to a community and why having no zoning or dumping laws is a BAD idea. I’d also say it plays into my thoughts on the whole abolish police movement. I fully support massive reforms and funding alternative resources, but I think some groups are so fired up about ending police that you’ll see exactly what happened in that libertarian town - a massive rise in property crime, proliferation of sex offenses, etc.
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The book is very entertainingly written and currently is delving back into the town and state history, combining the two themes developed so far - hatred of bears, and even more hatred of taxes/laws/regulations, going back to the early 18th century. It'll be interesting to see how he develops these.
The two sides to every story are true and false, not yours and theirs. Facts are not political; lies are. - Deven Green (Mrs. Betty Bowers)
Hey JD! Good to talk to you again.
Yeah, I agree, and I'm seeing everyone who uses that slogan ("Defund tha police!") have to explain that they mean "demilitarize" the police. Which is probably what they should have started with, but hey, grassroots and all that. It's not perfect but if we can get rid of things like qualified immunity, property seizure without trial, and the Blue Wall of Silence, we'll be better off.
I've worked in and around the Federal and State governments my entire career, I'm glad you're getting a better look at it.
The two sides to every story are true and false, not yours and theirs. Facts are not political; lies are. - Deven Green (Mrs. Betty Bowers)
Same to you and I agree with all your points. I just feel torn in the area where I live between Seattle liberals who chant ACAB and the many “back the blue” folks you see in the local community due to the nearby military base.
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The noisy political debates and positions and ideologies have not changed the facts on the ground, ever. Find the facts, consult the experts, that's your best bet to identify good policies. Walk that road and care for others, and you'll be fine and, importantly, consistent in your message to others. Until the facts on the ground change, of course. That's when smart people change.
The two sides to every story are true and false, not yours and theirs. Facts are not political; lies are. - Deven Green (Mrs. Betty Bowers)
My brother left a stable job, burning his employment references in the process, to join that movement. His expectation of the free market welcoming and sustaining him alongside like-minded individuals didn't pan out. Fast forward 3 years and he'd burned through his savings having to return home and live with my Dad.
Almost a decade had passed, but he still doesn't talk about those years. He still nominally thinks of himself as a classical liberal.
A libertarian friend of mine is reading the book, and his first comment was "They aren't really libertarians; they are planning to take over a town!". And the book shows the various problems that entails. (It's a good book for showing, not telling, except of course for the historical bits.)
The two sides to every story are true and false, not yours and theirs. Facts are not political; lies are. - Deven Green (Mrs. Betty Bowers)