2020/21 Soccer Thread: Messxit?

Prederick wrote:

Also, can we truly note how horrible the rollout for this has been? Like, they could've pulled something like this off, but they just did such a monumentally sh*t job.

Yeah, that's a great point. No broadcasters lined up, no players or football luminaries, no big-name supporters. Seems half-baked beyond JP Morgan pumping money into the project.

The first person they had speak out about this in public was Florentino Perez.

Hendo says the Liverpool players say no.

Well, sort of. "We don't like it and we don't want it to happen" isn't quite taking a stand, but nevertheless!

Prederick wrote:

Also, can we truly note how horrible the rollout for this has been? Like, they could've pulled something like this off, but they just did such a monumentally sh*t job.

The backlash against the monitisation of football should have happened when Russia and Qatar were awarded their respective world cups - decisions that had nothing to do with what was best for the game but what was best for the coffers of FIFA and pockets of it's directors.

That it's taken the super league to properly happen is long overdue but the problem now will be "what happens next" - the new CL proposals are just as bad as the Super League and need to be removed ASAP.

If real change is to happen it needs to be taken independently of the football authorities now and imposed on them. At a bare minimal clubs should be forced to have a board member imposed to represent their respective fan bases, answerable to them and not the club's owners or shareholders possibly even with some sort of veto power. I guess that would involve some sort of formal recognition that football in Europe is not just a business, but also something of deep cultural importance. That link of "it's not just a business" needs to be enshrined, somewhere somehow.

Prederick wrote:

Hendo says the Liverpool players say no.

Well, sort of. "We don't like it and we don't want it to happen" isn't quite taking a stand, but nevertheless!

Realistically, that's probably as much as they can say.

Sorbicol wrote:

That it's taken the super league to properly happen is long overdue but the problem now will be "what happens next" - the new CL proposals are just as bad as the Super League and need to be removed ASAP.

That's another thing that gets me about how bad they've f*cked up this rollout. The new CL is literally just the diet Super League!

Prederick wrote:

The first person they had speak out about this in public was Florentino Perez.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/FHmJeC9.png)

Prederick wrote:

Also, can we truly note how horrible the rollout for this has been? Like, they could've pulled something like this off, but they just did such a monumentally sh*t job.

These people are not actually good at business so it's not really that surprising. It's no wonder Perez allies were a bunch of American owners who essentially were asking why their soccer clubs are not more like their American monopolies.

Perez potential innovations included identifying young people have short attention spans therefore matches should be shorter.

Real should be embarrassed that this guy doesn't just go away.

I'd be happy if Arsenal were docked enough points that they were relegated. f*ck Kronke. Clean the whole place out.

This is prime grandstanding hours, as I cannot find it anything other than hilarious that Liverpool have now lost their official global wristwatch and timing partner.

f*cking amazing.

(Also, apparently literally nothing is happening in Brighton v. Chelsea)

Ed Woodward to resign from ManU at end of season.

All 6 English teams have now withdrawn from the European Super League. Thank f*ck. Spineless non apologies from Liverpool, Man U and Spurs, at least Arsenals had the word "sorry" in it.

Where it goes from here will be very interesting to see. I suspect the status quo will endure though, but if it's going to change, now is the time.

Sorbicol wrote:

All 6 English teams have now withdrawn from the European Super League. Thank f*ck. Spineless non apologies from Liverpool, Man U and Spurs, at least Arsenals had the word "sorry" in it.

Where it goes from here will be very interesting to see. I suspect the status quo will endure though, but if it's going to change, now is the time.

Any apology that's better than another just means that club has smarter PR people, which might not even be a positive thing.

As a Spurs fan, I say Levy out, and anyone else who agreed with this.

Imagine all the good, free PR that every big six club passed on by signing up for this horsesh*t. Any team that had taken a stand would be heroes today, and forever.

In other news that does describe why these sh*theads tried this: Schalke 04, CL semi-finalists in 2011, ranked the 14th-most valuable football club by Forbes in 2014, were relegated today.

Prederick wrote:

In other news that does describe why these sh*theads tried this: Schalke 04, CL semi-finalists in 2011, ranked the 14th-most valuable football club by Forbes in 2014, were relegated today.

I'm considering just dropping Arsenal all together and supporting a German club. Maybe Hertha Berlin because any excuse to go to Berlin.

They have Guendouzi and Khedira? Fun!

I use to have a massive soft spot for Wolves in FM because they were fun to take to the top and renovate their stadium. I refuse to be a ex Arsenal and Johnny come lately fan of an already turned around EPL team.

England’s big six have backed down but Super League fight isn’t over

There will be rejoicing in the short term. Rightly so: we have had a glimpse here into the darkness on the other side, the world that lies at the final extension, not that far down our current path, of what football has allowed itself to become. It is a chilling little tableau. But also a case of the house lights coming up, of looking around, a little startled, and realising exactly where you’re sitting.

And this is what football’s actual owners, the supporters whose lives are entwined with these clubs, the regulators and governing bodies must take from this issue.

It has been heartening to feel energy, the sense of ownership, of community roused by this sudden presentation of the facts of where we are. But make no mistake this is simply a retreat, a moment of ceasefire, a phoney peace. There is a theory the amateurishness, the basic weirdness of the ESL’s proposals indicate this was never really an absolute or finished proposal in the first place, but a gambit designed to shock. What kind of super league is this anyway, with 15 teams, three of them from London? Really? What kind of owner springs this on the world, on their own employees, their own captive, loving audience, without comfort, consultation or mitigation?

What kind of person who has ever existed in what passes for the normal world fronts up this power grab with – seriously – a statement from a Glazer, and expects to be greeted with intrigued excitement? This was, and still is, a strange, bodged set of proposals – if, that is, they are to be taken as a serious proposition in the first place. The alternative seems more likely. This was a piece of extreme posturing, a flexing of the overclass muscles. No doubt plenty of those involved wanted this to go through at first pass. But so much of it makes no sense.

What incentive is there for the state of Abu Dhabi to go along with this? Does the world’s richest per capita nation need the money? Yes, Uefa have been enemies. But when your ownership of a football club is essentially a soft power PR exercise, the urge to carry on with a coup d’état is likely to be diminished by this level of toxicity.

The same goes for Abramovich, who also doesn’t need the cash, who does know a bit about joining any powerful cartel going, but who has so much less motivation to go through with this than, say, Barcelona, who are simply terrified by their own debts, their own avarice, their own contorted state.

jowner wrote:

I refuse to be a ex Arsenal and Johnny come lately fan of an already turned around EPL team.

Come to Fulham! We are "European" by definition only, absolutely not "Super," and will soon be in a whole new league!

Well... not new, but y'know.

Also, we forgot to mark this out, but BIG praise to Patrick Bamford for making a great point.

Imagine if fans kept this energy for, y'know, racism.

Relevant to the judgment of whose apologies are the best:

https://twitter.com/SkyKaveh/status/...

Again, better apologies just mean someone hired better PR people; better actions are what count. So congratulations France and Germany, which I legitimately never thought I'd say.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Relevant to the judgment of whose apologies are the best:

https://twitter.com/SkyKaveh/status/...

Again, better apologies just mean someone hired better PR people; better actions are what count. So congratulations France and Germany, which I legitimately never thought I'd say. :lol:

Hmmm. The German clubs maybe, but the only reason for PSGs non-involvement basically boils down to the Qatari’s involvement and investment in BeIN Sports holding so many global TV rights to the various UEFA competitions & European domestic leagues for global audiences. You don’t then join a rival league you have no power in which automatically massively devalues those investments.

As various commentators have been saying, this isn’t over yet. At least it’s been kicked into the very long grass though.

Finally (I speak as a Liverpool fan of nearly 40 years standing) John Henry of FSG has said Sorry

It’s too little too late for the fan base right now.

I say again, the sheer lack of foresight and thinking that went into the rollout of this is absolutely mind-boggling. A clusterf*ck on every level.

@ChrisWheatley_ wrote:

Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli to @CorSport:

"The Super League simulates what young people do on digital platforms in competition with Call of Duty, FIFA or Fortnite."
Put litter in its place symbol

Yes, I left in the emoji text translation, because HOW DO PEOPLE LIKE THIS EXIST

If it were up to Agnelli & Perez, they'd literally make football as much like FIFA Ultimate Team as they could.

EDIT: nvm. sh*tty, unfair sentiment.

Prederick wrote:

England’s big six have backed down but Super League fight isn’t over

There will be rejoicing in the short term. Rightly so: we have had a glimpse here into the darkness on the other side, the world that lies at the final extension, not that far down our current path, of what football has allowed itself to become. It is a chilling little tableau. But also a case of the house lights coming up, of looking around, a little startled, and realising exactly where you’re sitting.

And this is what football’s actual owners, the supporters whose lives are entwined with these clubs, the regulators and governing bodies must take from this issue.

It has been heartening to feel energy, the sense of ownership, of community roused by this sudden presentation of the facts of where we are. But make no mistake this is simply a retreat, a moment of ceasefire, a phoney peace. There is a theory the amateurishness, the basic weirdness of the ESL’s proposals indicate this was never really an absolute or finished proposal in the first place, but a gambit designed to shock. What kind of super league is this anyway, with 15 teams, three of them from London? Really? What kind of owner springs this on the world, on their own employees, their own captive, loving audience, without comfort, consultation or mitigation?

What kind of person who has ever existed in what passes for the normal world fronts up this power grab with – seriously – a statement from a Glazer, and expects to be greeted with intrigued excitement? This was, and still is, a strange, bodged set of proposals – if, that is, they are to be taken as a serious proposition in the first place. The alternative seems more likely. This was a piece of extreme posturing, a flexing of the overclass muscles. No doubt plenty of those involved wanted this to go through at first pass. But so much of it makes no sense.

What incentive is there for the state of Abu Dhabi to go along with this? Does the world’s richest per capita nation need the money? Yes, Uefa have been enemies. But when your ownership of a football club is essentially a soft power PR exercise, the urge to carry on with a coup d’état is likely to be diminished by this level of toxicity.

The same goes for Abramovich, who also doesn’t need the cash, who does know a bit about joining any powerful cartel going, but who has so much less motivation to go through with this than, say, Barcelona, who are simply terrified by their own debts, their own avarice, their own contorted state.

I'm not buying this. It reeks too much of Trump supposedly playing 12D chess, when in fact he's just an idiot in an expensive oversized suit. These a-holes simply figured that after collecting the money and dividing it among themselves, all the hard work was done. When Perez said yesterday that he was 'saving football' he meant it, for guys like him the big clubs ARE football. Part of me can't even blame them, as this is the first time I have ever seen supporters draw a moral line in the sand. Until now fans have been perfectly fine with shady billionaires taking over their clubs as long as it gets them trophies, or with blatant racism as long as it's homegrown.

The idea that some owners wouldn't be interested in getting more money because they already have a lot is also rather laughable to be honest...

Both Athletico Madrid and Inter Milan have withdrawn in the last half hour or so. It’s definitely dead now.

And yes, there’s no grand plan or conspiracy here, it’s rank incompetence from some, and a naivety over the difference between how America and Europe view sport from others.

My problem now is that UEFA are still a colossal part of the problem at a fundamental level with the Football landscape across Europe. The fundamental root and branch reform that required to all the sport to become sustainable across all levels won’t happen with massive reform of UEFA, the domestic FAs and the domestic leagues. The new CL proposals are just as bad as the ESL proposals.

Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli to @CorSport:
"The Super League simulates what young people do on digital platforms in competition with Call of Duty, FIFA or Fortnite."

Says the chairman of... checks notes... “Piemonte Calcio” on FIFA and “Zebre” on Football Manager.

If only we could work out why kids who don't see your name in the most popular football games and can't afford €60-a-month subscription packages to watch your games are disconnecting from Juve!

Mr Bismarck wrote:
Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli to @CorSport:
"The Super League simulates what young people do on digital platforms in competition with Call of Duty, FIFA or Fortnite."

Says the chairman of... checks notes... “Piemonte Calcio” on FIFA and “Zebre” on Football Manager.

If only we could work out why kids who don't see your name in the most popular football games and can't afford €60-a-month subscription packages to watch your games are disconnecting from Juve!

This is an outstanding point. Or points, actually.

Is that because of Juventus or Serie A? Honest question.
I don't know if the rights are sold team by team or by the league/federation.

Both FIFA and FM incarnations of Serie A only feature one team without its actual name.

Sorbicol wrote:

It’s too little too late for the fan base right now.

I get it, I do, but I just worry that anyone with enough money to take their place could be worse.

Mr Bismarck wrote:

Both FIFA and FM incarnations of Serie A only feature one team without its actual name.

I didn't know this! How dumb.