[Discussion] Election 2020

Seems like the board is set. Let’s see how this goes.

I have an undecided at work who has “decided” to follow Larry Hogan’s suit.

I’m supremely disappointed in this person, whom I adore otherwise. I certainly became upset and implored this person to please consider what effect tossing that vote away could have.

Think about your grown children, your someday grandchildren - we have to check this now.

They hold firm that we have checks and balances.... what. No. Not now we don’t. We have one group attempting to play by the rules and the other just saying f it!

A side of me was shown, the passion, anger, and sadness over what this nation has become. Unrecognizable as the place I thought I lived.

I can only hope. Perhaps some reflection may occur.

We've pleaded with my father in law to vote and he's looking likely he's write in Mike Pence again, which is what he did in 2016. Better than voting for Trump, which he was considering.

In Ohio, a Printing Company Is Overwhelmed and Mail Ballots Are Delayed

New York Times wrote:

As the presidential election headed into the final stretch in late summer, counties in Ohio and Pennsylvania worried that a deluge of absentee ballot requests would swamp their printing capacity. So 16 of them contracted with Midwest Direct, a Cleveland mailing company.

But when it came time to print and ship Ohio ballots early last week, it was Midwest Direct that was overwhelmed. Several Ohio counties that expected absentee ballots printed by the company to land in voters’ mailboxes are now scrambling to print them themselves or find a last-minute contingency plan less than three weeks before Election Day.

In Pennsylvania, for instance, nearly 30,000 ballots sent to voters in Allegheny County, which includes Pittsburgh, went to the wrong addresses.

The counties had provided the company with lists of tens of thousands of requests weeks in advance. The company’s inability to meet demand has underscored the stress that mail voting has put on the nation’s election process as the coronavirus pandemic curtails in-person voting. Midwest Direct is the primary outside provider of absentee ballots for 16 Ohio counties, though many also have their own in-house operations.

Midwest Direct is owned by two brothers, Richard Gebbie, the chief executive, and James Gebbie, the chairman. This summer they began flying a Trump 2020 flag above Midwest Direct’s headquarters on the west side of Cleveland. It was a curious juxtaposition — a company in the business of distributing absentee ballots through the mail showing a preference for a president who has spent months denigrating the practice of voting by mail.

“We have freedom to vote for who we want and support who we want,” Richard Gebbie said in an interview last month. “We fly a flag because my brother and I own the company and we support President Trump.”

Mr. Gebbie said he didn’t “have an opinion” on Mr. Trump’s false claims that voting by mail was corrupt and rife with fraud, but he emphasized that the ballots his company mailed met strict security standards.

...

“They overpromised and underdelivered,” said Diane Noonan, the director of the Butler County Board of Elections. “We would get different answers from different people we talked to. Was I happy with it? No I was not.”

With Midwest Direct unable to deliver ballots to Butler County, a suburb of 383,000 people north of Cincinnati, Ms. Noonan on Tuesday decided to print and ship the rest of her county’s ballots in-house.

Ohio is once again a battleground state, after Mr. Trump carried it by eight percentage points in 2016. A poll conducted last week for The New York Times and Siena College found former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. with a one-point lead over Mr. Trump.

The counties with the biggest volume of delayed absentee ballots are urban and suburban counties with large populations. Summit County, encompassing Akron, and Lucas County, which includes Toledo, were two of just eight Ohio counties to back Hillary Clinton in 2016. Butler County, a historically Republican county,gave 61 percent of its vote to President Trump.

Cuyahoga County, which includes Cleveland and is Ohio’s second-largest county, also has an absentee ballot contract with Midwest Direct but has had no problems getting its ballots printed and shipped, according to Mike West, a spokesman for the Board of Elections there.

But some Cuyahoga County voters have reported ballot delays similar to those in other counties.

Pam Ogilvy, a high school social studies teacher from Parma, Ohio, said she requested an absentee ballot in mid-September. The Cuyahoga Board of Elections website first said her ballot would be shipped by Oct. 6, the first day Ohio ballots could be released. A subsequent update said it would be shipped by Oct. 12. Her ballot finally arrived Friday — 10 days after it was first supposed to be mailed.

...

Richard Gebbie declined to be interviewed this week. In a statement released to clients Thursday, he said the delays occurred because counties underestimated the amount of ballots they would need printed.

“It is fair to say today that no one — not the various boards of elections, not Ohio’s secretary of state, not our company — anticipated the staggering volume of mail-in ballot requests that has actually occurred,” he said. “The estimates provided to us from the counties were not what ended up as the reality.”

The Trump flag is no longer flying over its headquarters this week.

In Summit County, ballots from Midwest Direct were delayed until Oct. 10, with the rest of the initial batch of 95,000 not mailed until Oct. 12, according to Tom Bevan, a Democrat who sits on the Board of Elections.

In Lucas County, 60,000 ballots that Midwest Direct promised to send on Oct. 6 were not mailed until a week later, said Pete Gerken, a county commissioner.

And in Pennsylvania, 28,879 voters in Allegheny County, home to the state’s second-largest concentration of Democratic voters, were sent incorrect ballots as part of a batch of more than 32,000 ballots that were mailed beginning Sept. 28, according to the county Board of Elections.

Mr. Gebbie has in recent years made small donations to Republicans running for federal and state office. He gave to Mr. LaRose and Dave Yost, the Ohio attorney general.

Online, Mr. Gebbie has written several public Facebook posts questioning the potency of the coronavirus and he criticized Taylor Swift after she accused Mr. Trump of seeking to dismantle the Postal Service.

Local officials said Midwest Direct offered a variety of explanations for why the promised absentee ballots were slow to be delivered, from mechanical breakdowns to a higher volume of ballot requests than anticipated. Mr. Gerken, the Lucas County commissioner, said there was little communication from Midwest Direct about why absentee ballots were not Toledo-bound.

“We have lost nine to 10 days in the process and those days are not recoverable,” Mr. Gerken said.

For Ohio, the delays in shipping absentee ballots come as Mr. LaRose, the Republican secretary of state, has forbidden counties from installing more than one drop box to deposit absentee ballots. The delay in receiving requested ballots has driven more voters to early-voting sites, which are also limited to one per county.

What a country we live in when two Trumpers--either out of animus or incompetence--can thwart the political will of thousands and thousands Americans in two battleground states.

New York Times wrote:

For Ohio, the delays in shipping absentee ballots come as Mr. LaRose, the Republican secretary of state, has forbidden counties from installing more than one drop box to deposit absentee ballots. The delay in receiving requested ballots has driven more voters to early-voting sites, which are also limited to one per county.

This particular part is pure comedic gold when paired with this blurb from the offical Ohio SoS website.

IMAGE(https://i.ibb.co/jGgshsz/image.png)

Tanglebones wrote:
Archangel wrote:
jdzappa wrote:
mudbunny wrote:

How was it in the end?

God help me I listened to it while I leveled a new toon in WOW.

jdzappa, we care about you, man. Please, please, for the sake of your physical and mental health, don't do this to yourself.

The Trump part or the WoW part?

Thanks all. I’m giving up doom watching of Trump... but I’m not giving up my awesome new paladin.

I think this goes here??

The U.S. Supreme Court has granted the Trump administration's request to speed up the appeal of a lower court ruling that is blocking the president's attempt to exclude unauthorized immigrants from the census numbers used to reallocate seats in Congress
Since the first U.S. census in 1790, the numbers of U.S. residents who are counted to determine each state's share of congressional seats have included both citizens and noncitizens, regardless of immigration status.

I can't wait to hear the Originalist argument that "counting the whole number of persons in each State" really meant only counting white Christians (only the good kind of white Christians, though, not filthy papists).

I'm sure some kind of compromise can be reached wherein non-citizens count for some specific fraction of citizens.

r013nt0 wrote:

Not gonna lie; fundamental changes to our healthcare system, aggressive support for the Green New Deal, eradicating student loan debt, taking our lives and economy back from the autocrats, and ending poverty all mean a lot more to me than "decency."

I don't get this one, and why so many people clamor for it. This is a capitalistic society and the idea of eradicating it just isn't going to happen. Reducing the cost on the other hand is a much more palatable and possible idea.

ranalin wrote:
r013nt0 wrote:

Not gonna lie; fundamental changes to our healthcare system, aggressive support for the Green New Deal, eradicating student loan debt, taking our lives and economy back from the autocrats, and ending poverty all mean a lot more to me than "decency."

I don't get this one, and why so many people clamor for it. This is a capitalistic society and the idea of eradicating it just isn't going to happen. Reducing the cost on the other hand is a much more palatable and possible idea.

Hm. Interesting point of view. Forgiving all student loans and making all higher education free of charge would probably be cheaper than the 2008 bank bailouts, and would definitely do more to stimulate the economy and foster innovation.

BadKen wrote:
ranalin wrote:
r013nt0 wrote:

Not gonna lie; fundamental changes to our healthcare system, aggressive support for the Green New Deal, eradicating student loan debt, taking our lives and economy back from the autocrats, and ending poverty all mean a lot more to me than "decency."

I don't get this one, and why so many people clamor for it. This is a capitalistic society and the idea of eradicating it just isn't going to happen. Reducing the cost on the other hand is a much more palatable and possible idea.

Hm. Interesting point of view. Forgiving all student loans and making all higher education free of charge would probably be cheaper than the 2008 bank bailouts, and would definitely do more to stimulate the economy and foster innovation.

Because at least minimally, ALL higher education being free is dumb. Private schools do and will exist. I am referring to Havard's vs Univ of Phoenix's.
However, pushing free and useful avenues of higher education is a great idea (community college like systems that cover at least up to bachelors).
Along with limits on how loans can be used. I doubt we're dumping loans altogether until UBI is a thing. I do think the current higher educational system should be massively reconfigured.

Dumb in what way? Having freely available higher education doesn’t prevent for-profit schools, it just means that people can learn at other institutions. Think Forpay University has a better program than Freebie U? Go crazy; pay what they’re asking and attend as you wish. But people that will be happy with just having a degree can choose to not have debt. Why is that a bad idea?

EDIT: or are you equating free higher education with “you aren’t allowed to have a school that charges tuition”? Because I don’t think that has ever been the intent.

From a purely economic standpoint, forgiving student loan debt would free up billions of dollars now locked up in monthly debt payments that people could instead spend in local economies. It would also go a long way towards easing economic inequality.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

Dumb in what way? Having freely available higher education doesn’t prevent for-profit schools, it just means that people can learn at other institutions. Think Forpay University has a better program than Freebie U? Go crazy; pay what they’re asking and attend as you wish. But people that will be happy with just having a degree can choose to not have debt. Why is that a bad idea?

EDIT: or are you equating free higher education with “you aren’t allowed to have a school that charges tuition”? Because I don’t think that has ever been the intent.

I was overly harsh using dumb, but BadKen did say ALL, so I went with that.
And to my reading, which can very much be lacking, I have not seen as many detailed plans regarding how to change higher education versus healthcare. I mostly hear "free college" and "forgive student loans". I do not think everyone is trying to be so simplistic, but I do not think the topic has gotten as much attention to detail as healthcare has to this point.

Personally, if our student loans were eliminated my wife and I would instantly buy a new car, hire a housekeeper, and possible move into a new/better house.
Or you know we could send the money directly to billionaires because that’s always better for the nation. I’m sure it will trickle down any year now.

My wife and I graduated college with $80,000 in student loans. And this was in 1998. It easily set our home buying timeline back a decade.

Supposedly there is no such thing as a free lunch, but afaik, investment in cheaper, more accessible, education more or less always pays for itself in the long run.
Living in a country where university is not only free (or at least fairly close; got to pay for your own books and such, though they can usually be bought used), but you are even paid monthly for taking an education, not having 'free' education is as hard to understand as not having 'free' healthcare.

As of Yesterday.

IMAGE(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/702042917514248284/766506251722031114/2020EV_101520.jpg)

2-3 Million people a day are currently voting.

Florida and Texas have both crossed 2 million.

Here's a good site to track it.

Shadout wrote:

Supposedly there is no such thing as a free lunch, but afaik, investment in cheaper, more accessible, education more or less always pays for itself in the long run.
Living in a country where university is not only free (or at least fairly close; got to pay for your own books and such, though they can usually be bought used), but you are even paid monthly for taking an education, not having 'free' education is as hard to understand as not having 'free' healthcare.

This is so true. Over the past ten years or so I have extended this type thinking to incorporate many parts of American life. For instance, if we can dramatically lower American poverty rates It would have a bottom-up effect, (think opposite of trickle-down), that would lower crime, significantly strengthen American industry and the American economy, and many other things that we are not able to foresee.

But there is no political will to do this. The American middle class is so scared losing what it has that we would never be able to do something like this. Lifting up the most impoverished people actually strengthens the middle class, but few see that.

I didn't say what would be the better option just that it's less likely to get passed. I mean lets face it, the odds of seeing wide sweeping changes at the state we're in is very slim. I see moving the goal posts in the right direction a good thing.

My apologies for being unclear. When I said "all higher education" I meant all levels of higher education should be available, not forbidding anyone from charging a fee. Just thinking of the obvious argument that would come up in congress that "sure, we'll make education free, everyone can get an MBA." This country could be cranking out PhD's and postdocs, but our education system has landed those people in gig jobs or middle management.

And talk about return on investment, whoooeee.

Higher education should be free. Harvard and the like being destroyed would just be a bonus.

BadKen wrote:

My apologies for being unclear. When I said "all higher education" I meant all levels of higher education should be available, not forbidding anyone from charging a fee.

Basically, for those who might not be familiar with it, the same way K-12 works in the US now - you can go to a public school, or you (or your parents) can pay for you to attend a private school if that's what you want to do instead. Just make it so that any school that receives funding from a state would be unable to charge tuition. Compensate by matching the state funding with an equal amount of federal funding.

For the few public universities I looked at, a doubling of the money from state funding would more than compensate for the loss of the tuition income. States would be encouraged not to cut funding, since the feds will only match what they spend themselves. Meanwhile, if they do cut funding too far and their schools become terrible, students will just go to a better-funded (and still free) school in a different state.

Yes, funding would probably need to increase anyway just because there would be an increased number of people going to college, and more students means more expenses. So, what, federal funding equal to twice what the state spends? Either way, it seems like it would actually be a relatively simple thing to implement - a lot less pages than trying to write a new healthcare bill, for example.

Totally agree. It’s called investing in your citizens. I don’t see what is so hard to understand about that. What we have is a pay-to-play system and the folks who can afford the price are not willing to let go of the privilege they enjoy when they pay the gatekeeper.

Einstein behind the plow? These days it could be Einstein behind the wheel of an Uber car.

Well one party wants their voters as dumb as possible because that's how they keep them voting against their own interests.

You know how the town halls are supposed to have undecided voters in the audience?

Ever wonder about that female undecided voter enthusiastically nodding and giving thumbs up all the time during his town hall right behind him on camera?


Woman who nodded, gave thumbs up behind Trump in Miami ran pro-Trump campaign in 2018

Mayra Joli, an immigration attorney and pro-Trump activist who once declared herself Miami’s “master of selfies” during her 2018 campaign, was seated behind the president during his hour-long town hall. After the event, she greeted the president, according to a video posted to her Facebook page.
A spokesperson for NBC did not respond to a request for comment on whether or not the network determined who could attend the event. The town hall event was billed as a conversation with undecided voters
ranalin wrote:
r013nt0 wrote:

Not gonna lie; fundamental changes to our healthcare system, aggressive support for the Green New Deal, eradicating student loan debt, taking our lives and economy back from the autocrats, and ending poverty all mean a lot more to me than "decency."

I don't get this one, and why so many people clamor for it. This is a capitalistic society and the idea of eradicating it just isn't going to happen. Reducing the cost on the other hand is a much more palatable and possible idea.

I graduated at 26 with 2 master's and 100k in debt. I ended up working as a courier part-time at FedEx. The jobs I was promised by my advisor never realized. I should never have been given so much money and allowed to go into such debt. I feel betrayed and misled by the educational system. I was 18 when I began, and uninformed. I am furious with the American educational system. People like me aren't asking for a hand out - we are crying out for f*cking JUSTICE.

I think the best thing I did my entire education career was to not get the masters I wanted in the field I wanted but to go to a community college and get a certificate in a field I was meh on that had the backing of the local board that oversaw members of the field.

I think most interviews I got were because I could say I have a board certified certificate from this school. That certificate is what got me in, not the bachelor's degree I had which is technically more schooling.

The schools are selling us on jobs that don't exist because they can charge what they want and they know you have to go through them. Financial intuitions are also making bank on this so yeah burn it down start over.

SallyNasty wrote:
ranalin wrote:
r013nt0 wrote:

Not gonna lie; fundamental changes to our healthcare system, aggressive support for the Green New Deal, eradicating student loan debt, taking our lives and economy back from the autocrats, and ending poverty all mean a lot more to me than "decency."

I don't get this one, and why so many people clamor for it. This is a capitalistic society and the idea of eradicating it just isn't going to happen. Reducing the cost on the other hand is a much more palatable and possible idea.

I graduated at 26 with 2 master's and 100k in debt. I ended up working as a courier part-time at FedEx. The jobs I was promised by my advisor never realized. I should never have been given so much money and allowed to go into such debt. I feel betrayed and misled by the educational system. I was 18 when I began, and uninformed. I am furious with the American educational system. People like me aren't asking for a hand out - we are crying out for f*cking JUSTICE.

Exactly. I got my undergrad based on all kinds of f*cking pamphlets and hand outs from Dept. of Ed., Dept. of Labor, and the U system combined with a steady societal drumbeat of "go to college, get a good job."

I was, and still am, the only college grad in my family. My dad is an electrician and my mom worked customer service in a bank. My dad loved his job but hated the trades (poor employment opportunities d/t economy, dangerous work, poor conditions, etc) when I was younger and all I ever heard from them is that same drumbeat with an extra verse of, "if you want to go to college you better join the Army."

Well, it wasn't until I was a junior that I found out that mental health degrees really don't pay jack sh*t until you have at least a Masters.

If I knew then what I now, (and if, for some damn reason I still wanted to be a therapist) I would have been very aggressive about finding the cheapest undergrad possible and then fighting hard to get into a Master's program with a strong internship program.

But I didn't know those things because I was a broke ass poor kid from rural MN.