[Discussion] Election 2020

Seems like the board is set. Let’s see how this goes.

That’s what gets me — how can they REQUIRE a repayment in order to vote if they can’t even tell people exactly how much they owe.

And the courts signed off on it!!

Maybe our institutions don’t think of voting as much of a right, like us white people have all been led to believe.

firesloth wrote:

That’s what gets me — how can they REQUIRE a repayment in order to vote if they can’t even tell people exactly how much they owe.

And the courts signed off on it!!

Maybe our institutions don’t think of voting as much of a right, like us white people have all been led to believe.

Right! Not being able to explicitly define the bounds of someone's punishment seems like it should be so obviously unconstitutional under the 8th amendment.


The Election That Could Break America - If the vote is close, Donald Trump could easily throw the election into chaos and subvert the result. Who will stop him?

The danger is not merely that the 2020 election will bring discord. Those who fear something worse take turbulence and controversy for granted. The coronavirus pandemic, a reckless incumbent, a deluge of mail-in ballots, a vandalized Postal Service, a resurgent effort to suppress votes, and a trainload of lawsuits are bearing down on the nation’s creaky electoral machinery.

Something has to give, and many things will, when the time comes for casting, canvassing, and certifying the ballots. Anything is possible, including a landslide that leaves no doubt on Election Night. But even if one side takes a commanding early lead, tabulation and litigation of the “overtime count”—millions of mail-in and provisional ballots—could keep the outcome unsettled for days or weeks.

If we are lucky, this fraught and dysfunctional election cycle will reach a conventional stopping point in time to meet crucial deadlines in December and January. The contest will be decided with sufficient authority that the losing candidate will be forced to yield. Collectively we will have made our choice—a messy one, no doubt, but clear enough to arm the president-elect with a mandate to govern.

As a nation, we have never failed to clear that bar. But in this election year of plague and recession and catastrophized politics, the mechanisms of decision are at meaningful risk of breaking down. Close students of election law and procedure are warning that conditions are ripe for a constitutional crisis that would leave the nation without an authoritative result. We have no fail-safe against that calamity. Thus the blinking red lights.

“We could well see a protracted postelection struggle in the courts and the streets if the results are close,” says Richard L. Hasen, a professor at the UC Irvine School of Law and the author of a recent book called Election Meltdown. “The kind of election meltdown we could see would be much worse than 2000’s Bush v. Gore case.”

A lot of people, including Joe Biden, the Democratic Party nominee, have mis­conceived the nature of the threat. They frame it as a concern, unthinkable for presidents past, that Trump might refuse to vacate the Oval Office if he loses. They generally conclude, as Biden has, that in that event the proper authorities “will escort him from the White House with great dispatch.”

The worst case, however, is not that Trump rejects the election outcome. The worst case is that he uses his power to prevent a decisive outcome against him. If Trump sheds all restraint, and if his Republican allies play the parts he assigns them, he could obstruct the emergence of a legally unambiguous victory for Biden in the Electoral College and then in Congress. He could prevent the formation of consensus about whether there is any outcome at all. He could seize on that un­certainty to hold on to power.

Trump’s state and national legal teams are already laying the groundwork for postelection maneuvers that would circumvent the results of the vote count in battleground states. Ambiguities in the Constitution and logic bombs in the Electoral Count Act make it possible to extend the dispute all the way to Inauguration Day, which would bring the nation to a precipice. The Twentieth Amendment is crystal clear that the president’s term in office “shall end” at noon on January 20, but two men could show up to be sworn in. One of them would arrive with all the tools and power of the presidency already in hand.

“We are not prepared for this at all,” Julian Zelizer, a Prince­ton professor of history and public affairs, told me. “We talk about it, some worry about it, and we imagine what it would be. But few people have actual answers to what happens if the machinery of democracy is used to prevent a legitimate resolution to the election.”

I voted today at my county government center in VA. No protesters today. Took 2 hours of waiting.

Republican info tent had an unmasked sh*tbird talking to voters.

Gotta say: my hope for America surviving this election no matter how much Biden wins by is basically zero.

Can anyone give me a glimmer of hope?

I got my absentee ballot a couple of days ago and dropped it off today. The instructions had a large note about what to do "if you don't want to use the US post office" to send it in. I'm pretty sure that was never there before.

Highlander wrote:

Gotta say: my hope for America surviving this election no matter how much Biden wins by is basically zero.

Can anyone give me a glimmer of hope?

Look around the people you know in your daily life. How many of them are frothing-at-the-mouth Trumpanzees?

Highlander wrote:

Gotta say: my hope for America surviving this election no matter how much Biden wins by is basically zero.

Can anyone give me a glimmer of hope?

The Republican strategy was built around the slow process of Jeb! and not the quick strike of Trump? In other words, most of their strategies are not built around such a short timetable?

That's my glimmer of hope--all of their plans were built around a Jeb! or Hillary win in '16, so they're not as prepared as the otherwise would have been.

Jonman wrote:
Highlander wrote:

Gotta say: my hope for America surviving this election no matter how much Biden wins by is basically zero.

Can anyone give me a glimmer of hope?

Look around the people you know in your daily life. How many of them are frothing-at-the-mouth Trumpanzees?

Well outside of work I don’t interact much with others. I’ve got some neighbors who are all in for trump, can’t-make-me-wear-a-mask ignorance. My one slight glimmer I guess is that a different neighbor who had a Trump sign in 2016 doesn’t have one (yet).

But they did come by last weekend to invite me and my immune compromised wife to a fish fry in their back yard. And they were sans masks.

Also my OP was reactionary after reading a Reddit post on the Atlantic article about trump planning to try to get republican controlled houses to send electors that would vote for him despite if the state went to Biden. And yeah I need to read the article itself too.

Jonman wrote:
Highlander wrote:

Gotta say: my hope for America surviving this election no matter how much Biden wins by is basically zero.

Can anyone give me a glimmer of hope?

Look around the people you know in your daily life. How many of them are frothing-at-the-mouth Trumpanzees?

Too many. Potentially enough.

And equally disturbing if not more so are the smart people like my dad who are anything but “frothing-at-the-mouth” but seem to be just as OK with the Trump administration ending our democratic republic as they would be with a Democrat in the Oval Office.

Yeah, it doesn't take many frothing-at-the-mouth people to get control, if a large chunk of the remainder goes "Eh, whatever."

Most people, at the end of the day, here and anywhere, are just looking to get by.

cheeze_pavilion wrote:
Highlander wrote:

Gotta say: my hope for America surviving this election no matter how much Biden wins by is basically zero.

Can anyone give me a glimmer of hope?

The Republican strategy was built around the slow process of Jeb! and not the quick strike of Trump? In other words, most of their strategies are not built around such a short timetable?

That's my glimmer of hope--all of their plans were built around a Jeb! or Hillary win in '16, so they're not as prepared as the otherwise would have been.

I dunno. They seem perfectly fine with speeding up their time table to destroy the country.

I guess the endgame is for the republicans to do a 1979 overthrow of the government a la what happen in Iran and install a Christian theocracy. And they just can’t see why everyone doesn’t want that because they only see themselves as the good guys who can do no wrong.

Sorry if I’m sounding like a conspiracy theorist or anything. I’ve just hit a breaking point today as I’m sure many others have, even more so than me. And I’m venting so this board , that is helping me get through this, can do so again.

Anyway thank you all.

Edit for grammar. “Food guys” was meant to be “good guys.” SMH.

Thinking the republic's going to last until November at this rate may be optimistic.

I was wondering how long that was going to take. The republicans are willing to disenfranchise so many people in their efforts, they are going to try to take it all of the way to after the election

Where's Nomad these days? Would love to hear a Republican's perspective on... check's notes... not having elections.

I'm curious if people like him think we're overreacting yet.

DSGamer wrote:

Where's Nomad these days? Would love to hear a Republican's perspective on... check's notes... not having elections.

I'm curious if people like him think we're overreacting yet.

Funny enough, I was wondering the same thing about Ulairi and Ralcydan just the other day as well.

Oh, who am I kidding. We know what Ralcydan would've said.

There are certain people who will insist that this is an overreaction to Trump's words as they have been for the last four years. These are also the certain people that either will only realize he wasn't kidding when it's too late or are quietly pulling for him to not be kidding.

I’ve never been more terrified about current events than I have been at this moment. It blows 9/11 out of the water frankly.

gewy wrote:

I’ve never been more terrified about current events than I have been at this moment. It blows 9/11 out of the water frankly.

same.

for me, I think it's because everything that makes it more likely that Trump will lose also seems to make it more likely that this will go somewhere really terrible.

(a few edits)

The same things making us anxious are also making us hopeful. It's less like 9/11, and more like someone you love being in surgery that could either heal them or they could never wake up.

Everything (coronavirus, protests, Trump stealing RBG's legacy, etc.*) that makes it more and more certain we won't have four more years of Trump because he won the election also seem to be making it more and more possible that there could be four more years of Trump because he stole the election. The same things that make him so unpopular are also making him (and his collaborators) desperate enough to try anything.

It's like a nightmare version of LeBron talking about how many championships he was going to win with the Miami Heat.

"how many terms, Mr. Trump?"

"Not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7..."

*I think there's extra anxiety because so many of those things promise to lead to important change if we get through Trump. Trump is like some risky vaccine for fascism--it's triggered Democrats the way a vaccine triggers antibodies, I just hope we can survive the side effects!

All situations are ugly. The best option just doesn't limit us as much to make things better

So, Arnold Schwarzennegar is all kinds of awesome.

Today I sent a letter to nearly 6,000 elections officials and county commissioners in states formerly covered by Voting Rights Act Section 5 inviting them to apply for grants, funded by me, to reopen polling centers and improve voting access.

Then later down the twitter thread:

The grants are completely non-partisan and will be offered to those who demonstrate the greatest need and ability to close gaps in voting access. The process will be run through @GovArnoldUSC.

Well I am in suburbia surrounded by Trump signs and flags. We don’t talk politics but I assumed my African American neighbor with the transgender daughter would probably lean left.

And then they hung a Trump flag in their yard this week.

I am beginning to despair. It feels like his support has increased in my neck of the woods. I hope reports of suburbs supporting Biden are true elsewhere but it sure isn’t that way here.

DSGamer wrote:

Where's Nomad these days? Would love to hear a Republican's perspective on... check's notes... not having elections.

I'm curious if people like him think we're overreacting yet.

I’m here. I don’t post much anymore. Tired of people not actually reading what I write. This is a great example.

I am not a Republican. I have mentioned this many times. I think Trump is a train wreck. I have mentioned this many times as well, both before and after he was elected.

Docjoe wrote:

Well I am in suburbia surrounded by Trump signs and flags. We don’t talk politics but I assumed my African American neighbor with the transgender daughter would probably lean left.

And then they hung a Trump flag in their yard this week.

I am beginning to despair. It feels like his support has increased in my neck of the woods. I hope reports of suburbs supporting Biden are true elsewhere but it sure isn’t that way here.

I have little bits of hope for the area (SW metro at least). Yes, the worst are getting louder, but I'm also seeing little things, if not pushing back, making it clear the Trump sh*t is not acceptable. Not sure how that will translate electorally.

lunchbox12682 wrote:
Docjoe wrote:

Well I am in suburbia surrounded by Trump signs and flags. We don’t talk politics but I assumed my African American neighbor with the transgender daughter would probably lean left.

And then they hung a Trump flag in their yard this week.

I am beginning to despair. It feels like his support has increased in my neck of the woods. I hope reports of suburbs supporting Biden are true elsewhere but it sure isn’t that way here.

I have little bits of hope for the area (SW metro at least). Yes, the worst are getting louder, but I'm also seeing little things, if not pushing back, making it clear the Trump sh*t is not acceptable. Not sure how that will translate electorally.

I'm confident Minnesota's 10 electoral votes will go to Biden. Not confident enough to vote third party like I did in 2016, but confident. I have no idea how my wacky district will do. Like Doc and lunchbox, my suburb is plagued by Trump signs, though they elected a Democrat for state rep and U.S. congress in 2018. Hoping that sanity prevails again.

JLS wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:
Docjoe wrote:

Well I am in suburbia surrounded by Trump signs and flags. We don’t talk politics but I assumed my African American neighbor with the transgender daughter would probably lean left.

And then they hung a Trump flag in their yard this week.

I am beginning to despair. It feels like his support has increased in my neck of the woods. I hope reports of suburbs supporting Biden are true elsewhere but it sure isn’t that way here.

I have little bits of hope for the area (SW metro at least). Yes, the worst are getting louder, but I'm also seeing little things, if not pushing back, making it clear the Trump sh*t is not acceptable. Not sure how that will translate electorally.

I'm confident Minnesota's 10 electoral votes will go to Biden. Not confident enough to vote third party like I did in 2016, but confident. I have no idea how my wacky district will do. Like Doc and lunchbox, my suburb is plagued by Trump signs, though they elected a Democrat for state rep and U.S. congress in 2018. Hoping that sanity prevails again.

two reasons to be (sorta) optimistic from what I've been reading: one, Minnesota's got the best fundamentals for Democrats of 'blue wall' states because of its high levels of college educated voters--if Biden loses Minnesota, he's probably lost the states all the way to Pennsylvania. Two, the Trump campaign signs are free, but you have to buy the sign if you want the Biden campaign to send you one.

cheeze_pavilion wrote:
JLS wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:
Docjoe wrote:

Well I am in suburbia surrounded by Trump signs and flags. We don’t talk politics but I assumed my African American neighbor with the transgender daughter would probably lean left.

And then they hung a Trump flag in their yard this week.

I am beginning to despair. It feels like his support has increased in my neck of the woods. I hope reports of suburbs supporting Biden are true elsewhere but it sure isn’t that way here.

I have little bits of hope for the area (SW metro at least). Yes, the worst are getting louder, but I'm also seeing little things, if not pushing back, making it clear the Trump sh*t is not acceptable. Not sure how that will translate electorally.

I'm confident Minnesota's 10 electoral votes will go to Biden. Not confident enough to vote third party like I did in 2016, but confident. I have no idea how my wacky district will do. Like Doc and lunchbox, my suburb is plagued by Trump signs, though they elected a Democrat for state rep and U.S. congress in 2018. Hoping that sanity prevails again.

two reasons to be (sorta) optimistic from what I've been reading: one, Minnesota's got the best fundamentals for Democrats of 'blue wall' states because of its high levels of college educated voters--if Biden loses Minnesota, he's probably lost the states all the way to Pennsylvania. Two, the Trump campaign signs are free, but you have to buy the sign if you want the Biden campaign to send you one.

However, Minnesota isn't invulnerable or in great shape all over as the DFL seems pretty useless outside of the metro and Duluth. I won't be surprised if at least the state senate stays in GOP control, even if Biden takes the state.

lunchbox12682 wrote:
cheeze_pavilion wrote:
JLS wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:
Docjoe wrote:

Well I am in suburbia surrounded by Trump signs and flags. We don’t talk politics but I assumed my African American neighbor with the transgender daughter would probably lean left.

And then they hung a Trump flag in their yard this week.

I am beginning to despair. It feels like his support has increased in my neck of the woods. I hope reports of suburbs supporting Biden are true elsewhere but it sure isn’t that way here.

I have little bits of hope for the area (SW metro at least). Yes, the worst are getting louder, but I'm also seeing little things, if not pushing back, making it clear the Trump sh*t is not acceptable. Not sure how that will translate electorally.

I'm confident Minnesota's 10 electoral votes will go to Biden. Not confident enough to vote third party like I did in 2016, but confident. I have no idea how my wacky district will do. Like Doc and lunchbox, my suburb is plagued by Trump signs, though they elected a Democrat for state rep and U.S. congress in 2018. Hoping that sanity prevails again.

two reasons to be (sorta) optimistic from what I've been reading: one, Minnesota's got the best fundamentals for Democrats of 'blue wall' states because of its high levels of college educated voters--if Biden loses Minnesota, he's probably lost the states all the way to Pennsylvania. Two, the Trump campaign signs are free, but you have to buy the sign if you want the Biden campaign to send you one.

However, Minnesota isn't invulnerable or in great shape all over as the DFL seems pretty useless outside of the metro and Duluth. I won't be surprised if at least the state senate stays in GOP control, even if Biden takes the state.

Agreed.

Reaper81 wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:
cheeze_pavilion wrote:
JLS wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:
Docjoe wrote:

Well I am in suburbia surrounded by Trump signs and flags. We don’t talk politics but I assumed my African American neighbor with the transgender daughter would probably lean left.

And then they hung a Trump flag in their yard this week.

I am beginning to despair. It feels like his support has increased in my neck of the woods. I hope reports of suburbs supporting Biden are true elsewhere but it sure isn’t that way here.

I have little bits of hope for the area (SW metro at least). Yes, the worst are getting louder, but I'm also seeing little things, if not pushing back, making it clear the Trump sh*t is not acceptable. Not sure how that will translate electorally.

I'm confident Minnesota's 10 electoral votes will go to Biden. Not confident enough to vote third party like I did in 2016, but confident. I have no idea how my wacky district will do. Like Doc and lunchbox, my suburb is plagued by Trump signs, though they elected a Democrat for state rep and U.S. congress in 2018. Hoping that sanity prevails again.

two reasons to be (sorta) optimistic from what I've been reading: one, Minnesota's got the best fundamentals for Democrats of 'blue wall' states because of its high levels of college educated voters--if Biden loses Minnesota, he's probably lost the states all the way to Pennsylvania. Two, the Trump campaign signs are free, but you have to buy the sign if you want the Biden campaign to send you one.

However, Minnesota isn't invulnerable or in great shape all over as the DFL seems pretty useless outside of the metro and Duluth. I won't be surprised if at least the state senate stays in GOP control, even if Biden takes the state.

Agreed.

oh sure--in fact, they really *should* be using signs because in downballot races there's more reason to be confident in the effectiveness of signs, as name recognition is a bigger deal the farther down the ballot you go.

Just that as far as the original questions of Biden losing Minnesota or what all those signs mean, there's reason for optimism there. Minnesota has the best fundamentals of all those states, and the reason you're seeing so many Trump signs can't be automatically chalked up to enthusiasm. There's also a split in campaign strategy that could explain the Trump:Biden sign ratio.