https://www.gamespot.com/articles/gh...
In an interview with Ghost of Tsushima creative director Nate Fox, he told me, "The game is definitely scripted to provide more storms as you do things which are extremely Ghost driven."
That's strange, since I barely ever do anything Ghost-related and yet it seems to be constantly thundering and raining.
huh
I am not completely clear on what makes ghost stuff. Are all kills that are not duels ghost? Like snipping away at people before going into the camp? Or is it just using weapons on the ghost section of the skill tree?
I assume it is the first bit because I am getting a lot of rain and I do that a lot to soften up the mobs before going in.
Yeah early on in Act 2 I felt like it was constant stormy weather, it started to get annoying. At this point I finally learned I could play my flute to clear the weather.
That's strange, since I barely ever do anything Ghost-related and yet it seems to be constantly thundering and raining.
huh
I was going to ask about that actually - it seemed like when I went into Act 2, it started thundering pretty much constantly. I get that the environments in the second act lend themselves to gloomy oppression a bit more (swamps, dank forests, grey mountains) but I thought it was a bit OTT.
I pretty much constantly use the flute to clear the terrible weather, just because it kind of doesn't really show the environments off all that well - grey low cloud and booming thunder is just boring.
r013nt0 wrote:That's strange, since I barely ever do anything Ghost-related and yet it seems to be constantly thundering and raining.
huh
I was going to ask about that actually - it seemed like when I went into Act 2, it started thundering pretty much constantly. I get that the environments in the second act lend themselves to gloomy oppression a bit more (swamps, dank forests, grey mountains) but I thought it was a bit OTT.
I pretty much constantly use the flute to clear the terrible weather, just because it kind of doesn't really show the environments off all that well - grey low cloud and booming thunder is just boring.
I also wonder about what actions caused the stormier weather to emerge. I was definitely sniping lookouts, and I wasn't averse to assassinating folks if needs be... but after I got some armor and charm upgrades, I tended to wade through camps like a scythe of doom. Ooh, I wonder if any ghost weapon use (bombs, kunai, distractions, etc) also accumulated these hidden weather points? I was not shy about using those.
But yes, i was also playing the Sun'll come out, Right Now! song a lot. I preferred it to the constant rain and thunderstorms. Or fog.
Ooh, I wonder if any ghost weapon use (bombs, kunai, distractions, etc) also accumulated these hidden weather points? I was not shy about using those.
I don't even really use the tools. Just roll up, challenge idiots to a standoff, then slaughter everyone around with my sword. I do sometimes shoot people with the bow, so that's the only thing I can think of that might be considered a ghost tactic, though that doesn't really make any sense.
I think basically any kill where the enemy is unaware of you - so not just square button 'Assassinate' kills, but bow kills before the enemy has clocked you, kills using smoke bombs etc. And maybe any 'ghost tool' like Kunai, black powder bombs, etc, as you say.
To be honest, since there's no gameplay consequence apart from a lot of extra flute playing, no biggie I suppose.
To be honest, since there's no gameplay consequence apart from a lot of extra flute playing, no biggie I suppose.
"That's what she said" award of day.
Finally got the platinum trophy today. Didn't take much more effort after beating the game either so worth the effort as most come naturally as you play.
Have to say I'm not a fan of the "more storms because you sneaky sneak and stab" mechanic. It's kinda annoying and given that I like to sneak. I find that I'm constantly playing the flute for my sunshine again. I get it, but it'd be nice to switch this off as an option.
I'd also love a New Game + mode. You get some pretty epic charms and gear that it would be nice to use more than just killing random patrols.
The one really good design decision that I loved was the supporting characters. They each had their own stories and missions and it felt good to do those. Almost felt like companion quests without the annoyance of having to take them as companions. Doesn't make sense as a game to have companions to join you like it would in Mass Effect etc so the way they handled it here was really good.
Overall, this is 100% my kind of game. Nice big open world with things to do and see. Beautiful visuals, compelling story and gameplay that is fun in both normal combat and stealth. Haven't seen a game do all of these things this well in a long time and really would love more of this. Right now, this is my game of the year, but Cyberpunk is coming and I have a feeling that that will be everyone's GoTY.
I'm nearly done the second act, will probably head into the third some time today.
The pathing for the bird is possibly one of the most obviously flawed aspects of the game. From very early on I'd start following it only for it to vanish in a hill. There are a lot of uniquely designed forests where it gets tripped up. I've seen at least three different occasions where it's effectively been flying into a wall, and then vanish as the game resets its position. It is possible this has happened more since I'll be following it, only to then completely lose track. It also seems to show up at every gift alter regardless of whether there's a gift there or not.
It has certainly made following it to a new location frustrating at times, but it also seems to matter a lot less as I've started to emphasize hitting up strongholds and outposts first. Defeat one, and it marks a bunch of undiscovered locations on your map, allowing me to just follow the wind. Which, in some ways, stinks because it turns it into that typical Ubi-formula with less discovery. Fortunately, I've still reached plenty of opportunities to scan the horizon and spot the smoke of a fire in the distance, or a lighthouse by the shore.
In fact, best epic quest so far:
The Spirit of Yarikawa was probably my favorite, though mixed with Tadayori's Armor. Having to scan the horizon for the smoke led me to seeking high points to look above the trees, which means I was thinking about my environment and its topography. Unfortunately, it sort of has you darting back and forth one small area so it didn't result in a lot of searching. Nonetheless, it was nice that there were some quests that required me to study the land instead of following
my nosethe wind.
In regards to the storms, I actually didn't notice it until you guys brought it up. I've noticed that there will be thunder claps when I pull off an assassination, a nice little theatrical addition. I don't mind the constantly changing weather. The game certainly looks most beautiful during clear skies, but the variety of weather effects has certainly added some mood.
I also noticed that there's always a tune that plays when you are in the proximity of an Inari Shrine, and it actually led to me finding one before I found the accompanying fox den. Nice little touches throughout the game that make me curious how a "No HUD" and No Map playthrough would go, relying on the environment and smoke in the distance to find your way. I think, however, there's so much foliage and too many buildings are copy-paste that it'd take a lot to actually familiarize yourself enough with the island to find your way easily (after all, a No Map run would also include no waypoints. Or, perhaps, just remove the icons from the map? Hrm).
Regarding the combat, I had a realization as I spoke with my friends the other day. The one thing that trips me up is how you select between Kunai, Sticky Bombs, and Smoke Bombs. The way the game has been set up, I feel like the D-Pad or Face Buttons determine "style swapping" based on which trigger you're holding down. If you hold down the Left Trigger, the left side of the controller, the D-Pad, is relegated to swapping between ranged styles (Half Bow, Long Bow, or Thrown). Hold down the Right Trigger, and the right side of the controller, the Face Buttons, are relegated to swapping between your melee stances.
Unfortunately, my brain doesn't make that connection. If I'm in the heat of battle and think to swap between Kunai and a Smoke Bomb or Sticky Bomb, I hold R2 and press the face buttons. It feels more intuitive to me if the D-Pad were for styles (so keep it the same when holding L2, but when holding R2 tie melee stances to the D-Pad) and ammo types to the Face Buttons. I'm effectively using the face buttons for ammo swapping for all three ranged options, be it arrow type or thrown type, that it just feels more instinctive to also assume that's where the ammunition will always be.
It's a small thing and takes some adjustment, but I think it would encourage experimentation far more. There's a sort of "relational" element attached to each portion of the controller, and especially for a system where I was spending the early parts trying to figure out where which weapon type was.
Then again, I've not really used as many as those tools as I could as melee options have expanded.
Standoff + Ghost Stance + L1 & R1 attack whose name I forget = 7-9 dead... and evidently I'll be getting armor that'll increase standoff kills beyond 3, so uh... yeah... Managed to complete a duel with Ghost Stance and an L1 + R1 followed by a perfect parry and took no damage.
I've said this game is the "Assassin's Creed I've wanted since the first", and while that's not wholly true, it's certainly hitting a lot of the "I'm a typhoon of death come to rain your own blood upon you" notes that the series drifted further and further from. It's funny because it's no wonder I needed a break from the earlier parts of the game. That first act is huge, but the experience doesn't really change up enough to justify the game's length. By the second act, you start unlocking enough abilities that the combat, stealth, and exploration are more varied and thus it feels less repetitive to fill out that time and exploration. That the second act is also more condensed helps.
I'm curious to see how the third act will switch things up, as I've nearly filled out the skill trees.
Finally got the platinum trophy today. Didn't take much more effort after beating the game either so worth the effort as most come naturally as you play.
I agree, "mopping up" mode is easy. Remember that clearing all the encampments (?) (the "red" points on the map) in one of the three areas will clear the map for the ENTIRE area. The only thing that's "tough" after that, and makes me wish I'd known about it earlier so I could have worked on it over the course of the game, is the hidden trophy...
..."Honor the Unseen," to bow to 10 hidden altars, since they aren't on your map and there's no guiding wind for them. Which is surprising since you also end the game with one extra unspendable technique point. I'll have to use a guide for that one to get the platinum.
In hindsight I regret all the time I spent worrying about riding around in Traveler's Attire because it didn't ultimately make a difference. It didn't help me find anything useful any faster, and there's not even a trophy for the artifacts it indicates.
I also ran out of things to buy well before finishing the game; I should have switched out the charm for extra loot (Charm of Inari) earlier, as each upgrade gave diminishing returns, and the high level ones are more gated around story reward supplies than the common ones the charm gives you. I ended the game sitting on 7,000 supplies I can't use, even after fully upgrading all the extra armor I never used.
Nearly every critic I've seen discussing the game: "The writing is passable but nothing special."
Me, finishing the Yuriko quest line:
It is rather odd that they are not more impactful. I mean many of the side quests are just as emotional as stuff in the Witcher 3 - betrayal by students, loss of family, etc. but they just don't feel as weighty. Perhaps it is the delivery. It is good but doesn't move me much.
Witcher 3 also had two previous games to flesh out the characters. I love this game but there's not a lot of personality. The moments are hitting for me and I'm invested in the characters but I'm not having the same strong reactions I've had in other games.
For me I think some of the problem is that you have very little agency in the game.
Your choices -such as they are- don't matter. You cannot take action to alter the path of a quest line. You have no effect on the world through your action other than bringing populations back to farms. There's no change to your Uncle's reaction to you if you don't play Ghost-like. You don't get to make any type of decision regarding the end of Act 2 as it is happening, and your previous play style doesn't make a difference to the way it plays out either.
The game would -and I can't believe I'm saying this- benefit from a Paragon-style system, as Jeff Gerstmann said in last week's Bombcast. Too often I find myself just feeling completely like a passenger in the story they want to tell. That works for me in a game with writing of a higher caliber, like LoUp2, but this game isn't at that level.
I don't mind linear story telling. I actually mostly prefer it since I don't trust video game writers to make compelling or logical outcomes based on those decisions. Witcher 3 even suffered from this and I consider that my favourite game of all time and the best representation of the form. There is a big disconnect in Ghost between your actions and the implications of your Uncle and the Khan but I never expected anything more than lip service. I think, in this case, they are going for a homage to Kurosawa films without realizing the intense personality that Mifune and other actors brought to their rolls.
Although Murder Grandma and Bad Teacher are very good. There's some outstanding facial animation with them.
Having just finished Act 2 and started Act 3, I think there's three things going on that keeps the story from feeling as good as other prestige games these days do.
The first is presentation. A good chunk of narrative information between characters is conveyed either through gameplay, typically while riding a horse, or while characters stand around with lazy camera. It's pulled back, no close-ups, and words are spoken. This is why a lot of the side quests unrelated to named characters don't really deliver the same emotional impact as they could convey. In fact, one such example is the Flesh and Stone side quest:
It is a quick side quest that, if you're more melee-combat than stealth combat, can probably be finished inside of five minutes. Within that brief time span, the player finds a son that is lamenting his father's statues being busted up. You go to find his dad's tools so the son can carry on his work, only to find his dad alive and working for mongols. Slaughter the mongols and listen to his dad talk about how he loves art and serves it over his family. Only, oh no! Mongols found his son and killed him (though I didn't realize this until afterward because the camera was pulled back too far for me to notice the new stain on the ground that was his son). So more combat, and then the dad cries.
The structure is basically "go here, fight things, go here, fight more things, quest end". The premise of the side quest isn't bad, as the context is a father only learning how his family is more valuable than his art or how his family gave his art meaning after losing it. But it's conveyed in a cheap manner.
However, this is why Yuriko's concluding quest was so good. Again, spoilers.
There's no combat in Yuriko's second quest at all. Every action is contextualized by Jin's concern for a woman whose mind is no longer completely there and is starting to die. The prior mission introduced the deterioration of her mind, and this mission makes it clear she's nearing death. It's, admittedly, also rushed and a tad sloppy, but for the conclusion of this mission it works. The camera gets proper cinematic as the two sit together, and Jin not only realizes that Yuriko thinks he's his dad, but is revealing information that had been kept secret for Jin's whole life. You can see the confusion in Jin's expression as he struggles to figure out how to answer, and then decides to go along with it. And I think it is Jin's motion and face capture that helps this scene.
There's a lot going on here. A loved one starting to suffer mental deterioration to the point they are confusing you with someone else. Finding out that she was, at least for one night, your dad's secret lover. Knowing that she's sick and possibly dying, only to conclude with a peaceful death as you help her recollect the best day of her life.
The set-up through the past couple missions was sloppy since she had just been introduced and they were squishing all of this into a small space, but the actual execution of that moment, I think, was pretty solid. It may not work for everyone, but it worked for me, and I'm usually an "All the Feels" skeptic.
Presentation is still only the first part, though. The second is the open world itself. Act Two was a long string of content whose story had some really good and solid momentum, but there was a problem in some of its set up for the events that were coming. How much time is spent with the main characters in the beginning, middle, and end of Act Two? In fact, how much is happening in Act Two? How long does the player spend there?
More specifically:
We don't have a lot of conflict between Shimura and Jin regarding his "Ghost" identity. We have him sort of hand-waving it away when Act One concludes and Act Two begins, he brings up the adoption with his mid-act mission without any further mention of Jin's Ghost antics (that I can recall? It didn't seem to be a point of contention), and then at the end of Act Two it's basically "Don't embarrass me in front of the Shogun's men!" We suddenly have all this conflict that was simmering under the surface but not really dwelt upon or demonstrated.
Note that I'm very much a "show don't tell" sort of person (see above with Jin's emotional response and expressions versus outright stating his feelings), but there's nothing even shown. It's insinuated and hinted at and mostly commented on with side characters here and there, but Jin and Shimura's relationship itself is pretty flat until that moment.
So when you combine the presentation with the open-world nature of the game, you get very very small snippets where the game tries to build character or develop on ideas with very few scenes allowing for pay-off. I think the one character that gets enough screen time to really be a character is Yuna, though they do a decent enough job with the others as well.
But this leads me to the third part, which is more a comparison/curiosity combo. After finishing Act Two, I can see a version of this game that's closer to inFamous in its good side/bad side execution. In particular, closer to inFamous 2, where you had one character representing "good" and the other representing "bad".
And then at the end they swapped morality seats in a neat little twist.
I can see a version of Ghost of Tsushima that had Shimura and Yuna representing different aspects of a morality scale, where you either strengthened your samurai powers or your ghost powers. Where you got a different ending depending on which morality you chose. I can see that game because I played it three times already. It was called inFamous, inFamous 2, and inFamous Second Son. And while I dug each of those games, the only one whose story was really noteworthy was inFamous 2, and only if you treated the "good morals" ending as canonical. Which is part of the issue with that whole morality thing. Which ending is the real ending, and how do you structure your thematic meaning around it?
If you're Mass Effect, everyone loves Shepard and follows him regardless if he's a nice upstanding guy or an outright jerk. It has no impact on the greater story on the whole. If you're Dragon Age, you at least make it a bit more interesting by having some decisions impact relationships with side-characters.
But honestly, I'm fine with what Ghost of Tsushima is doing. I think it can tell a better consistent story by having its character be just this version of Jin rather than making them wishy-washy based on player choice.
It's a bit ironic, however, that removing morality as a system means the player is more free to play however they want (samurai vs. ghost or a mish-mash based on the situation), but then runs the risk of contradicting the nature of the story. The game's narrative assumes Jin is using ghost tactics left and right. The player, however, may not make use of such strategies and instead roll into every stronghold with a stand-off. Therefore the freedom to play as you want is not reflected in the narrative. A more free narrative in inFamous made for a clunkier story and less player freedom since you were basically locked into a single path of upgrades. Ghost of Tsushima has a less free narrative but then allows the player more freedom in mechanical choice.
I'm curious to see how the game concludes. My first theory as to the game's theme was that honor is a privilege of the wealthy, and while that's still kind of there, it feels closer to being "the honorable aren't so honorable" given every samurai character you run into has some dirt in their background or behaves contrary to what the code demands.
We'll see how it winds up.
Finished. Drained almost every drop out of it. Very well done game. I don’t feel the need to go back and get the few remaining shrines of honor or haiku spots.
End game spoiler that was well done.
the controller heartbeat vibration slowing and stopping if you choose to kill your uncle
Just thinking back, this game had some truly epic goose bump moments. Not just one but quite a few throughout.
There is little I can do to add to ccesarano's take on why Yuriko's quest was more effective than some of the others. But, it probably helped that most of us can identify with the events in the Yuriko quest line more. It's unlikely many of us ever have, or ever will, deal with our entire family being killed, or having a student turn against us and try to destroy us. But we can imagine knowing, maybe even BEING, Yuriko. If something similar hasn't happened to us already.
For as good as the Yuriko quest is, it really kind of glances over the heavily implied context for some old relationships.
At first, I was like, "Does that mean...?".
And then, I was like, "Wait, biology doesn't work that way."
In hindsight I regret all the time I spent worrying about riding around in Traveler's Attire because it didn't ultimately make a difference. It didn't help me find anything useful any faster, and there's not even a trophy for the artifacts it indicates.
...buuuuuuut if you're a completionist it looks like the latest patch makes the Traveler's Attire much more useful. A firefly will appear and lead you to nearby collectibles. This is good, because I definitely spent too much time just trying to figure out where something was based on controller vibration. This might get me to go back and clean up the last non-trophy ones! (Now if only it helped with some of the "investigation" tales...)
beeporama wrote:In hindsight I regret all the time I spent worrying about riding around in Traveler's Attire because it didn't ultimately make a difference. It didn't help me find anything useful any faster, and there's not even a trophy for the artifacts it indicates.
...buuuuuuut if you're a completionist it looks like the latest patch makes the Traveler's Attire much more useful. A firefly will appear and lead you to nearby collectibles. This is good, because I definitely spent too much time just trying to figure out where something was based on controller vibration. This might get me to go back and clean up the last non-trophy ones! (Now if only it helped with some of the "investigation" tales...)
The bugged out flag guy made me so angry. It keeps rumbling but there's nothing to collect!!!
And yes the investigations needed a better interface.
Oh, forgot to complain about the worst thing. R2 is used for pick up and interaction. So it's very easy to do the wrong one.
Days Gone had a similar issue until they patched it to be separate buttons.
beeporama wrote:In hindsight I regret all the time I spent worrying about riding around in Traveler's Attire because it didn't ultimately make a difference. It didn't help me find anything useful any faster, and there's not even a trophy for the artifacts it indicates.
...buuuuuuut if you're a completionist it looks like the latest patch makes the Traveler's Attire much more useful. A firefly will appear and lead you to nearby collectibles. This is good, because I definitely spent too much time just trying to figure out where something was based on controller vibration. This might get me to go back and clean up the last non-trophy ones! (Now if only it helped with some of the "investigation" tales...)
Ah! I was wondering about that. I started feeling like I was crazy and somehow never noticed the firefly before. Didn't realize it was because he was patched in. Oddly enough, it feels like they reduced the severity of the controller vibration once he shows up, and that threw me off as well.
I just completed all the side quests but have like 35-40% of the last portion of the map still uncovered. I've been surprised at how much I've stuck with this game the past week but I'm starting to get fatigue again. I'm so close to getting everything, like 1-5 away from every type of collectible save the banners and the vanity gear. It makes me wish the last bit was more condensed. I want to collect as much as I can before I beat the game rather than after.
On the whole I'm not too bothered with the quantity of collectibles, as all of them feel right about where they ought to be considering where I am at this stage of the game. However, there's one exception, and that's the banners. Especially for an Act Three spoiler:
Once you lose your horse, you can't change saddles. So there's no way to use the last saddle decorations you find, far as I can tell. The option to change saddle types is removed, and if you hand banners in to get a new saddle, you can't even look at it in the menu. You hold options and... it takes you to the gear screen. That's it.
So not only do they have more banners than is necessary, but you can't even use their reward anyway because your horse dies. Unless you get a new one in the last mission or after you beat the game but at that point who cares because the banners are likely the last thing you complete anyway because who really prioritizes banners over the other collectibles?
The Tale Of Ryuzo quest has been a bit of a weak one in parts. What made things worse was before I'd got the quest I'd literally cleared both the landing site & lighthouse areas. They were back to being fully populated for this story quest.
The enemy placement for easy stealth kills in this area is on the verge of tutorial material too. The part that really broke any immersion was after defeating the Mongols at the lighthouse,
you hatch a plan to steal a boat, to look for food out on the ships. The landing area is full of enemies on the beach, so you send a bunch of archers to fire at the camp from a cliff that overlooks it. They rain down fire arrows to give you & Ryuzo a chance to make it across the beach. Its a visually interesting scene
but once your down on the beach the enemies are again standing about in a daze like idiots waiting to be stealth killed. There's no running for cover, their not sending men out to engage the archers, while fire is engulfingthe beach they stand & look up at their attackers like they've had an entanglement cast on them. It just comes of as this wooden encounter that should have been epic. Its something I'd expect to find in Skyrim.
I'm still enjoying the combat & having enough fun overall but there's only been bits of the story I've been engaged in. The side stuff has been throwaway a lot of the time. Like Chris said above I'd love a far more condensed version of GOT. Far too many repeated elements, the fox's & birds are a cool little touch but they come up again & again.
The camera is problematic in the extreme at times & has gotten me killed multiple times in combat. There was once on a ship were the stairs lead down to a lower tier, I end up seeing the wooden structure as I turn the camera around to see my attacker. Two seconds later I'm dead as my view is completely blocked to see the incoming attack. This happens in large scale fights a lot too with different bits of the environment getting in the way.
That all comes across as a bit negative but I do think there's enough here, especially with the deadly combat, stances & upgrades that make it worthwhile, plus the environments are great to roam.
Spoiler:Once you lose your horse, you can't change saddles. So there's no way to use the last saddle decorations you find, far as I can tell...
Unless you get a new one in the last mission or after you beat the game but at that point who cares because the banners are likely the last thing you complete anyway because who really prioritizes banners over the other collectibles?
You do get another horse to wear the saddles. But I agree that the saddles are a weaksauce reward... to me the real "reward" are the little stories Jin tells when handing over the banners.
And beaten and Platinumed. I used a guide for two of the hidden achievements.
The story quests are the best and for that I'd honestly love a "New Game +" mode, where I can just run through (on a harder difficulty?) and repeat the story and supporting character side quests. Of course, considering how many abilities are plot-centric I imagine you'd need to lock select abilities away for a while nonetheless.
Overall the game would have been better if it were smaller, but I'm honestly surprised I enjoyed it as much as I did. I like Jin and his companions even if their stories were a bit up and down in parts. It feels like the game's narrative and ending is true to the spirit of Japanese story-telling and samurai film right up until the end. I can see where they may have wanted a morality system in play, including a bit of a Spec Ops "Don't you feel bad for doing this now?!" element, but I think the story is stronger for being linear.
I feel like it sits around the 80% range if we're going by Metacritic standards and feels. It does a lot of stuff well that it feels like an exceptional game at times, but there's too many flaws for it to be truly exceptional. Still, a solid note for Sony's first party games to go out on.
Uncle who failed to save the country is all honor honor honor.
But I stealth killed half the enmy army. Thats called winning.
Uncle is mad at me. AITA?
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