Good Afternoon.
I am hoping someone can help me understand why I am having issues using a mechanical keyboard.
--Long Story--
Let's start at the beginning. I have owned a Logitech G910 (Orion Spark) for about 2 years and have struggled mightily with typing on it. I do believe that the spacebar is broken as pressing on the right side does not register at all and the key sticks. What does happen and I don't understand is that keys will double type and sometimes triple type. I would say it is quite random. Had to stop using it for anything other than playing games. Played with keyboard settings and cleaned the board thoroughly. I even bought new keys that were flat top. This was an expensive board (in my opinion) and then more so with another $30 bucks to replace the keys. Little changed and I ended up using two keyboards.
After getting tired of two keyboards, but really enjoying the feel of mechanical keys as well as the cool per key lighting, I ordered another board, the Logitech G213. I failed in my research on this as the same problems exist with typing, but the damned thing only lights in "zones", no per key illumination.
Now I have the Razer Cynosa Chroma and really missing the mechanical keys. No typing issues though and the per key illumination is back to what I like. Another tech/gaming forum was basically saying that mechanical keyboards were for gaming and not business. The sensitivity was not geared well for typing. This seems odd to me, but every year I get older, I loose my comprehension of these things.
So, here I am looking at another keyboard on-line (SteelSeries Apex 5) wondering if it is just me or whether something out there meets my needs. Do I just not understand how mechanical boards work and just need to go back to two keyboards?
--Short--
Looking for a Mechanical Keyboard with per key lighting that works for both work and play.
Tried the below:
Logitech G910 link
Likes:
+the feel of the keys
+the individual key lighting
+already familiar with Logitech Gaming Software
+dedicated Media Keys
Dislikes:
-repeating keys
-original keycaps with finger wells
Logitech G213Prodigy link
Likes:
+ mechanical keys (although, slightly quieter)
+ dedicated Media Keys
Dislikes:
-repeating keys
-no per key illumination (five zones)
Razer Cynosa Chroma link
Likes:
+ per key illumination
+ software for gaming light modules
+ typing is solid
Dislikes:
- no mechanical keys
- no dedicated media controls
Any advice or knowledge to help me would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you and stay safe.
Mark (Sparkie13)
I'm no help with what keyboard to get, but the Logitech G910 has a two year warranty. I would've sent that sucker in!
Other than that, I frequent see folks recommending the Das Keyboards. You'd have to use their software and spend a bit more money.
Money might be the main issue. Since the G910, you've been trying to get a nice, cheap mechanical keyboard with premium features and it doesn't necessarily exist. 
Hey garion.
Unfortunately, I have no proof of purchase/receipt on the G910. Have not gotten any sort of response from Logitech for any help on this issue, to date. It is a rough time for support these days. This may even be just beyond the 2 years.
What I found alarming was that buying a brand new G213 (2 months now), it is exhibiting the same behavior as the G910. Did not know if this was a common issue with mechanical, gaming keyboards and I was trying to use it for something that it was not catered to. Just odd that it being a keyboard and typing it is bad at.
Was not looking at the Das Keyboards, but they do seem nice.
You are hitting the nail on the head as I have sprung for boards that are cheaper than the original G910. Am just leery to spend north of $100 on another board if what I am looking for does not exist.
I thank you for the input. Is nice to be able to talk about this as all in this house are pretty tired of me and my keyboards....or maybe just me.
So, a few thoughts.
One, the G213 is not a mechanical keyboard. It's a rubber dome board just like the Cynosa. Neither has any form of mechanical switch.
The G213 Prodigy gaming keyboard features Logitech Mech-Dome keys that are specially tuned to deliver a superior tactile response and performance profile similar to a mechanical keyboard.
Calling it "mech-dome" is some dishonest/misleading marketing BS. Logitech needs a solid slap for this one.
The Steelseries is also apparently a rubber dome board with some kind of mechanical bits sandwiched in or on top or something. I'd personally be leery of it but Rtings liked it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Second, your description of the repeating keys issue makes me lean toward it being either software related, or some kind of other hardware conflict, maybe USB related or something.
The fact that you had the issue on the 910 that uses actual mechanical Romer-G switches, and then also on the G213 which has no mechanical switch of any kind at least implies there is something else entirely going on. The keys couldn't function in more different ways between the two boards. The only common denominator between the two is that they're Logitech and use the same software.
But the G213 and Cynosa function exactly the same way. The issue going away on the Cynosa reinforces the issue being software related or maybe a hardware conflict related specifically to Logitech's USB implementation.
Troubleshooting this would probably lead to tons of CPU usage monitoring, DPC Latency checks, and a bunch of other fiddly testing.
My only quick and easy suggestion at this point would be to maybe try a board that uses cherry style mechanical switches. It's the thing you haven't tried yet and they kind of set the standards for mechanical keyboards. Unfortunately, they aren't going to be cheap, and now with the virus thing going on it's a weird time to walk into a Microcenter and put hands on a bunch of keyboards to try switch types out. If they'll even let you.
If you decide to try a cherry mx based board, just maybe don't get a Logitech, lest you find out their software is the cause of the repeating keys.
The "mechanical keyboards are for gaming, not business" people are... well that's a weird stance to take. I'll leave it at that.
Just don't get MX Blue or other super clicky switches if you're in a cubicle and have other people around. A few days of the noise and your coworkers will probably be waiting for you in the parking lot on your way out.
***As an aside, have you tried plugging the board I to a different USB controller? Like if it's plugged into a 3.0 port, try plugging it into a 2.0, or the reverse? Probably not a fix, but at least an easy thing to try.
I do believe that the spacebar is broken as pressing on the right side does not register at all and the key sticks.
I've never used the G910, but your description of the spacebar is also reminiscent of a poor quality keyboard. If that's a new development, it's possible something broke, but I've seen keyboards that always had that problem. I just popped the spacebar off my IBM Model M to take a picture. It's got a metal bar that connects it to a hinge, so it's always even no matter where the pressure is applied, and it's 36 years old.
It looks like the Romer-G switches in the G910 are a Logitech proprietary switch. Razer has also been using propriety switches. I'm with Thin_J. I'd recommend trying keyboards with Cherry switches. If there's anything nearby like a Best Buy that might have a bunch of keyboards on display, I'd check their inventory and see if it's worth stopping by. Hopefully they'd have keyboards with 3 or 4 of the more popular switches to try.
When it comes to actually making a purchase, Steelseries and Das Keyboard have good reputations. I like WASD, but some people are turned off by the ABS keycaps and sharper corners. They're also heavy.
The Wirecutter has some good information on different layouts and reviews. My opinions differ, but it's still a good read: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/our-favorite-mechanical-keyboards/
The WASD site has a pretty good guide on most aspects of mechanical keyboards, but of course it's also promoting their stuff:
https://www.wasdkeyboards.com/mechanical-keyboard-guide
The "mechanical keyboards are for gaming, not business" people are... well that's a weird stance to take. I'll leave it at that.
I wont! LOL. I don't know if IBM was the OG mechanical keyboard manufacturer or not, but the IBM Model M is probably the "hipster" mechanical keyboard. I think anyone capable of touch typing hates mushy, crappy keyboards. You're almost always typing into a terminal or application on one part of the screen while looking at another. You want a keyboard where exactly one keystroke registers exactly when you expect it to, by feel. Having to constantly second-guess the keyboard kills my productivity and drives me nuts.
Welcome to the forum, sparkie.
Let's start at the beginning. I have owned a Logitech G910 (Orion Spark) for about 2 years and have struggled mightily with typing on it. I do believe that the spacebar is broken as pressing on the right side does not register at all and the key sticks. What does happen and I don't understand is that keys will double type and sometimes triple type.
Honestly, that just sounds like a lousy board to me. Logitech's quality has been taking a huge nosedive over the last five years, and I would avoid them now entirely if you can. Don't buy anything they make, because it will be cheap construction and will suck. Their mice used to be wonderful and extremely durable, for instance, and these days you're doing well if you get two years out of one. (the buttons fail).
After getting tired of two keyboards, but really enjoying the feel of mechanical keys as well as the cool per key lighting,
Ok, so, you're looking for a mech-feeling board with customizable backlighting. Do you like actively clicky keys, or would you prefer something quieter and/or smoother? For instance, buckling spring keyboards are super loud but amazing to type on once you get used to them, with a really resonant click when they activate. But they sound like machine gun fire and will make you unpopular with those nearby.
You can get quieter switches that click, slightly quieter switches that have a tactile bump but no click, and then slightly quieter again switches that have a smooth throw. Even the quietest mechs are a little bit clacky in my experience, but the smooth-throw ones aren't bad, and you can put O-rings under them to quiet them down a bunch as well. (note, however, that this means taking off more than a hundred keys on most keyboards, installing O-rings, and then reinstalling the keys. Unless you're very quick, this will probably take more than an hour, and is very boring.)
Basically, once you define roughly what feel you want, and what noise level is acceptable, that will help us point you at the correct switch types. Then it's a matter of finding a board that uses those switches with a lighting scheme you like.
Another tech/gaming forum was basically saying that mechanical keyboards were for gaming and not business. The sensitivity was not geared well for typing. This seems odd to me, but every year I get older, I loose my comprehension of these things.
I would remove that tech/gaming forum from your reading list, at least for keyboard opinions. They are giving you extremely bad advice. Mechanicals have been used in business since at least the 70s, and maybe earlier. The very first IBM PCs had buckling spring keyboards, the insanely loud kind I mentioned earlier, and were a huge selling point to the computers, one of the reasons they were so popular and became so dominant.
Do I just not understand how mechanical boards work and just need to go back to two keyboards?
There are a lot of keyboards out there. We should be able to find you a mechanical with a feel that makes you happy, which will reliably type one character when you hit a key, which will last, and which will have at least acceptable lighting. (Complex multi-hue lighting is kind of expensive, so omitting that or scaling back can save money.)
It's silly money for a keyboard, but I love my Corsair K95 RGB Platinum. The lighting options are almost too flexible, but I love that I can assign specific per-key lighting setups to a specific game and have it automatically switch over when I launch the game. 3 years in, and it's still as good as new.
But honestly, it really shines as a typing keyboard, not a game controller.
When it comes to picking a specific type of key, you can get a tester that has one of each key-type. Admittedly, it's tossing another $20 onto the cost, but it's a one-time cost, then you know what you're getting into.
I’m pretty fond of that same keyboard. I went with they cherry browns when I bought mine, as I use it both for work and gaming purposes and they work well enough for either. The thing I like the least is no ‘on board’ programming, everything has to be done through software and so configured per machine. There is an open source program that works on both Mac OS and Linux. When I was using a MacBook Pro for work, it seemed like every other update to the program ended up causing it to randomly peg a CPU which was annoying. The Linux version has run smoothly enough though.
Hey Thin,
I came from the Logitech G15 keyboard before all this and was quite happy with that. Must have had that thing for 8-10 years before that gave out. Decided to stick with Logitech because of that one.
The G213 was on sale and seemed to be a decent replacement. Guess I just figured "Mech-Dome" was still mechanical. The keys had the height, but not the feel of the G910. The no per key lighting disappointed me.
I thought it was USB related also. Tried it without a hub, on 2.0, on 3.0 and no change. Tried two other computers, no change. Used it with G-Hub software, with Logitech Gaming Software and no software. Again, no change. Adjusted the Windows keyboard settings (repeat delay, rate), nothing.
With working from home these days, my wife complains when she hears the dull "thud" of the G213's spacebar. I will certainly keep the idea of quieter switches in mind.
deftly,
Ended up pulling the spacebar from both keyboards and snapped pictures. Funny how the G213 seems a better design with the metal bar.
G910:
*edited out until I can figure out how to embed a picture from my computer*
G213:
*edited out until I can figure out how to embed a picture from my computer*
Will start to read up on these different switches. May have to glove up and head to Microcenter or Best Buy to get a better feel. I know the local Microcenter has not had a great selection of stock to choose from lately.
Thank you for the links.
Malor,
I am starting to get the impression that there may be quality issues with Logitech. Had many years with their products without complaint, but I may have to look outside that company.
At this point I need to get my hands on some boards to test the feel. I do like the per key lighting ability and was the major reason I kept using the G910. As for the sound, I kind of enjoy it, but like others here have pointed out, the people around me may kill me.
Jonman,
I have seen that Corsair and it does look nice. The price has kept me from seriously looking at it, but considering that I have put this much effort into this, who knows.
The Tester is not something I have come across and is much appreciated. Will look at that route if I cannot test boards in the store.
Thank you all. Will report back shortly.
It's silly money for a keyboard, but I love my Corsair K95 RGB Platinum.
fwiw, Amazon currently shows it on sale for $200 -> $130, with a limited stock.
Sparkie, another key type to consider is Topre; these are basically the best rubber domes on the market. They're really thick domes with springs underneath, which set off capacitative sensors. When you first get them, they're kind of nasty and awful like most rubber domes, but after a few weeks they break in and become exceedingly comfortable. The combo of rubber and springs is awesome. They're also very quiet, making a subdued little 'thwock' sound as you type.
This is definitely a pro/con situation though, as you're trading away other features.
Pros:
Very quiet
Very comfortable
Maybe the best keyboards for extended, production typing.
Super durable
Almost spill-proof; that solid rubber sheet is damn near impregnable.
Cons:
Expensive as hell. (have to buy a Topre Realforce; they had a cheaper Type Heaven keyboard for awhile, but stopped making it.)
No lights. (can't get light through rubber.)
Not quite as good for gaming, because keys activate at the bottom of the stroke. This makes it feel a little sluggish. You can get used to this, but something like, say, Cherry MX Red switches activate near the top of the stroke, and feel much crisper and more responsive.
That keyboard would be very popular with your wife, and your fingers will love it if you do a lot of typing. (again, after a few weeks, they're kind of horrible at first.) But no lights, and a little slower to respond to keypresses; if you're really into fast-action games, that could matter.
FWIW, I switched away from one of those to my current Corsair K95 with Cherry MX Reds. Reds are a smooth-travel key with a nice feel. They weren't really my first choice (I wanted Clears, which are basically hard-push Reds), but that was the best option at the local store. I ended up liking them a lot, and the keyboard has given me no trouble at all. I think I've had it about four years, and it works just as nicely now as it did when I bought it. Further, if something does break, I think I can probably buy replacement switches, though I haven't needed to try that.
fwiw, Amazon currently shows it on sale for$200-> $130, with a limited stock.
merphle
Thanks for the heads up. The one that is on sale seems to be the MX Speed version. I was close to clicking buy on this but my concern is the following Q&A on Amazon:
"Question: What different between cherry mx brown / cherry mx speed?
Answer: The GUNMETAL K95 keyboard only comes with the Cherry MX Speeds. The Speeds are VERY sensitive (“hair-triggered” or "touchy") and linear. That's what you want for gaming so your inputs register as quickly as possible. Such a keyboard, however, is not ideal for everyday typing and would take a long time to get used to and your typing would be very error-prone. The BLACK K95 keyboard comes with a CHOICE of either the Cherry MX Speeds OR the Cherry MX Browns. The Browns are NOT linear—they are TACTILE, aren't nearly as touchy as the Speeds and make for wonderful everyday typing and a good compromise for gaming. see less
By Randy M. on April 2, 2019"
This a good assessment of this particular switch?
I am not a speed/twitch gamer nor attempt to be. Just like the feel of a mechanical key. I mainly play tactics type games where you have time to think.
Browns are a medium-strike "bumpy" key; they have a detent that you push through and can feel, kind of like a click, but only in your fingers. However, the detents and click mechanisms in Cherry keyswitches don't activate when the key does, they're purely cosmetic. For that reason, I personally stick with smooth Cherry mechanisms, but not many people share my distaste for non-functional clicks.
Browns are slightly louder than smooth switches, but substantially quieter than clicky mechanisms like Blues or Greens. Your wife probably won't mind them too much. And you can put O-rings under them if they're too loud; this softens the bottom of the stroke and quiets them down a bunch.
Malor
Do you think the MX Speed switches are going to similar to what issue I am currently suffering?
Such a keyboard, however, is not ideal for everyday typing and would take a long time to get used to and your typing would be very error-prone.
Again, I should physically get my hands over these keys to feel for myself.
Free returns at Amazon - can always buy, try it out briefly, and send it back if it's not to your liking. Assuming you have Amazon Prime.
(this is what I'm doing, btw - keyboard should arrive in a few days 
)
Browns are a medium-strike "bumpy" key; they have a detent that you push through and can feel, kind of like a click, but only in your fingers. However, the detents and click mechanisms in Cherry keyswitches don't activate when the key does, they're purely cosmetic. For that reason, I personally stick with smooth Cherry mechanisms, but not many people share my distaste for non-functional clicks.
Browns are slightly louder than smooth switches, but substantially quieter than clicky mechanisms like Blues or Greens. Your wife probably won't mind them too much. And you can put O-rings under them if they're too loud; this softens the bottom of the stroke and quiets them down a bunch.
I have a Cherry Brown K70 and I really barely feel the detents at all. I may be a slightly heavier handed typer but I've never experienced any chronic false or double key presses... unless I've spilled coffee on it of course.
IMO its a great keyboard and Browns I think are the best compromise between "gaming" and "typing". I do plenty of both with this keyboard.
I've got Cherry Browns on my K95, and they're not that much louder than the cheap Dell dome-keyboard on the other side of my desk that I use for my work machine.
They're superb for typing, never had any problems with typing errors. The detent is very slight - I don't even notice it. My understanding of the point of the detent is that it commits the key to moving - if you've put enough force onto it to overcome the detent, that key is going to continue to go down once you're past the detent. Makes for a crisp feel to the keys, without the tangible click.
One thing I will say is that this keyboard has taught me to be a much lighter typist - the keys don't require a lot in the way of force to push.
I also game on this keyboard, but I'm a middle-aged gamer. Competitive twitch shooters aren't for me anyway, keyboard or not.
Malor
Do you think the MX Speed switches are going to similar to what issue I am currently suffering?
Such a keyboard, however, is not ideal for everyday typing and would take a long time to get used to and your typing would be very error-prone.Again, I should physically get my hands over these keys to feel for myself.
I've never used an MX Speed; I've typed a little on Greens, Blues, and Blacks in a Micro Center, and live daily with these Reds. And I've extensively used Topres, Model Ms, and those glorious old Northgate keyboards.
But Speeds? I dunno Speeds. I wish I could help, but my opinion would be worthless.
edit: well, I can say that I think Reds are at about the maximum useful sensitivity. They activate at about, hmm, just eyeballing it, maybe 4mm into the stroke? You couldn't get much lighter without ending up with spurious keystrokes from slight finger brushes.
edit: I looked it up, and MX Reds have a 4mm total strike length. They activate at 2mm, and un-activate at 1.8. I am, clearly, very poor at estimating metric distances.
I think the MX Browns sound like what I would want as far as balance between work and game and noise. Now to find one around that I can test or return that is not an arm and a leg. In Corsair it is only the K95 and K70 that offer the browns. Nothing at physical stores around here.
**edit - Thank you all for the ears. This has been incredibly helpful and pleasant.
OK, next question.
How is the lighting effect on the Corsair K70 and K95 from those that have them?
The reason I ask is that in having the two Logitech boards I was quite happy with the illumination. The individual keys were very noticeable. When I use the lighting on the Razer Cynosa Chroma it is washed out. Meaning that the background takes away from the keys. Am hoping this is just the rubber membrane that is doing that and it will not exist on the true mechanical ones.
I will post some pictures once I figure how to do that. Feel free to help me on that one also.
Do you have any pictures of your illuminated boards in action?
Thanks
How is the lighting effect on the Corsair K70 and K95 from those that have them?
For the K95, it's great. My desk is slap bang in front of a big window. Key illumination is obvious and visible in all lighting. There's a button right there on the keyboard to cycle through 3 levels of brightness (and a fourth for 'off'), but I leave it cranked to the max.
The configurability of it is superb. Each key can be individually set up, or you can set them up in groups. For instance, this is my everyday use setting.
It was garish at first, but very quickly my peripheral vision adjusted to pick up the details and locate where my fingers need to go without barely looking at it. The picture doesnt' show it, but I've got the F, J and F5 keys set to pulse different colours as they're home keys for typing (and F5 for refresh page).
I also have a dark room setting that's just the home row illuminated. Also a "disco" setting that puts all the worst, most garish, blinky effects on, just to show people what it could look like.
I set up custom configs on a per-game basis, and bind them to the .exe for the game so they auto switch when I launch the game, and revert back when I close it.
It required some work on the front end setting them up, and gaining familiarity with the config software, but at this point, I can set one up in a couple minutes for a new game.
The whole white line across the top of the board, and the Corsair logo is also a set of a dozen or so individual lights, but I've got them off.
OK, next question.
How is the lighting effect on the Corsair K70 and K95 from those that have them?
Thanks
I don't use the lighting and mine is an older model so it only has Red lighting and its not customizable. You can either light up the whole keyboard or just the WASD cluster . It does have 4 brightness settings though.
I have an older K95 with just red lighting, like Carlbear, but mine is even less customizable than his. There's a button you can press to change the lighting between off and three levels of brightness.
That's it, all the customization it has. This is fine for me, as I turn the lighting off anyway. I don't look at the keys, so them being lit up is just a distraction at the edge of my vision.
So, I ended up finding a refurbed K95 with MX Brown switches for a good price. Really like typing on this thing and have had no issues. This is a solid keyboard.
The iCue software was not very intuitive for me and I will be tracking down some tutorials. Other then cycling through preset profiles, I have not been able to figure out how to configure my own settings easily.
In other news, Logitech finally responded to me on the the issue for the G213. Did a bevy of simple checks and they will be looking to send me a new G213 (figures, since I really did not like it). However, I was able to update the firmware on the G910 and it works fairly well (minus the space bar issue). My son is eyeing this up as my daughter has taken the Razer Chroma, lol.
You guys have been great and I appreciate all the help and advice.
Now I am onto find a replacement for my 7 year old mouse that just started double clicking everything.
Never ending.
Take care and stay safe.
K95s are surprisingly common here, I hadn't realized how many of us had them. Glad you like the Brown switches; they should serve you for many years.
I wouldn't have bought these Reds except they were the only thing available; good thing I ended up liking them as well as I do.
I think the K95 is a really nice middle ground between typical so-so ‘consumer’ keyboards and keyboard-nerd gear. I wouldn’t be too surprised if it was a common jumping off point for people who end up in the rabbit hole of the latter.
The iCue software was not very intuitive for me and I will be tracking down some tutorials. Other then cycling through preset profiles, I have not been able to figure out how to configure my own settings easily.
I've had my K70 for years and I have no clue what iCue software is. Does it actually add something?
sparkie13 wrote:The iCue software was not very intuitive for me and I will be tracking down some tutorials. Other then cycling through preset profiles, I have not been able to figure out how to configure my own settings easily.
I've had my K70 for years and I have no clue what iCue software is. Does it actually add something?
Lighting and macro configuration, mostly.
If your old K70 doesn't have per-key lighting, it's a lot less useful. On my garish K95, it gives mad customizability for lighting setups.
Now I am onto find a replacement for my 7 year old mouse that just started double clicking everything.
Find the one that fits your hand and is comfortable for you to use and ignore everything else.
Definitely don't fetishize the sensor. I had a Logitech G402 (until it broke, Logitech sucks these days), and its sensor was amazing. It was incredibly quick and precise, and could handle motion far faster than I could physically hope to generate. Yet, if you believed reddit and so forth, it was terribly inferior to the one in either the 502 or 602, forget which.
Yes, on paper, the 402 wasn't as fast, but that meant it was five times faster at tracking than any movement humans could make, where the better sensors were eight or ten times faster. In practical terms, you'd see pretty much zero difference.
Other than size and overall comfort, the other thing I'd pay attention to is the thumb buttons; make sure they work well for you the way you normally grip the mouse. I use claw grip, and the thumb buttons on the G400 I'm using now are a bit of an awkward reach. They're well suited to palm grip, but kind of suck for us claw people.
Its funny after so many innovations in mice, I find myself almost never using any buttons other than the RMB/LMB and the wheel, and only when browsing do I use the "back" button by the thumbs. Maybe its the way I grip the mouse as Malor describes, but I even find the middle mouse button to be terribly inconvenient and I have a mental block that tells me I will accidentally move the mouse wheel so I never actually use it. Games that say "Hold the middle mouse button to do XXXX" (usually RTS / City builders) I almost always try to find keyboard shortcuts.
For productivity, my use case is spreadsheets, so knowing excel shortcuts is so much more valuable than assigning more button presses.
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