[Discussion] So... How's that democracy working out for you?

Is democracy a system capable of dealing with the challenges of the future, and if not, what alternatives exist?

Axon wrote:
cheeze_pavilion wrote:
Axon wrote:

And going back to Trichy's post, proportional representation get voters out of that mindset of them and us. It's might take several cycles but it does eventually get there.

I guess I still don't understand how this is going to work in practice. It's an idea with merit--that the logic that a winner-take-all system sustains 'triabalism'--but who are the groups you're looking at?

Like, not just talk about an abstract voter belonging to an unidentified group. An actual population with specific grievances sustained by a feeling of negatively disproportional representation, where those feelings are having a negative impact on the country.

Because when I look at it, the most negative impacts of 'them and us' are coming from people--(not all) white people--who are already disproportionately represented, but punching above their weight! I don't understand how telling someone already in the mindset of 'them and us' that they're going to *lose* power is going to change anything.

The people disproportionately represented below their weight are not the populations where the hate and problematic 'tribalism' is coming from.

I mean, you say "Almost as if plurality systems favour the ruling majority...?" but it doesn't. The U.S. Senate (and to a lesser extent the Electoral College) is proportional representation, it's just proportional to the states, not identity groups. Which has the knock-on effect of favoring the ruling minority. And it's that minority that all the nasty 'tribalism' is coming from.

*cut*

I tried disentangling your insults from your points, but they're too intertwined, and I'm not going to repeat someone's verbal abuse of me for them. If you want someone to deal with your points, learn to make them independent of your insults, or you know, don't make the insults in the first place? I don't deserve it, you shouldn't sink to that level, so just STOP IT

I've re-quoted and bolded the simple, critical question, Axon. All you're being asked to do is apply your experience with both systems to the actual country you think has one system, and would be improved by the other.

(edit) let me try and help by restating my point in the clearest, simplest terms I can: I see the major problem in America as this: one 'us' hates 'them', but the other 'us' doesn't hate 'them', they just hate being hated! The major problem in America is not 'us' vs. 'them', it's the paradox of tolerance.

Maybe by putting it like that and answering my own question, you can see that I'm not doing any of the stuff you're accusing me of, I'm just asking you to get a little less abstract and start plugging some facts into your theory?