[News] Coronavirus

A place to discuss the now-global coronavirus outbreak.

Stele wrote:

Insurance companies should stop covering them. Or charge insane amounts for premiums.

If we're going to keep this capitalism thing then let's f*cking embrace it. I don't want to pay higher premiums next year because Johnny Unvaccinated cost $50k in the ICU before he died this year even though he could have had a free vaccine.

Threaten to bankrupt him and his whole GQP family for not getting a vaccine.

I know many of us have these feelings and is often blowing off steam, but let's remember that how easily this line of thought can apply to many avoidable medical issues.

*Legion* wrote:
fangblackbone wrote:

And if we could put them in a vacuum, that would be much easier to swallow :(

Can we like, make a new Australia to send them to? Antivaxia, a utopia untouched by mask mandates or 5G towers or syringes or doctors. Go grab your freedoms!

There's a huge continent way down south that's almost uninhabited. Lots of land for everyone! I'll even let them rename it to Freedumbtica if they want.

Stele wrote:

Insurance companies should stop covering them. Or charge insane amounts for premiums.

The company I work at did introduce an unvaccinated surcharge this year which I was glad to see. But now they are getting rid of it, which is very disappointing. They do still have surcharges for smoking and for being fat.

lunchbox12682 wrote:
Stele wrote:

Insurance companies should stop covering them. Or charge insane amounts for premiums.

If we're going to keep this capitalism thing then let's f*cking embrace it. I don't want to pay higher premiums next year because Johnny Unvaccinated cost $50k in the ICU before he died this year even though he could have had a free vaccine.

Threaten to bankrupt him and his whole GQP family for not getting a vaccine.

I know many of us have these feelings and is often blowing off steam, but let's remember that how easily this line of thought can apply to many avoidable medical issues.

Unavoidable issues as well. If it weren't for The American Care Act I wouldn't have health insurance. The issue with being self insured is that even if you can afford it, not all health service providers will provide care to cash customers. It's so bad that there are "insurance providers" that really only pass through medical bills but look like an insurance company to healthcare providers.

I have been lucky enough to work from home through the entire pandemic, so I have developed a pretty low risk tolerance, so I would like to share my current public place masking system. Since Omicron started I have been using standard disposable N95 masks, but I have found them inconvenient to put on and off, have had a hard time getting a really good seal, and even though the filtration is fine for repeated uses, I have found that the elastic bands lose a lot of their tension after just one or two uses. I figured there had to be a better reusable solution.

I did my homework (at the CDC website, NIOSH website, and the websites of certified mask manufacturer's, *not* random facebook pages), and found there is. The NIOSH N95 certification is actually the lowest of 9 related NIOSH standards where the other 8 are as good as or better than the N95 standard in every way*. I found that there are readily available reusable masks with a variety of filters most of which meet the highest of the 9 standards; P100 (P>R>N and 100>99>95). The drawback to most of these masks** is that they are designed for the wearer's safety in industrial situations, not for disease control, so they have an exhalation valve that vents the wearer's breath unfiltered. Fortunately there are a few with 'source control' in the form of either no exhalation valve, or a filtered exhalation valve.

I ended up going with a 3M 6300 (6000 series large) half mask with 3M 2091 P100 filters, and the 3M 604 exhalation valve filter, but there are other options. I find it is much more comfortable than a paper N95, I find it easier to put on and off, and I get a much better seal than with a paper N95. On the down side I do look like a steam punk cosplayer or the like, but I am personally fine with people thinking I'm a weirdo.

I am not any kind of medical professional or expert of any kind, so don't take this as expert guidance. Do what you would like with this information.

* per the CDC website under the heading "NIOSH-Approved Respirators" half way down the page.

** technically 'reusable half mask respirators'

Ha! On the advice of someone upthread, or maybe in the Tales sub, I grabbed some actual N95's at Home Depot. Haven't tried them out yet but they've got to be more comfy than these dang over the ear KN-95's from Amazon.

Top_Shelf wrote:

Ha! On the advice of someone upthread, or maybe in the Tales sub, I grabbed some actual N95's at Home Depot. Haven't tried them out yet but they've got to be more comfy than these dang over the ear KN-95's from Amazon.

KN95s are too small here in Greece, at least for my big American mug.
I wear the next best thing, FFP2, which is supposed to be 94% effective, vs. the KN-95's...95% effective.
The particular brand I found has a very small, thin layer of cushioning on the inside of the mask at the nose piece, and for the most part the seal is good enough that I no longer steam up my glasses.

I switched to these after our Omicron surge started, the Greek government started recommending KN95s and FFP2s, and we started getting daily cases at the school where I work (which still has 4-8 cases per day, and close contacts on my son's bus every couple weeks...so that's fun). Thankfully my son is good about wearing the FFP2s religiously, because like me he has mild asthma.

Not sure if the Greek Government endorsement means something specific but...there you go.

It's probably a good time to mention that the number of people who died in this country yesterday is most likely on par with the number who died in Ukraine. And we're not being f*cking invaded!

Some scientists warn of ‘endemic delusion’ as restrictions lift.

Cases and hospitalizations may be dropping, but I definitely feel like it's too early to just start dropping restrictions altogether. We're also at a time where those of us who got boosters early are losing their effectiveness. Can't help but be a little stressed that this might just be a repeat of Summer 2021 as we head into spring break season.

2000 daily US deaths still...
It may feel like a trickle or easy to get bored off but that is over 700K death in a year.

Lifting restrictions means most of the populace will act like its over when it is very much not.

CptDomano wrote:

Some scientists warn of ‘endemic delusion’ as restrictions lift.

Cases and hospitalizations may be dropping, but I definitely feel like it's too early to just start dropping restrictions altogether. We're also at a time where those of us who got boosters early are losing their effectiveness. Can't help but be a little stressed that this might just be a repeat of Summer 2021 as we head into spring break season.

Catching up and just read the article. While I would love a perfect world with less than 100 deaths a day, that’s likely years away at this point. Ukraine is already wrecking our economy and at this point it seems the pluses of staying locked down don’t outweigh the negatives, especially since a lot of those dying chose to end up where they are.

It led to a 10% increase in the death rate in 2020, and a 2 year drop in life expectancy for newborns, the largest in 75 years... And it's self-inflicted because we don't have the will to take a shot and wear "face diapers". And we won't face the consequences when we fail to do the easy things and have to choose between a temporary shutdown and 8-12 weeks or more of flare-ups that stress the entire medical system in states and, often, regions.

All it takes is to care for your fellow human beings. Apparently, too many of us read Rand in our youths to consider that a valid goal. /s

jdzappa wrote:

Ukraine is already wrecking our economy and at this point it seems the pluses of staying locked down don’t outweigh the negatives, especially since a lot of those dying chose to end up where they are.

No where in the article was it suggesting that we put lockdown measures in place? It was just expressing concern about lifting masking mandates and cutting tracking and reporting cases is too soon while we're still seeing deaths per day in the 1000s on average. If we get another spike due to these measures being lifted and less effort being done on trying to get people vaccinated, then the shutdowns may just happen as a result of that.

CptDomano wrote:
jdzappa wrote:

Ukraine is already wrecking our economy and at this point it seems the pluses of staying locked down don’t outweigh the negatives, especially since a lot of those dying chose to end up where they are.

No where in the article was it suggesting that we put lockdown measures in place? It was just expressing concern about lifting masking mandates and cutting tracking and reporting cases is too soon while we're still seeing deaths per day in the 1000s on average. If we get another spike due to these measures being lifted and less effort being done on trying to get people vaccinated, then the shutdowns may just happen as a result of that.

That’s fair. I thought this was a push for going back in lockdown or similar measures. I’m so done with masks and feel they are of limited value against Omicron, but I agree we need to continue contract tracing.

But a big part of the problem is the anti vaxxers are done with it all and politicians are just recognizing that.

Sorry if I came across as being callous. I’m just getting skeptical that the measures in place are still helping. At this point might make more sense to focus on protecting the most vulnerable babies as Robear mentioned.

jdzappa wrote:

I’m so done with masks and feel they are of limited value against Omicron...

I'd be interested to know what source you have that masks are limited against Omicron. A quick search on the CDC website shows an article from a soon as February 2022 that a mask helps slow the spread of the virus.

jdzappa wrote:

At this point might make more sense to focus on protecting the most vulnerable babies as Robear mentioned.

One of the easiest ways to protect the most vulnerable that has constantly been said is to wear the mask so that you don't unintentionally spread the virus to those that are vulnerable.

Robear wrote:

and a 2 year drop in life expectancy for newborns, the largest in 75 years..

Where are you reading this? While the life expectancy has dropped because a lot of people are dying before the life expectancy, COVID isn't making our newborns have a lower life expectancy. In 77+ years, COVID won't be having any effect on the population (something else may, like global warming). Vox did an article last year on how this stat has been misinterpreted and what it really means. Covid-19 isn’t the reason that US life expectancy is stagnating

As a new father, things like SIDS are a much bigger concern to me then COVID for my child. Where I am concerned with COVID is my own mortality, and those that I know that are truly at risk (elderly, overweight, diabetics, etc...). I am more fearful that I would leave my child fatherless.

CptDomano wrote:

One of the easiest ways to protect the most vulnerable that has constantly been said is to wear the mask so that you don't unintentionally spread the virus to those that are vulnerable.

I'll never understand why covering 90% of your body in cloth is OK, expected even, but covering 91% of your body in cloth is onerous, intolerable, and even tyranny.

Im wearing a mask in closed places for a looooong time. Why not?

If you come to Japan in the foreseeable future, don’t expect to roam around maskless in public without getting the dirtiest looks from everyone. I expect I’ll need to educate any friends or family who visit.

New Zealand records highest daily COVID cases as US issues travel warning

New Zealand has recorded its highest daily coronavirus case numbers since the pandemic started as the Omicron variant drives community transmission, leading US authorities to warn Americans against travelling to the country.
Authorities reported 757 people were in hospital with the coronavirus, with 16 patients in ICU or high dependency care.
Only 3 per cent of New Zealanders aged over 12 had received no doses of a COVID vaccine…

Uh huh…

Kazar wrote:

Where are you reading this? While the life expectancy has dropped because a lot of people are dying before the life expectancy, COVID isn't making our newborns have a lower life expectancy. In 77+ years, COVID won't be having any effect on the population (something else may, like global warming). Vox did an article last year on how this stat has been misinterpreted and what it really means. Covid-19 isn’t the reason that US life expectancy is stagnating.

International Journal of Epidemiology, Vol55, issue 1, Feb 2022, pp. 63-74, "Quantifying impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic through life-expectancy losses: a population-level study of 29 countries".

Results

Life expectancy at birth declined from 2019 to 2020 in 27 out of 29 countries. Males in the USA and Lithuania experienced the largest losses in life expectancy at birth during 2020 (2.2 and 1.7 years, respectively), but reductions of more than an entire year were documented in 11 countries for males and 8 among females. Reductions were mostly attributable to increased mortality above age 60 years and to official COVID-19 deaths.

...

Life expectancy at birth is the most widely used metric of population health and longevity. It refers to the average number of years a synthetic cohort of newborns would live if they were to experience the death rates observed in a given period throughout their lifespan. This indicator is thus often referred to as ‘period life expectancy’, as it simulates and summarizes the implications of a mortality profile from a calendar year. Although the indicator does not describe the actual life course of a cohort7 and should not be interpreted as a projection or forecast of any individual’s lifespan,8,9 it provides a timely description of current mortality patterns. The key advantage of period life expectancy arises from the fact that it is age-standardized, making it the preferred indicator for comparisons across countries with populations of different sizes and age structures, and over time.9 Life expectancy can also be calculated as conditional on surviving to a given age, e.g. 60 years, where it refers to remaining life expectancy from age 60 years. The study of life expectancy in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic matters because it enables us to compare the cumulative impacts of the pandemic against past mortality shocks and recent trends across different countries using a standardized indicator that is routinely monitored to capture differences in mortality.

Bold mine.

What this means is that if we continue to treat COVID-19 as we did in 2020, in the US, we will have maintained this drop in life expectancy, even for infants, who have to deal with the new situation. And I don't see signs that we are going to do more than, say, cut the effects in half, at best.

Covid may make the willfully unvaccinated even dumber

Covid can shrink brain and damage its tissue, finds research

Worst effect on region linked to smell, while infected people typically scored lower on mental skills test

Our generation's leaded gasoline...

Robear wrote:

Bold mine.

What this means is that if we continue to treat COVID-19 as we did in 2020, in the US, we will have maintained this drop in life expectancy, even for infants, who have to deal with the new situation. And I don't see signs that we are going to do more than, say, cut the effects in half, at best.

Ok, so I get why you connected the dots from A to B. The bolded section is talking about a "synthetic cohort of newborns" which is basically saying if you were to create a batch of newborns and simulate their life and dying in 2020, they would be two years younger then they would have been if you did the same simulation in 2019.

It doesn't mean that actual newborns born today are expected to live 2 years less, as we can't predict the future. The Vox article is saying that even if the number stays down or gets lower, it won't be due to COVID as COVID will be long gone (as a deadly disease) in 75+ years.

The longer we fail to deal with it, the more the effect will linger, though. That's what I took from it. We still have tens of thousands of deaths from the flu; if we had somehow eradicated it, that would have raised the life expectancy at birth by a bit. It's a warning, as I see it. Get our act together or this stays added to our morbidity burden.

Mr GT Chris wrote:

New Zealand records highest daily COVID cases as US issues travel warning

New Zealand has recorded its highest daily coronavirus case numbers since the pandemic started as the Omicron variant drives community transmission, leading US authorities to warn Americans against travelling to the country.
Authorities reported 757 people were in hospital with the coronavirus, with 16 patients in ICU or high dependency care.
Only 3 per cent of New Zealanders aged over 12 had received no doses of a COVID vaccine…

Uh huh…

I think they’re trying to protect New Zeelanders from us.

There's a new Omnicron strain that's reportedly 20-30% more contagious than its predecessor. Expected to push up daily infections from their ~8,000 daily in my state to around ~ 30,000.

Big uptick in infections trending now. No masks except on public transport. What could go wrong.

This is why we can't have nice things open back up...

Mild Covid-19 Linked to Increased Inflammation in Cells Months Later, Study Finds

We really have no idea what the long term implications of COVID are going to be

Long term effects of COVID are one of those areas where I had hoped and still hope to be very wrong...