[News] Coronavirus

A place to discuss the now-global coronavirus outbreak.

Look we have one grandparent who is right leaning. He didn't get the vaccine immediately when the rest of both sides of our family did in March/April.

We told him if he wanted to see his grandkids again he had to get it. And he caved in May. And yes I would have held firm on that as long as it took, because my job as parent is to protect these kids, whatever the cost.

Same. My stepdad did finally get it. Boohoo his feelings were hurt because we forced him to get a miracle life saving vaccine and to do his part to end this nightmare.

Stele wrote:

Look we have one grandparent who is right leaning. He didn't get the vaccine immediately when the rest of both sides of our family did in March/April.

We told him if he wanted to see his grandkids again he had to get it. And he caved in May. And yes I would have held firm on that as long as it took, because my job as parent is to protect these kids, whatever the cost.

That's different. That's "cutting from your life" until that person gets the vaccine. That makes sense.

What doesn't make sense to me is cutting folks from your life if they've had covid and still don't get the vaccine. They're still protected, just maybe not as protected as folks getting boosters with regularity.

As an aside: My entire immediate family is right wing now, though everyone got vaccinated except my mother in law. She only got it once we all pressured her enough.

I dunno, i have basically written off my mom's side of the family as they all went heavy conspiracy and anti-vaxx post Trump. I don't need to reconcile and I don't need them in my life. We need to stop making excuses for sh*tty people just because we share dna.

Then this country is doomed.

Those people put themselves at far more risk of problems getting COVID-19 in the first place, than if they accepted the vaccine. (And of course much of that was before the vaccine, when the risks were centered on mask-wearing.) What astounds me is that when given the chance to add to that resistance by taking a very low risk vaccine, they freak out. They’d rather risk death to get immunity, than just take a shot. That attitude is what led them to reject masks, social distancing, tests, tracking, quarantines and so forth, which led to the problems we have now. This is a Trumpian plague, at this point, with that sort of risk-taking being nothing but political virtue signalling. (And if taking the vaccine is called virtue signalling, well, I don’t care, because it’s actually beneficial to others, where the reverse actively endangers them.)

There is no moral or religious excuse for not getting the vaccine and bringing us to a state where COVID is rare and unusual in the population, tracking and testing are ubiquitous during outbreaks, and there are enough hospital beds for those who need them as a result.

This is a perfect example of the BS of "both sides" arguments.
Dems could have made not getting the vaccine a purity test for political ammo at the cost of lives but they instead embraced it.

And while a lot of us shed little tears for those who have suffered or died from their myopic ignorance, most of us also just wish they would protect themselves. This is for somewhat selfish reasons but mostly for the safety of the whole and shows some level of care for those that tragically cannot get out of their own way.

garion333 wrote:

What doesn't make sense to me is cutting folks from your life if they've had covid and still don't get the vaccine. They're still protected, just maybe not as protected as folks getting boosters with regularity.

Because, as you pointed out, the Venn diagram of people still refusing to get vaccinated and holding either extreme anti-vax or crazy-coo-coo right wing beliefs (or both) is pretty much a circle.

It makes perfect sense to not want that in your life, especially after the last two years.

garion333 wrote:

He posted links to the studies.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...

This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s415...

The notable evolution of neutralizing breadth after infection with SARS-CoV-2 and the robust enhancement of serologic responses and B cell memory achieved with mRNA vaccination suggests that convalescent individuals who are vaccinated should enjoy high levels of protection against emerging variants without a need to modify existing vaccines. If memory responses evolve in a similar manner in naive individuals who receive vaccines, additional appropriately timed boosting with available vaccines should lead to protective immunity against circulating variants.

I'm more than happy to read these studies, and I did, but found his straight forward explanation in the video a bit more palatable.

Can we now have a discussion about how people who had Covid but don't feel the need to get a booster shouldn't automatically be shunned?

Yes, I understand the overlap between folks who haven't gotten the vaccine and those who are anti-vax is especially high at this point, but it was suggested to cut folks who had Covid but not a vaccine from our lives. I'm attempting to counter that suggestion by saying "yes, it's probably okay to see these people at Christmas because the time between their current (literally, here) infection and Christmas is not enough time for them to lose immunity (assuming their current infection doesn't kill them since they didn't get the vaccine)".

polypusher's in-laws are the people in question and cutting them out of their lives means potentially putting his marriage in jeopardy. Is it worth it? Is it worth adding conflict into your life with your inlaws because they are vaccine hesitant? Like, not disagreeing with them, but straight dropping them from your life? How does this impact grandchildren, if any? It seems like a huge negative to cut people out simply because they didn't get a vaccine. Huge, life-changing ramifications based on their stance on the Covid vaccine. And since they had Covid, they do have added protection built into their system, so why now cut them out? Don't cut them out. Visit them on Christmas. Remind yourself that relationships with others are worth having even when you disagree with them.

And then remind them that a booster would confer even more protection.

Not that they'll listen.

But at least you planted that seed.

Gonna be using a lot of general "you's", so bear with me.

It's more about how them still refusing to get the vaccine is a good indication that they won't take other precautions either, and it'll only be a matter of time before they get it again, even if Christmas is "safe." Giving in now is going to create the expectation that they can get you to give in later too. As for how it impacts the grandkids, that's a better question to ask the grandparents, since they're the ones refusing to do the trivially easy thing required to be able to see them.
They're the ones cutting themselves out of your life, not the other way around. There's a very easy way for them to continue to be a part of your life, they just won't do it. All you're doing is standing up for your family.

There is a wonderful local sandwich shop in the area run by an 85 year old Dutch woman. She is the only person working there and has been for decades. Some Karen recently posted that she was upset that the shop still required masks and social distancing. I responded "That woman is 85 years old. If someone brings her the covid that kills her, that person is going to earn a beating".

Regarding my in-laws. Yes, they've been careless this whole time. We're learning from the mother's sister that they've been going out unmasked while saying they're staying safe. The dad recently gave a speech at an indoor memorial with 70 people. The timing works out that he either got it there or spread it there. To my mind that's criminal negligence.

This is Texas by the way. Dallas and Tarrant (Fort Worth) counties are both at just 50% fully vaccinated. They were always going to get it acting this way, so to choose to just get Covid is idiotic at their age. The father, an obese diabetic, is apparently doing better. The mother, a cancer survivor, is doing worse.

Their choices may make our own choices about seeing them 'easier' when they get their very own Herman Cain award

garion333 wrote:

Then this country is doomed.

That’s what’s going to doom the country?? Lol

Whelp Florida has America’s lowest Covid infection rate now.

I’ll give you the tl;dr: Covid has a two month surge cycle that nobody really understands. We’re at the end of Florida’s, which killed far more people than it should have thanks to their politics.

TheGameguru wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Then this country is doomed.

That’s what’s going to doom the country?? Lol

To be fair, they almost certainly will be blaming us the entire time they're destroying the country.

Hasn’t Florida played games with COVID reporting over the last year? I’m suspicious that they are literally hiding or delaying data reporting.

Stengah wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Then this country is doomed.

That’s what’s going to doom the country?? Lol

To be fair, they almost certainly will be blaming us the entire time they're destroying the country.

It's happening already! The intolerant left's intolerance of intolerance!

Robear wrote:

Hasn’t Florida played games with COVID reporting over the last year? I’m suspicious that they are literally hiding or delaying data reporting.

That'd probably account for a lot of it, but I don't doubt that it simply infected everyone it could in this wave, and everyone else is either vaccinated & taking precautions or is still in their temporarily protected window from surviving being infected in the last wave or two.

The number of Floridians who have died of Covid has exceeded both the combat and non-combat deaths America suffered during the entire 20 years of conflict in Vietnam.

Well, none of these conservatives parents or grandparents would have protested against that war, so I doubt that will have any impact on their thinking...

TheGameguru wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Then this country is doomed.

That’s what’s going to doom the country?? Lol

Seriously. The list of things dooming this country is longer than my...

Well, it's long.

Mixolyde wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Then this country is doomed.

That’s what’s going to doom the country?? Lol

Seriously. The list of things doodling this country is longer than my...

Well, it's long.

Need to see your drawings on doom.

Stele wrote:
Mixolyde wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Then this country is doomed.

That’s what’s going to doom the country?? Lol

Seriously. The list of things doodling this country is longer than my...

Well, it's long.

Need to see your drawings on doom. ;)

F*cking autocorrect.

Hot Take: A large portion (not all) of vaccine refusal boils down to "the libs are trying to force me to do this, and on that basis alone I will not do it."

"A large portion?" Heck, I thought it was more in the "overwhelming majority" territory.

Also calling it a "hot take" feels like underselling the idea to me.

Re: upcoming holidays

I'm not losing sleep if folks decide they want to cut selfish assholes out of their lives. It's not really the safety/merits of gathering (tho that can play a part; I wouldn't invite that WSU football coach over). It's the insistence on refusing to be a team player. That's what makes a society.

We used to have a joke as teenagers when someone would get ultra self righteous about taking action on something and basically dying on the wrongest of hills. Keep in mind this was a deeply religious community. The joke would be someone saying they not only had a right to something but a duty to exercise that right to the fullest extent, regardless of the ridiculous consequences.

So, right to bear arms? Check. Not only do you have a right to carry your gun into the store, you have a duty to shoot the kid stealing a candy bar. That kind of thing.

This was always summed up in a Blackadder The Third's Prince George (Hugh Laurie) voice: "I have rights, sir! And dare I say I not only have a right to carry my .50 Desert Eagle into 7-11 to purchase the delicious purple Slur-pee, I have a DUTY to shoot children stealing candy!" [Loud gun noises]

I always hear this Prince George voice when I see anti vaxxers get on about their rights.

And then I imagine Blackadder in the corner rolling his eyes and mumbling, "Yes, well, your rights are going to have you breathing from a tube." [BBC laugh track]

Prederick wrote:

Hot Take: A large portion (not all) of vaccine refusal boils down to "the libs are trying to force me to do this, and on that basis alone I will not do it."

I think a part of it is more like "if I let them be right about this, they might be right about my racism".

And my temper tantrums...

Top_Shelf wrote:

And then I imagine Blackadder in the corner rolling his eyes and mumbling, "Yes, well, your rights are going to have you breathing from a tube." [BBC laugh track]

Maybe but my wife has had patients who request not to be intubated. They still, inexplicably, want to be a full code.

Its like covid is a respiratory problem we can bring you back to life but your just going to die again because you can't breathe.

Also, NO ONE seems to know what a full code actually is like. Hint: It's not a tv doctor gently compressing your chest and saying "Live! Damnit!", it is a horror show that will make you wish they had let you die.

So they are trying to make Deadpools. That makes so much more sense
(Lol, I typoed "more" as "morte". How appropriate. We must be getting close to Halloween.)

The next few weeks are gonna be real interesting in NYC, which appears to be the most serious flashpoint of "what happens when a civilian government loses control over services and law enforcement."

Firefighters lash out on eve of NYC’s vaccine deadline

Six New York City firefighters upset with an impending COVID-19 vaccine mandate for city workers were relieved of duty Friday and face suspension after driving a fire truck to a state Senator’s office and threatening his staff over the requirement, which the state lawmaker had nothing to do with.

The angry display came as the Big Apple braced for the possibility of closed firehouses, fewer police and ambulances and mounting trash come Monday as thousands of municipal workers remain unwilling to get the shots.

Police officers, firefighters, garbage collectors and most other city workers face a 5 p.m. Friday deadline to show proof they’ve gotten at least one dose of the COVID-19 vaccine.

Workers who don’t comply will be put on unpaid leave starting Monday. Nearly one-fifth of city employees covered by the impending mandate have yet to receive at least one vaccine dose as of Thursday.

Fire Commissioner Daniel Nigro swiftly condemned the incident, in which members of Ladder 113 drove a fire truck to State Senator Zellnor Myrie’s office and reportedly told his staff they’d have “blood on their hands” because of staffing shortages resulting from the mandate.

“This is a highly inappropriate act by on duty members of this Department who should only be concerned with responding to emergencies and helping New Yorkers and not harassing an elected official and his staff,” Nigro said.” The members in question have been immediately relieved of duty and will face disciplinary action.”

Hooooboy.

People who refuse to get vaccinated are now a big factor in the continued spread of the virus. Backers of mandates say New Yorkers have a right not to be infected by public servants unwilling to get the shots.

Of police personnel, 16% have not gotten at least one dose of a vaccine, while 29% of firefighters and EMS workers and 33% of sanitation workers have not yet gotten a shot, according to city data. City jail guards have another month to comply.

As of 8 p.m. Thursday, 33,400 city workers remained unvaccinated.

The fire department said it was prepared to close up to 20% of its fire companies and have 20% fewer ambulances in service while changing schedules, canceling vacations and turning to outside EMS providers to make up for expected staffing shortages.