[News] Coronavirus

A place to discuss the now-global coronavirus outbreak.

That whole room is vaxxed too.

EDIT: Sidenote, once again, I do just so enjoy going back to the beginning of this thread and seeing how 5,000,000,000% wrong almost everyone on Page 1 of this thread (including me) was. Sheesh.

EDIT v2: Although, turns out I did make a good prediction back in February 2020:

Prederick wrote:

I just hope you're all prepared for how monumentally stupid this is likely going to get. Even excluding this administration's response, it's going to get so dumb ya'll.

My first post wasn’t until page 2 but I stand by it. :p

Mr GT Chris wrote:

I don’t get the extreme opinions either way. I’m cautiously following the news, ready to take precautions if need be. No need to freak out but not something I’m prepared to ignore. I do find the rate of spread aboard the cruise ship in Yokohama alarming. I wanted to try to convince my parents to skip the cruise they are currently on but I knew they would go ahead regardless.

As someone who works in kindergartens and day care I also follow reports on other contagious diseases such as flu, norovirus etc. and try to protect myself best as I can.

I'm gonna listen closely to Coldstream when the next pandemic looms.

Pregnant and Unvaccinated: Delta’s Deadly Toll

Likewise, a study of about 870,000 women found that, compared with those who did not give birth with COVID-19, those who did so had a nearly one-and-a-half-fold increase in preterm births, a sixfold increase in ICU admissions, a 14-fold increase in mechanical ventilation and a 15-fold increase in death.

Yeah it's bad. We went through pregnancy in 2020 and it was terrifying. But my wife didn't hesitate to get vaccine in 2021 even though she was still nursing.

It's very sad these women aren't listening to doctors and in many cases never meeting their children. Or even worse if their doctors aren't telling them to get vaccinated.

From Page 4, end of Feb, 2020:

gewy wrote:

My wife recently installed the Nextdoor app on her phone, which as near as I can tell is a private messageboard for people who can verify they live in a particular neighborhood/area. Real names are required- so it's not really anonymous.

She’s been reading a lot of comments on coronavirus from people who live nearby, and these include (paraphrasing):

"It's no more dangerous than the flu. God will take you when it's your time and nothing you can do will change that. I've been smoking for 40 years and don't have any problems with my lungs. The media just wants you to worry."

"I believe this is a biological weapon developed by the government. It's ridiculous that they are having to develop a vaccine for something that man created in the first place."

"The mainstream media is blowing this way out of proportion to influence the election against our duly elected President Trump."

"It's disgusting how the Democrats actually want more people to die. I wouldn't be surprised if the virus was intentionally spread in order to stop President Trump from getting reelected."

"China is a dirty country and we shouldn't be surprised this is happening. This is exactly why we shouldn't have open borders."

"I believe in natural remedies. Try colloidal silver and vitamin C."

"Yes, natural remedies are the way to go." (proceeds to provide extensive list of supposed natural remedies)

At least there was this- "I think you people on here need to reexamine your sources of information."

Top_Shelf wrote:

From Page 4, end of Feb, 2020:

gewy wrote:

My wife recently installed the Nextdoor app on her phone, which as near as I can tell is a private messageboard for people who can verify they live in a particular neighborhood/area. Real names are required- so it's not really anonymous.

She’s been reading a lot of comments on coronavirus from people who live nearby, and these include (paraphrasing):

"It's no more dangerous than the flu. God will take you when it's your time and nothing you can do will change that. I've been smoking for 40 years and don't have any problems with my lungs. The media just wants you to worry."

"I believe this is a biological weapon developed by the government. It's ridiculous that they are having to develop a vaccine for something that man created in the first place."

"The mainstream media is blowing this way out of proportion to influence the election against our duly elected President Trump."

"It's disgusting how the Democrats actually want more people to die. I wouldn't be surprised if the virus was intentionally spread in order to stop President Trump from getting reelected."

"China is a dirty country and we shouldn't be surprised this is happening. This is exactly why we shouldn't have open borders."

"I believe in natural remedies. Try colloidal silver and vitamin C."

"Yes, natural remedies are the way to go." (proceeds to provide extensive list of supposed natural remedies)

At least there was this- "I think you people on here need to reexamine your sources of information."

You could have her post links to /r/HermanCainAward. You'll find those exact sentiments (and in many cases those exact words) parroted there by all the nominees & award winners.

That list is growing extremely long. The winners of the Herman Cain Award I mean.

I always love the “media is spreading fear” when these morons watch Fox News and worse 24x7 with basically tells them to be very afraid of a whole lot of things.

Battling Delta, New Zealand Abandons Its Zero-Covid Ambitions

“It’s turned out that elimination is not going to work at Level 3,” he said. “That’s not that surprising, just because Delta is so transmissible. The question now is: Will Level 3 be enough to contain it with less than 20, 30, 40, 50 cases a day for a while?”

A more permissive approach, Dr. Welch said, could allow the number of cases to rise much higher, letting the outbreak spiral out of control.

To prevent such spread of the virus, epidemiologists said people in Auckland would most likely still face as many as two months in lockdown. That will leave them in a limbo much like those experienced in Australian cities like Sydney and Melbourne, where leaders have said they are abandoning a zero-Covid approach but have left heavy restrictions in place.

Singapore, too, has shifted to what it calls living with the virus, using metrics like hospitalizations and deaths instead of caseloads to guide its reopening now that it has vaccinated much of its population. The change in strategy by Singapore and other countries in the region has left China as perhaps the last major country to pursue a Covid-zero approach.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

“It’s turned out that elimination is not going to work at Level 3,” he said. “That’s not that surprising, just because Delta is so transmissible. The question now is: Will Level 3 be enough to contain it with less than 20, 30, 40, 50 cases a day for a while?”

Meanwhile we in America are crowing about how our average daily cases are down to low six figures.

Federal civil servants who refuse COVID-19 vaccine will be put on unpaid leave

Good. The door can hit them in their dumb arse on their way out.

What I find so ironic, and it would be humorous if not so sad - is the allusion that it is the Fox News watchers that are causing things to spiral. Two facts ignored outright (related to spouting "media - fear" and "Herman Cain" tripe comments...)

A) Deaths under Biden (2021) now outnumber those under Trump (2020) - remember, no ifs/ands/buts -Biden campaigned and said he WOULD fix this quickly, and even with several vaccines developed under the Trump admin (all three effectively), and that head start - he has failed to get it all under control (the buck stops there gents...)

B) The highest NON-vaccination groups remain core democratic constituencies - not the Fox News demographic by any real data I can find.

From KFF.org - "The CDC reports demographic characteristics, including race/ethnicity, of people receiving COVID-19 vaccinations at the national level. As of September 21, 2021, CDC reported that race/ethnicity was known for 59% of people who had received at least one dose of the vaccine. Among this group, nearly two thirds were White (60%), 10% were Black, 17% were Hispanic, 6% were Asian, 1% were American Indian or Alaska Native, and <1% were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, while 5% reported multiple or other race."

I understand in terms of raw numbers, more needs to be considered - but state data shows a strong correlation in smaller shares of vaccinations compared to demographic shares of deaths and hospitalizations. Fortunately - the data on minorities getting vaccinated is getting much better (that is very good) - but do you all ever get off the high horse and actually consider the real data and reality, or just stick to the same old tripes about watching FoxNews? Just curious...

"Interesting" approach, tying it ethnicity and "traditional Democratic groups", when, in fact, statistics show that about 90% of people who register as Democrats are vaccinated, and 58% of Republicans (based on numbers from earlier this week). Vaccination has become a performative act for some, and the line has nothing to do with ethnicity, and everything to do with someone's political leanings apparently driving their desire to live or not.

The singly-greatest marker for whether or not someone is vaccinated is what political party they are affiliated with, plain and simple.

In relation to the comment "The singly-greatest marker for whether or not someone is vaccinated is what political party they are affiliated with, plain and simple." - Do you have any specific CDC data that backs this up, or where are you getting those numbers that relate them to party affiliation as the main pre-cursor?

In pulling from the Kff.org article (https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi... ) showing consideration of ethnicity.

"Black people have received smaller shares of vaccinations compared to their shares of cases, deaths, and the total population in more than half of states reporting data. In the remaining reporting states, the share of vaccinations they have received is similar to their shares of cases, deaths, and the total population. For example, in Florida, Black people have received 9% of vaccinations, while they make up 15% of cases, 17% of deaths, and 15% of the total population.

Reflecting disproportionate levels of infection, Hispanic people have received smaller shares of vaccinations compared to their shares of cases in most reporting states. Their share of vaccinations is similar or higher than their shares of deaths in most reporting states. However, in some states it remains lower. For example, in California, 31% of vaccinations have gone to Hispanic people, while they account for 61% of cases, 47% of deaths, and 40% of the total population in the state.

These current patterns reflect growing shares of vaccinations going to Hispanic and Black people over time. Between March 1 and September 20, the share of vaccinations going to Hispanic people increased in all states reporting data for both periods and increased for Black people in most reporting states. In a few cases, these increases were large. ...

In nearly all reporting states, the share of vaccinations among Asian people was similar to or higher than their shares of cases, deaths, and total population. For example, in Hawaii, 53% of vaccinations have been received by Asian people, which is higher than their share of the total population (40%) and their shares of cases and deaths (both at 44%).

White people received a higher share of vaccinations compared to their share of cases in most states reporting data. ..."

Brookings Institute. References both KFF and Gallup polls.

NBC News.

Could go on, but this is easy to look up. There's a pretty clear correlation between vaccination rates and how a state voted, and it's even starker down to the county level; here in the Twin Cities, vaccination rates are ~80%. Outstate in far more heavily red areas, they're far lower. This is consistent, and is easy to look up based on a number of sources.

Thank you for the links. Couple of things. Quoting NBC, is akin to Fox is akin to MSNBC is akin to CNN. In the research world, they all have little to no real credibility. So tossing that one aside as without merit, let us look at the KFF article that looks at CDC data. Good article and citations.

The key demographic that splits from the original citation you make of 90% is "As of September 13, 2021, 52.8% of people in counties that voted for Biden were fully vaccinated compared to 39.9% of Trump counties, a 12.9 percentage point difference (Figure 1). While the rate of vaccination coverage has slowed in both county groups, the gap has widened over time (Figure 2)."

Now, that is clearly a gap that supports your statement, but not clearly so large a gap that it is a sole and single precursor for the issues we continue to see. So I remain confused as to how you can ignore clear demographic data in the simple mixture that does not make sense.

Let me dissect - only 66.1% of voting age population voted in 2020 - so then saying 90% of those that voted for Biden (90% of 80 million) still ignores a HUGE swath of the populace that is covered by demographic data. For instance, if the black population remains one of the lower vaccinated populations, how does that specifically match up to a 90% number? (i.e, how are we covering the 13.4% /or/ 46.8 million of the US population that as a huge Democratic constituency is not buying into the vaccine?)

(BTW...this 90% statistic is why the news agencies fall out of the research perspective - statistics are easy to work to support the article perspective...very easy...)

IMAGE(https://media.tenor.com/images/94181ed23c37b46091fd0c28840bde65/tenor.gif)

Why would you even look at a weird statistic like comparing percentage of vaccinated vs. percentage in the population? That is going to be so swayed by socioeconomic factors, like being able to take time off work without losing your job, like having Healthcare for longer side-effects, like having access and transportation to a vaccine site, as to be almost meaningless at best and misleading at worst.

Oh.

Pigpen wrote:

What I find so ironic, and it would be humorous if not so sad - is the allusion that it is the Fox News watchers that are causing things to spiral. Two facts you all ignore outright (for those spouting "media - fear" and "Herman Cain" tripe comments...)

A) Deaths under Biden (2021) now outnumber those under Trump (2020) - remember, no ifs/ands/buts -Biden campaigned and said he WOULD fix this quickly, and even with several vaccines developed under the Trump admin (all three effectively), and that head start - he has failed to get it all under control (the buck stops there gents...)

B) The highest NON-vaccination groups remain core democratic constituencies - not the Fox News demographic by any real data I can find.

From KFF.org - "The CDC reports demographic characteristics, including race/ethnicity, of people receiving COVID-19 vaccinations at the national level. As of September 21, 2021, CDC reported that race/ethnicity was known for 59% of people who had received at least one dose of the vaccine. Among this group, nearly two thirds were White (60%), 10% were Black, 17% were Hispanic, 6% were Asian, 1% were American Indian or Alaska Native, and <1% were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, while 5% reported multiple or other race."

I understand in terms of raw numbers, more needs to be considered - but state data shows a strong correlation in smaller shares of vaccinations compared to demographic shares of deaths and hospitalizations. Fortunately - the data on minorities getting vaccinated is getting much better (that is very good) - but do you all ever get off the high horse and actually consider the real data and reality, or just stick to the same old tripes about watching FoxNews? Just curious...

A) According to the Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center there have been a total of 703,300 COVID deaths in the US from the beginning of this mess through October 4th, 2021. On January 20th, 2021--the day Biden took office--the US COVID death toll was 413,700.

So that means 413,700 Americans died on Trump's watch and 289,600 have died on Biden's.

So you're flat out wrong about your first point.

B) You should have looked harder on KFF.org because they had this handy graph that shows it is indeed the Fox News demographic that has the lowest vaccination rate. By far.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/Xscw4fD.png)

They are also the largest group of people who stubbornly say they'll never get vaccinated.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/OegZwWt.png)

Even a detailed breakdown of demographics shows that the true plague rats of America now are Republicans and the groups that overwhelmingly vote Republican, like evangelical Christians and hicks. Everyone else has figured out COVID is serious and will kill you.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/iFPmwg9.png)

KFF.org also found that:

Kaiser Family Foundation wrote:

Two-thirds of adults who have not gotten a COVID-19 vaccine are under age 50, six in ten identify as Republicans or lean Republican, almost half have a high school education or less, and over a third have household incomes under $40,000. By contrast, adults who have gotten at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine are somewhat older, more educated, have higher incomes, and are more likely to identify as Democrats or lean Democrat.

They also have tracked Red/Blue Divide that you think is really a Blue/Red Divide for some odd reason and found that the vaccination rate in counties that voted for Trump have lagged the vaccination rate of counties that voted for Biden pretty much since vaccines were widely available.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/iyADMzb.png)

Not only that, but the gap between the vaccination rate of blue counties and red counties has only grown larger over time.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/7aKTWZi.png)

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/asQjf3H.png)

The low vaccination rate among Trump voters is why the Delta variant ripped through them and killed so many.

It wasn't because Biden f*cked up. He got millions and millions of doses in distributed out to tens of thousands of locations so anyone who wanted a vaccine could easily get one. And most Americans did so.

The ones that didn't--and still haven't--are Republicans.

Luckily it looks like the Delta variant is starting to burn itself out because it's infected most of the unvaccinated idiots (again, the Fox News demographic), it can't take root among the vaccinated, and the numbers are starting to come down.

And even though those deaths happened on Biden's watch, we all know that Trump and Fox News (and all of conservative media) are responsible for those deaths because they have been the ones who have consistently downplayed the severity of COVID, pretended that it was a fake crisis cooked up to make Trump look bad, and continually cast doubt over and stoked fear about the vaccines (even as those doing so were vaccinated).

The things you claimed were "facts" were easily disproved. One through simple math and the other through a website you clearly visited and sourced a quote from and yet somehow ignored the multitude of articles, graphs, charts, and data that clearly contradicted your second "fact."

OG_slinger wrote:

IMAGE(https://c.tenor.com/WJIEOHsnJmkAAAAC/obama-mic-drop.gif)

OG - You use your pictures without the focus of the narrative and details and context. I find it so humorous that the likes pour in from folks that likely see the pictures but don't understand the numbers. Remember, I did read both Kff articles, and even cited them to ensure a level playing field of data. Same with CDC. The point being there is the complexity to the data that far passes the simple narrative you all push.

A) you clearly ignore, at parity of numbers or even at 290K with 3 months left in the year, Biden has failed to control the epidemic even given the three serums the previous admin placed in his lap. Simple fact. (I should have sourced the numbers above as not digging for the link on parity of numbers within the CDC's 703K deaths - and I should have clarified 2020 vs 2021 numbers, of which Biden did not have those 20 days frontloaded). But Biden can do no wrong...eh?

B) Both Statista and CDC show much more complex demographic numbers with 86K and 67K being from Hispanic and Black demographics that are larger than their population percentage. Your percentage charts tend to normalize the numbers without the actual data behind it (those numbers are from CDC's site https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra... )

C) No where do I disagree with the narrative that conservatives are much less in the lemming category of 'do as the government says'. Whereas your freedom is largely based on that same basis - in some cases, and in this case, I concur - get the shot - and I preach the same to my GOP comrades. My point remains the echo chamber (see mic drop picture above based on simply attaching charts with little background data) in the board. Saying the party affiliation is THE single predictor key category is just plain wrong, if not factually biased and ignorant.

Again, you are talking multiple complex numbers (that seem to push from your 'GOP is bad' sophomoric narratives). Many folks don't identify with the traditional party (Libertarians, for instance), so voting data is single layered. Taking the percentages with no context (80 million, 153 million or 350+ million) shows a scientific lack of understanding that, like with climate change and most science based issues, demonstrates a lack of understanding of the systemic complexity of issues from your side of the aisle.

But hey, you posted a lot of pretty pictures and charts, so that normally wins the day with the Democratic side of the aisle...Cheers to that...

For someone who keeps bringing up “the narrative”, you only seem to care about the narrative. Who’s to blame and why. Nowhere do you mention that vaccine hesitancy is on a running continuum with other refusal to take steps to mitigate the spread of Covid. Instead you frame it as a virtue.

Pigpen wrote:

C) No where do I disagree with the narrative that conservatives are much less in the lemming category of 'do as the government says'. Whereas your freedom is largely based on that same basis

I mean, come the f*ck on. “Much less in the lemming category”. So it’s a virtue to act like a child and not do what’s necessary to protect other members of society from a novel disease? It’s a virtue to attack doctors and flagrantly refuse to act like a responsible adult in the face of the greatest crisis in our lifetimes? It’s a virtue to refuse for OVER 18 MONTHS to wear a mask and get vaccinated once that becomes available? It’s a virtue to spread misinformation?

All you have is narrative and let me tell you that narrative is not on your side.

Someone check the news, I think a sea lion escaped.

Mix - I also read they discovered a new variance/species of Killer Whales off the coast of California - 150 or so in that pod!

DSGamer - I frame it in recognition that the same independent spirit that made the US a world power and a key factor such as in WWII was that spirit - and in this case, that independent spirit works against the narrative of 'do as I say'. Not saying that is right, but it is part of the American culture. This is based on garbled messages of clarity from Fauci and others instead of saying 'this is what we believe is best' vs 'this is scientific fact' on such fast-moving variants. It leads to distrust. For instance, I read an article tying some of demographic hesitancy to past government efforts such as the Tuskegee Syphilis study.

I have no narrative but to challenge simple perspectives that are found here - I simply asked questions on demographic data and counters. I can return to you - is it a virtue to simply do as told without a basis of fact of clear data-driven decisions. (Booster shots, BLM, California Forest Management Policies, immediate change to green energy, continuous unemployment benefits, Afghan policy disaster - and the list goes on)?

In the concept of misinformation - what are your strong research credentials that help you to determine exactly what IS and IS NOT factual?

Booster shots, BLM, California Forest Management Policies, immediate change to green energy, continuous unemployment benefits, Afghan policy disaster - and the list goes on

It’s like a modern, conservative version of “We Didn’t Start the Fire”. What do any of these have to do with each other?

In the concept of misinformation - what are your strong research credentials that help you to determine exactly what IS and IS NOT factual?

In the fog of war of a pandemic a lot is going to go wrong on the information front. Getting things wrong from time to time, or onboarding new information is not the same thing as actively and intentionally spreading misinformation.

Like most people I do my best to synthesize as much information as possible as a layman, but mostly I try not to spread lies when the stakes are so high.

Yes the lemming category of folks that coined the #resist hashtag in reference to the government five years ago.

You’re lying, Pigpen, and OG proved it.

The ban will be worth it:

[removed] The death and suffering of a million+ US residents and the emotional & economic suffering of those of us who have survived them rest on the shoulders of you and the people like you.

There was a time when I could respectfully engage in political thought-exercise volleys with you and those like you. But now? Our communities would be safer and happier without your ilk assaulting us verbally and in some cases physically just for trying to keep everyone safe and healthy, even bin-juice-slurping assholes like you.

Go watch your closest loved one suffer for two months in an ICU of COVID, then you can come back and 'just ask questions' and 'challenge simple perspectives', [removed].

~mod~
No. Discuss the topic, not the poster.
mudbunny