[News] Coronavirus

A place to discuss the now-global coronavirus outbreak.

Bekkilyn, that's literally news to me. I'm sorry. I hope that you can understand that without that perspective, my viewpoint was very different.

Edit - I'll also note that TikTok leans conservative, and so, yeah, there's going to be more misogyny there. As the author noted, don't let that nullify what it means to minorities who use it, because their grievances are just as real.

My understanding is that "douchebag" is the word most consistently used to describe an entitled white dude who can't get over himself.

Can I suggest "Chad" as the male version of "Karen?"

SallyNasty wrote:

Can I suggest "Chad" as the male version of "Karen?"

You'd be the second person to suggest that.

And as I said to the first person, "Chad" already has a pop-culture definition thanks to the incels, and it already has a feminine counterpart, "Stacy"

Jonman wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:

Can I suggest "Chad" as the male version of "Karen?"

You'd be the second person to suggest that.

And as I said to the first person, "Chad" already has a pop-culture definition thanks to the incels, and it already has a feminine counterpart, "Stacy"

Whatever the name, the male counter is the white male with sunglasses yelling at clouds in the driver seat of his vehicle.

Jonman wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:

Can I suggest "Chad" as the male version of "Karen?"

You'd be the second person to suggest that.

And as I said to the first person, "Chad" already has a pop-culture definition thanks to the incels, and it already has a feminine counterpart, "Stacy"

Stop being such a Chad, Chad.

But seriously, Tangle is right. This is worthy of discussion but this probably isn't the thread for it.

I was kinda hoping for Bubba...
Unfortunately coming up with a male counterpart seems like two wrongs. It doesn't take away from the fact that Karen is being more broadly used and is trending towards the sentiment that women are not allowed to have opinions or objections, strong or otherwise. I think it broaches the same dismissive territory as "hysterical".

Edit:gah, I took the tangent bait. So, Corona virus, Newsom is closing bars in CA because people can't patronize them responsibly

I mentioned it to some of my Gen Z friends at the dog park, and one of them said "Kyle" is the male version of "Karen." But he also says that he even calls his male friends "Karen" when they're acting like entitled jerks. It appears to be a generational usage thing.

What does this have to do with Coronavirus? Nothing, except to point out that the younger folks I hang out with at the dog park are all very conscientious about social distancing, but there isn't much mask wearing, because we're all outdoors and not anywhere near each other.

In my experience, white men acting like entitled douchebags get called Karen just as quickly as women do. The only time Ken (sorry BadKen, but it is the unofficial male version of Karen, not Kyle or Chad, which already have their own meme personalities) enters the picture is when you have a male and female jerk and need to differentiate the two.

Stengah wrote:

In my experience, white men acting like entitled douchebags get called Karen just as quickly as women do. The only time Ken (sorry BadKen, but it is the unofficial male version of Karen, not Kyle or Chad, which already have their own meme personalities) enters the picture is when you have a male and female jerk and need to differentiate the two.

Well, maybe, but I couldn't find a KYM entry for "Ken" or "Such a Ken," and I trust my twentysomething slacker friends to steer me right.

I'm still sticking with "entitled jackass."

And um... somethingsomething coronavirus.

IMAGE(https://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/12396778-3x2-xlarge.jpg?v=2)
Anders Tegnell, the man behind Sweden's contentious coronavirus plan, has a legion of fans — and critics

As the architect of Sweden's controversial COVID-19 strategy, Anders Tegnell is a scientist with security.

Sweden's chief epidemiologist routinely walks the short distance through Stockholm's streets from his office to the Health Ministry Press Centre, flanked by two no-nonsense men with earpieces.

He's become a deeply polarising figure in the global debate on how best to combat coronavirus.

Under his guidance, Sweden was the only EU country not to impose tough, extensive, mandatory lockdowns. As the country's death toll rises, Tegnell faces a growing chorus of international condemnation and recently, a few death threats.

But, this being Sweden, a proudly egalitarian society, he's still on the street and accessible to foe and friend alike. "Good work, gang!" yells a supporter as she whizzes past Team Tegnell on her bicycle.

Anders Tegnell is not bowing to pressure. He still believes tough, short-term lockdowns are not the way to beat COVID-19, and that his strategy of keeping society largely open and the economy running will be proven right in the long term.

Time will be the judge...

MathGoddess wrote:

I’m reading Barry’s book on the 1918 pandemic, and if Covid mutates and there’s a second wave, we are so dead.

Well, to be positive, it could mutate to be less deadly.

Robear wrote:

Edit - I'll also note that TikTok leans conservative, and so, yeah, there's going to be more misogyny there. As the author noted, don't let that nullify what it means to minorities who use it, because their grievances are just as real.

Reddit is definitely left leaning, and despite their recent about face on allowing ultra conservative hate groups to use their platform (r/the_donald has finally been banned) there is a general undercurrent of misogyny and anti-feminism that runs across almost all the main popular subreddits. There is something in current young male culture that’s increasingly toxic there, as someone with a young daughter I find it quite disturbing (I’d find it disturbing anyway but it’s just more apparent to me now)

This isn’t coronavirus though, it’s politics.

This is an example of the behavior that is called out by the Karen meme.

The way I've been seeing Karen used is describing women being vicious to poorly paid people, typically in retail. The stereotype is middle-aged, heavyset, and with a short hairdo; it's a specific one, but I can't remember what it's called. In stories I read about guys being assholes, they don't get Karened, it seems to be a specifically gendered term with no real male equivalent.

The lesson I'd taken from it is not to be mean to retail workers, as they don't usually set the rules and they've got sh*tty jobs. It hadn't even occurred to me that it was sexist, but given my anecdotal experience, plus the comments here, and I'd say it probably is. It's a stronger form of 'don't be a bitch', where women are the only ones who can be bitches.

edit: wow, this was a much longer discussion than I'd realized. (I answered on the last page.) I'll try to stick to coronavirus now, sorry.

Victoria's premier announces lock-down orders for specific Melbourne suburbs where the number of cases has been greatest.

The key moments from Daniel Andrews' lockdown announcement for Melbourne coronavirus hotspots

Premier Daniel Andrews has announced that Victorians living in coronavirus hotspots will have to spend at least a month under new stay-at-home orders from Thursday.

"If we do not do this now then I won't be locking down 10 post codes, I will be locking down all post codes," he said.

As well, Mr Andrews wants all international flights diverted away from Melbourne for two weeks, and says a former judge will investigate breaches in relation to hotel quarantine.

Many states have gone days or even weeks since they last reported a case of COVID-19, but that's not the case in Victoria.

Today, a further 64 cases were confirmed. That takes the total number of cases reported since a testing blitz began last Thursday to 233.

"That is an unacceptably high number and one that poses a real threat to all of us, not just in those hotspot suburbs," Mr Andrews said.

Mr Andrews said the Melbourne suburbs with the highest numbers of new cases were Broadmeadows, Fawkner and Albanvale.

"Of most concern is the number of community transmission cases in those suburbs and other suburbs approximate to them," he said.

A total of 36 suburbs will be affected by the new lockdown.

For people in those suburbs, there will only be four reasons you can leave your house.
They are:

For work or school
For care or care giving
For daily exercise
For getting food and other essentials
Even then, Mr Andrews said you should only leave your house "if you really have to".

"It is not an opportunity to go shoe shopping, it is not an opportunity to be taking daily exercise for the whole day and particularly not outside the suburbs I am about to list," he said.

Mr Andrews said officers would be actively enforcing the stay-at-home orders and people outside their homes faced the possibility of on-the-spot fines unless they had a valid reason.

He said there would also be police checks on roads, with vehicles stopped randomly and drivers asked to explain their movements.

"If people make a judgement that they can ignore the rules and there is a low chance of getting caught, that would be a very unwise judgement to make," the Premier said.

The second wave in Victoria is turning into a pretty big hole in Australia's success story. Let's see if they can get a handle on it.

I think it's important to note that this isn't second wave stuff yet, this is just a (relatively) small first wave outbreak that we've been lucky enough to avoid this far. From what I've been reading, watching and hearing the second wave isn't predicted to hit properly until August/September when most major domestic movement restrictions have been relaxed and community transmission vectors are back to where they where six months prior. I've got quite a few public health workers in my extended family and peer group and there is a pervasive fear that September is going to be our real acid test as a country.

Why Coronavirus Cases Are Spiking Around the World

Most examples of people failing to follow social distancing measures are not evidence of individual selfishness, he said, but rather of the hardships that many face and the failure of public officials to offer clear guidance or provide for their needs.

“Despite media campaigns to vilify some people as selfish and thoughtless ‘covidiots,’ the evidence on reasons for non‐adherence shows that much of it was practical rather than psychological,” Drury and his colleagues wrote in a recent paper in the British Journal of Social Psychology. “Many people had to cram into Tube trains to go to work because they needed money to survive and government support schemes were insufficient. People were told they could go out to exercise, but those in urban areas had limited public space. And some employers failed to provide the support for social distancing and hygiene. Those with less income and wealth also live in more crowded homes.”

This seems to be saying it is more the fault of how society is that is to blame rather than individual bad choices. I mean it is really getting at the fact that society is built around certain amounts of social interaction that is the problem.

If we assume that is true then only a wholesale change in how our world works would help and boy does that seem insurmountable!

DC Malleus wrote:

I think it's important to note that this isn't second wave stuff yet, this is just a (relatively) small first wave outbreak that we've been lucky enough to avoid this far. From what I've been reading, watching and hearing the second wave isn't predicted to hit properly until August/September when most major domestic movement restrictions have been relaxed and community transmission vectors are back to where they where six months prior. I've got quite a few public health workers in my extended family and peer group and there is a pervasive fear that September is going to be our real acid test as a country.

I guess the definition changes depending on the location and the source. For example, media is using the term "second wave" to refer to the uptick in cases in Tokyo right now. That definition seems to a significant increase in daily cases following a loosening of restrictions.

Findings like this are why I'm pretty convinced being outside makes transmission far less likely.
So bbqs and stuff are lower risk than previously thought.

protesters have also been pretty rigorous about mask use, and re-openers... are not.

thrawn82 wrote:

protesters have also been pretty rigorous about mask us, and re-openers... are not.

This.

My friends that were at the protests were bathing in hand sanitizer the whole time they were on the protest lines.

No, I don't think *gatherings*, where people spend hours in close contact, are much less dangerous than being inside together. The safest outside environments involve, for example, walking around and just passing people, not stopping to talk, that sort of thing. When you have 15 people at a BBQ in close proximity, being outside may lower the risk a bit, but not all that much. Not unless you've got a steady 15mph wind or something... That might help...

Edit - I'm assuming people are not masked, in this scenario. Masked, like in the demonstrations I've seen, probably not that big a danger.

It probably also shows that any significant percentage of masks being worn can make a big difference.
The footage I've seen of the big protests looks to have 40-50% of the people wearing masks.

Compare this with bars, concerts and rallies with 0% masks and the immediacy of the infections.
Beaches seem to be hit or miss with crowding that is either continuous or clumped, and no mask wearing.

How much more evidence do we need that not being in closed circulation environments, social distancing, not lingering, and wearing masks can halt this pandemic?

Hong Kong has had a very minimal impact from COVID, even though they're adjacent to China, and clearly have a lot of travel to and from China. They wear masks at a near 100% rate, and have ~1200 cases and 7 deaths.

And people in the U.S. still refuse to wear masks. Morons.

It's also got nearly the same population as NYC, which is at 24,835 deaths and counting...

And is it Hong Kong or Singapore (or both) that rival or exceed NYC's population density? I think it is both...

fangblackbone wrote:

It probably also shows that any significant percentage of masks being worn can make a big difference.
The footage I've seen of the big protests looks to have 40-50% of the people wearing masks.

Compare this with bars, concerts and rallies with 0% masks and the immediacy of the infections.
Beaches seem to be hit or miss with crowding that is either continuous or clumped, and no mask wearing.

How much more evidence do we need that not being in closed circulation environments, social distancing, not lingering, and wearing masks can halt this pandemic?

Agreed that adding masks is an additional layer of risk reduction. Also throwing in increased hand washing.
However, we also did not see the expected rise in cases from the reopen protests.

I will admit that I have had small outdoor gatherings lately and they've all involved children playing and the adults being generally distanced.
If I go to a store, I use a mask 100% even if I am the only one in the store (employee or customer) with one.
We do takeout or food trucks, but no actual restaurant use.
I do have the kids returning to the outdoor taekwondo classes, but not indoors. We decided to not return to gymnastics since that is only indoors, but they seemed to have a decent health and safety plan.
I will make use of school programs later this summer and fall.

I assume it is part luck that my family and I have not contracted it yet, but given what we have seen from March (really earlier, but at least from the US perspective) through now is that outdoor is lower risk than inside and indoor mask usage with distancing covers that side. Now if Minnesota does start rising again, we will probably pull back more like we did in the spring. But for now this seems to be a reasonable balance.

Kindergarten finally opens up again for our 3yo tomorrow, but only in fixed groups with 5 kids for the rest of the year (August 10th). Hopefully at least one of his favorite kids is in his group.

As for my wife's perspective.... "Hallelujah!"

Jonman wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

protesters have also been pretty rigorous about mask us, and re-openers... are not.

This.

My friends that were at the protests were bathing in hand sanitizer the whole time they were on the protest lines.

Or...
Next up on Fox News: Pepper spray and tear gas work on the virus.

AUs_TBirD wrote:
Jonman wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

protesters have also been pretty rigorous about mask us, and re-openers... are not.

This.

My friends that were at the protests were bathing in hand sanitizer the whole time they were on the protest lines.

Or...
Next up on Fox News: Pepper spray and tear gas work on the virus.

We've discovered the secret to the Hong Kong miracle!