NFL 2019: Week 13

garion333 wrote:

Of course it's routine, but routine for a team that doesn't have Myles Garrett anymore. Just bad pr after getting good pr from his tragedy.

Oh I agree. Like I said last page, the screw-up isn't wanting to use his roster spot, it's declining to cook up a reason to stash him on IR and let him continue to get paid.

Either that, or, if they didn't want to get cute with skirting the NFL's IR rules (even though everybody does), at least agreeing to pay the remainder of his 2019 salary in the event that he is not added to anyone else's active roster.

They could have done right by the situation while still signing the guy they wanted to fill that roster spot.

EvilDead wrote:

Dammit, now I'm going to have that stuck in my head for the rest of the week (again)!

What we have here is a situation where a RickRoll would be a welcome relief.

*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Of course it's routine, but routine for a team that doesn't have Myles Garrett anymore. Just bad pr after getting good pr from his tragedy.

Oh I agree. Like I said last page, the screw-up isn't wanting to use his roster spot, it's declining to cook up a reason to stash him on IR and let him continue to get paid.

Either that, or, if they didn't want to get cute with skirting the NFL's IR rules (even though everybody does), at least agreeing to pay the remainder of his 2019 salary in the event that he is not added to anyone else's active roster.

They could have done right by the situation while still signing the guy they wanted to fill that roster spot.

I believe the article said he's a veteran so still gets his salary for the rest of the season regardless.

To think, he could've had the same back issue Jalen Ramsey had!

Hrdina wrote:
EvilDead wrote:

Dammit, now I'm going to have that stuck in my head for the rest of the week (again)!

What we have here is a situation where a RickRoll would be a welcome relief.

I'm waiting for someone to mention Blaine Gabbert.

Oops

EvilDead wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I have been making the argument that if there was a logical, geographical realignment of the divisions in which Buffalo went to the AFC North and Baltimore went to the AFC East, the Pats wouldn't have had 20 years of 7 bye week seasons and we'd be having the discussion of whether or not Ben Roethlesburger is the GOAT and Mike Tomlin is the greatest coach to ever hold a clipboard.

"Here's Brady's record against the Steelers in the Tomlin era:

-- 7-1 record
-- 70.8 completion percentage (207 for 282)
-- 2,571 passing yards
-- 23 touchdown passes
-- 1 interception"

You could argue the Pats might not have had as many wins in division. However, with those stats, I don't believe there is a world where Tomlin gets the greatest coach ever award. (It's 8-2 since that article)

How many of those were in Foxboro against a well rested Pats team (because of their aforementioned 7 bye weeks in the regular season and the resulting first round bye in the playoffs)? In a game measured in inches, these are advantages of miles.

Paleocon wrote:
EvilDead wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I have been making the argument that if there was a logical, geographical realignment of the divisions in which Buffalo went to the AFC North and Baltimore went to the AFC East, the Pats wouldn't have had 20 years of 7 bye week seasons and we'd be having the discussion of whether or not Ben Roethlesburger is the GOAT and Mike Tomlin is the greatest coach to ever hold a clipboard.

"Here's Brady's record against the Steelers in the Tomlin era:

-- 7-1 record
-- 70.8 completion percentage (207 for 282)
-- 2,571 passing yards
-- 23 touchdown passes
-- 1 interception"

You could argue the Pats might not have had as many wins in division. However, with those stats, I don't believe there is a world where Tomlin gets the greatest coach ever award. (It's 8-2 since that article)

How many of those were in Foxboro against a well rested Pats team (because of their aforementioned 7 bye weeks in the regular season and the resulting first round bye in the playoffs)? In a game measured in inches, these are advantages of miles.

3 spread to the home team is inches. Few of those games were close. Tomlin played the Patriots in the playoffs one time and lost. The other losses were to the Jaguars x2, Ravens, Broncos x2, and Packers in the Superbowl

If you want to argue that putting one of their hardest match up coaches in their division would make the division more competitive, sure. But that's a cherry pick. Saying that would make Belichick a nobody and Tomlin a genius is just hyperbole.

This is the NFL and no game is a given, especially divisional games. The Patriots have the same win rate vs the rest of the league then they do in the division. And they also have the best record, by far, against eventual division winners.

TheGameguru wrote:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...

One game?! Must be Bosa’s best buddy.

I'm just a near-40 year old white guy, but I don't understand how that is racist. He didn't say anything derogatory in the quote in the article. Saying someone has brown skin is racist? Was there more to it that the article didn't quote? I'm seeking understanding, not an argument.

LeapingGnome wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...

One game?! Must be Bosa’s best buddy.

I'm just a near-40 year old white guy, but I don't understand how that is racist. He didn't say anything derogatory in the quote in the article. Saying someone has brown skin is racist? Was there more to it that the article didn't quote? I'm seeking understanding, not an argument.

"He good cause he black."

Just insensitive. Dude represents an NFL team, so he should've been a bit more careful when saying Lamar's skin gives him an edge.

Try this quote from the OG article:

Dr. Harry Edwards, a sociologist, longtime civil rights activist and 49ers consultant, listened to the radio clip and said he was particularly troubled that Ryan’s comments perpetuated the bigotry involving black players and particularly the quarterback position.

“I know Tim and he is not of a maleficent mind relative to these types of issues — but of course that does not mean that he gets or should get a ‘pass’ regarding his comments on Lamar Jackson and assigning ANY dimension of Lamar’s undeniable brilliance at QB to his skin color — a raw and sensitive assessment and assertion not only because it is profoundly obtuse and ignorant on its face and carries implications that I’m certain were not intended, but because skin color has been such a factor in rationalizing denial of Black athletes’ opportunities to play the QB position over most of the NFL’s 100 years of existence,” Edwards wrote in an email to The Chronicle before Ryan was suspended.

“But again, no less damaging than the fact of Tim’s sentiments are their implications. In a game that is so competitive and where ‘winning edges and even slight advantages’ tend to be critically important if not determinant, are we really to believe that White QB’s are at a strategic disadvantage? Should the 2020 NFL player draft select for dark-skinned, athletic QB prospects in search of the next Lamar Jackson? Or maybe this puts a premium on QBs — irrespective of race — who can play well wearing the right color gloves — gloves that will give them the right hand hue to camouflage the football on handoffs.”

Edwards called the incident a “learning moment” and hoped Ryan would apologize and put the comments behind him.

“And then, let’s move on,” Edwards said. “Jimmy (Garoppolo) and LJ could very well lead their teams into the the NFC and AFC playoffs respectively, and perhaps even the Super Bowl — and the color of the hand that handles the football in contrast to who is simply the better QB will be of absolutely no consequence.”

LeapingGnome wrote:

Saying someone has brown skin is racist?

Pretty much. Niners Guy is suggesting that Jackson is good in this particular instance because of the color of his skin, not because he's smart or well-coached or talented or skilled at reading defenses whether he's running or passing. Couple that with a long national history of sh!t talking about black quarterbacks and a league where a lot of the best QBs aren't white and most of the players are black, and, well, here we are.

Here's a picture of Jackson from the game. I don't think you'll have any trouble finding the ball in that shot.

That makes sense. I didn't initially take it as him saying he is only good because he's black rather than his personal skill and talent, but I can see that perspective and how the implication perpetuates the racist history against black quarterbacks.

It took me a while to grok too, despite the obvious insensitivity of it. By comparison, you don't ever hear commentators talk about how white pitchers have an inherent advantage because it's harder to see how the ball is coming out of their hand.

Reminds me of Jimmy the Greek.

Jimmy (the Greek) Snyder, CBS Sports commentator, analyst and oddsmaker, was fired by the network yesterday after a controversial television interview Friday in which he said many blacks were superior athletes because of breeding from the time of slavery and that the only area in sports left for whites was coaching.

It's weird for me to be rooting for Dak because it's sickening to root for the Cowboys, but Jerruh hasn't properly paid him yet so I'll keep rooting.

Also, Bears helmets are weird.

Enix wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

Saying someone has brown skin is racist?

Pretty much. Niners Guy is suggesting that Jackson is good in this particular instance because of the color of his skin, not because he's smart or well-coached or talented or skilled at reading defenses whether he's running or passing. Couple that with a long national history of sh!t talking about black quarterbacks and a league where a lot of the best QBs aren't white and most of the players are black, and, well, here we are.

Here's a picture of Jackson from the game. I don't think you'll have any trouble finding the ball in that shot.

I feel like I've been a pretty strong advocate for black quarterbacks, and someone that has been able to properly recognize the caliber and details of a QB's play without bringing any racially-based assumptions into those assessments. I was on the Lamar wagon since early in the draft process last year, and literally begged the Jaguars to take him, and freaked out afterwards when they didn't. So I hope I'm understood that way as I explore the topic at hand a little.

Richard Sherman talked about this incident, saying Ryan chose his words poorly, but that he wasn't exactly wrong about his point. Thinking about it a little bit, I think we can see why.

Pro players really get down into the tiny details. We've heard numerous times before about defensive linemen who get a read on run vs. pass plays from offensive linemen based on the coloration of the lineman's knuckles while they're in their stance (whitened/discolored knuckles indicate the lineman leaning his weight forward, likely indicating he's going to shoot forward at the snap to run block).

When we're talking about a QB pulling the ball out during a read option really damn fast, I don't doubt for a second that the visibility of the ball during that fast movement, and a player's ability to recognize it in the fractions of a second it happens in, can absolutely be influenced by things like lighting, contrast with the player's jersey, and yes, contrast with the player himself. Not that the ball disappears or anything, but again, we're talking about pro players and getting *way* down into the weeds of tiny details.

The problem, of course, is that Ryan as a broadcaster saying it in reference to a black quarterback does not exist in a vacuum. There's a mountain of historical context that makes statements like that hard to justify using within a broadcast. Because at that point, it's not just about the literal message, but also about how the audience is likely to interpret the message. Even if accidental, it steps right into some well-worn dog whistle territory.

Further, when you bring something like that up in a broadcast, the fact that you bring it up in that setting does not convey that you're talking about a tiny detail. It makes it sound like a much bigger factor than it is in reality. So even if there is a degree of literal truth to the notion, bringing it up like that gives the idea a scale much larger than it deserves, which then comes across as downplaying Lamar's achievements and attributing them to his skin color.

I think Tim Ryan the broadcaster got a little too carried away digging into the small details that Tim Ryan the defensive tackle would notice in the film room. I don't think there was malicious intent in his statement. And even if we accept what he stated is true, I do not think it mitigates the impressiveness of Lamar's performance on the field in any way. Lamar has to do a million things right before a tiny thing like that can be even a little bit of a factor.

That all said, it's still dumb to bring up. There's no need to get that far into the weeds when talking about the performance of an MVP caliber performance, and the fact that this particular detail involved skin color makes it especially dumb to turn into a talking point.

So is that your week 14 opener?

Stele wrote:

So is that your week 14 opener?

LOL. God no. I sure did forget about doing the thread tonight though. Oh well, might as well wait until tomorrow.

I am gonna check and see what color gloves Teddy's been wearing.

Randy Johnson was quite a fair skinned white dude. Maybe they're on to something...

Nah.

So I get to the bottom of Legions wall of text, which was very well thought out and I was still processing, then Stele just about makes me spit out my drink. Well done Stele, well done...

Trubisky has two good games in a row. Franchise QB confirmed.

My friend and I have been laughing at that absurd-ass take for 24 hours now.

Anyway, Mitch Trubisky is beating the heck out of the Cowboys right now. RE: the NFC East -

Prederick wrote:

Bill Simmons suggested that none of them should be let into the NFL playoffs, and I agree.

Prederick wrote:

Anyway, Mitch Trubisky is beating the heck out of the Cowboys right now.

Only because Dak is wearing full length white sleeves.

Spoiler:

/s, for the love of god, /s

Hey, Trubisky has 2019 Brady stats! (I heard that on the radio but wouldn't be surprised if true)

On the topic of race, Trent Williams had some choice words about Bruce Allen in a story in the Post today:

“It just goes to show you how behind the times [Allen] is, and he still tries to use that money to hold it over black athletes,” Williams says.
*Legion* wrote:
Enix wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

Saying someone has brown skin is racist?

Pretty much. Niners Guy is suggesting that Jackson is good in this particular instance because of the color of his skin, not because he's smart or well-coached or talented or skilled at reading defenses whether he's running or passing. Couple that with a long national history of sh!t talking about black quarterbacks and a league where a lot of the best QBs aren't white and most of the players are black, and, well, here we are.

Here's a picture of Jackson from the game. I don't think you'll have any trouble finding the ball in that shot.

I feel like I've been a pretty strong advocate for black quarterbacks, and someone that has been able to properly recognize the caliber and details of a QB's play without bringing any racially-based assumptions into those assessments. I was on the Lamar wagon since early in the draft process last year, and literally begged the Jaguars to take him, and freaked out afterwards when they didn't. So I hope I'm understood that way as I explore the topic at hand a little.

Richard Sherman talked about this incident, saying Ryan chose his words poorly, but that he wasn't exactly wrong about his point. Thinking about it a little bit, I think we can see why.

Pro players really get down into the tiny details. We've heard numerous times before about defensive linemen who get a read on run vs. pass plays from offensive linemen based on the coloration of the lineman's knuckles while they're in their stance (whitened/discolored knuckles indicate the lineman leaning his weight forward, likely indicating he's going to shoot forward at the snap to run block).

When we're talking about a QB pulling the ball out during a read option really damn fast, I don't doubt for a second that the visibility of the ball during that fast movement, and a player's ability to recognize it in the fractions of a second it happens in, can absolutely be influenced by things like lighting, contrast with the player's jersey, and yes, contrast with the player himself. Not that the ball disappears or anything, but again, we're talking about pro players and getting *way* down into the weeds of tiny details.

The problem, of course, is that Ryan as a broadcaster saying it in reference to a black quarterback does not exist in a vacuum. There's a mountain of historical context that makes statements like that hard to justify using within a broadcast. Because at that point, it's not just about the literal message, but also about how the audience is likely to interpret the message. Even if accidental, it steps right into some well-worn dog whistle territory.

Further, when you bring something like that up in a broadcast, the fact that you bring it up in that setting does not convey that you're talking about a tiny detail. It makes it sound like a much bigger factor than it is in reality. So even if there is a degree of literal truth to the notion, bringing it up like that gives the idea a scale much larger than it deserves, which then comes across as downplaying Lamar's achievements and attributing them to his skin color.

I think Tim Ryan the broadcaster got a little too carried away digging into the small details that Tim Ryan the defensive tackle would notice in the film room. I don't think there was malicious intent in his statement. And even if we accept what he stated is true, I do not think it mitigates the impressiveness of Lamar's performance on the field in any way. Lamar has to do a million things right before a tiny thing like that can be even a little bit of a factor.

That all said, it's still dumb to bring up. There's no need to get that far into the weeds when talking about the performance of an MVP caliber performance, and the fact that this particular detail involved skin color makes it especially dumb to turn into a talking point.

Sorry but what he said was racist. You can try to explain it away but that just tries to justify it. Of course Sherman isn’t going to blast the organization given he’s at the end of his career and trying to hang on with a winner. If this was really a thing we’d see every Team try and change uniforms into camouflage so their QB’s look like footballs.

I’m sad that it’s even trying to be explained. I’m also sad the guy got a slap on the wrist instead of getting fired. Just shows how little progress we have made. It’s completely transparent but yet there’s hoops jumped through to cut a white guy a break. He removed Jackson as a human being who is talented and said because he is black he has an unfair advantage.

*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Of course it's routine, but routine for a team that doesn't have Myles Garrett anymore. Just bad pr after getting good pr from his tragedy.

Oh I agree. Like I said last page, the screw-up isn't wanting to use his roster spot, it's declining to cook up a reason to stash him on IR and let him continue to get paid.

Either that, or, if they didn't want to get cute with skirting the NFL's IR rules (even though everybody does), at least agreeing to pay the remainder of his 2019 salary in the event that he is not added to anyone else's active roster.

They could have done right by the situation while still signing the guy they wanted to fill that roster spot.

I don’t know if this is the worst things the Browns have done. But it’s damned close.

UpToIsomorphism wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Of course it's routine, but routine for a team that doesn't have Myles Garrett anymore. Just bad pr after getting good pr from his tragedy.

Oh I agree. Like I said last page, the screw-up isn't wanting to use his roster spot, it's declining to cook up a reason to stash him on IR and let him continue to get paid.

Either that, or, if they didn't want to get cute with skirting the NFL's IR rules (even though everybody does), at least agreeing to pay the remainder of his 2019 salary in the event that he is not added to anyone else's active roster.

They could have done right by the situation while still signing the guy they wanted to fill that roster spot.

I don’t know if this is the worst things the Browns have done. But it’s damned close.

As a veteran, the CBI states that he is still eligible for his entire 2019 salary. I wonder if that also extends to benefits as well. It does still look pretty sh*tty, but I am holding out faint hope that this was something discussed with the player and that he had some input in it. Who knows? Maybe he was looking to be available for other teams.

TheGameguru wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
Enix wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

Saying someone has brown skin is racist?

Pretty much. Niners Guy is suggesting that Jackson is good in this particular instance because of the color of his skin, not because he's smart or well-coached or talented or skilled at reading defenses whether he's running or passing. Couple that with a long national history of sh!t talking about black quarterbacks and a league where a lot of the best QBs aren't white and most of the players are black, and, well, here we are.

Here's a picture of Jackson from the game. I don't think you'll have any trouble finding the ball in that shot.

I feel like I've been a pretty strong advocate for black quarterbacks, and someone that has been able to properly recognize the caliber and details of a QB's play without bringing any racially-based assumptions into those assessments. I was on the Lamar wagon since early in the draft process last year, and literally begged the Jaguars to take him, and freaked out afterwards when they didn't. So I hope I'm understood that way as I explore the topic at hand a little.

Richard Sherman talked about this incident, saying Ryan chose his words poorly, but that he wasn't exactly wrong about his point. Thinking about it a little bit, I think we can see why.

Pro players really get down into the tiny details. We've heard numerous times before about defensive linemen who get a read on run vs. pass plays from offensive linemen based on the coloration of the lineman's knuckles while they're in their stance (whitened/discolored knuckles indicate the lineman leaning his weight forward, likely indicating he's going to shoot forward at the snap to run block).

When we're talking about a QB pulling the ball out during a read option really damn fast, I don't doubt for a second that the visibility of the ball during that fast movement, and a player's ability to recognize it in the fractions of a second it happens in, can absolutely be influenced by things like lighting, contrast with the player's jersey, and yes, contrast with the player himself. Not that the ball disappears or anything, but again, we're talking about pro players and getting *way* down into the weeds of tiny details.

The problem, of course, is that Ryan as a broadcaster saying it in reference to a black quarterback does not exist in a vacuum. There's a mountain of historical context that makes statements like that hard to justify using within a broadcast. Because at that point, it's not just about the literal message, but also about how the audience is likely to interpret the message. Even if accidental, it steps right into some well-worn dog whistle territory.

Further, when you bring something like that up in a broadcast, the fact that you bring it up in that setting does not convey that you're talking about a tiny detail. It makes it sound like a much bigger factor than it is in reality. So even if there is a degree of literal truth to the notion, bringing it up like that gives the idea a scale much larger than it deserves, which then comes across as downplaying Lamar's achievements and attributing them to his skin color.

I think Tim Ryan the broadcaster got a little too carried away digging into the small details that Tim Ryan the defensive tackle would notice in the film room. I don't think there was malicious intent in his statement. And even if we accept what he stated is true, I do not think it mitigates the impressiveness of Lamar's performance on the field in any way. Lamar has to do a million things right before a tiny thing like that can be even a little bit of a factor.

That all said, it's still dumb to bring up. There's no need to get that far into the weeds when talking about the performance of an MVP caliber performance, and the fact that this particular detail involved skin color makes it especially dumb to turn into a talking point.

Sorry but what he said was racist. You can try to explain it away but that just tries to justify it. Of course Sherman isn’t going to blast the organization given he’s at the end of his career and trying to hang on with a winner. If this was really a thing we’d see every Team try and change uniforms into camouflage so their QB’s look like footballs.

I’m sad that it’s even trying to be explained. I’m also sad the guy got a slap on the wrist instead of getting fired. Just shows how little progress we have made. It’s completely transparent but yet there’s hoops jumped through to cut a white guy a break. He removed Jackson as a human being who is talented and said because he is black he has an unfair advantage.

I remember people making similar arguments to justify what Jimmy the Greek said. And back then, they sh*tcanned his ass.

It really makes me wonder if we are making any social progress at all.

Jimmy the Greek's comments were way, way worse.

garion333 wrote:

Jimmy the Greek's comments were way, way worse.

You determined that how?? to who? you speak for how many people?

TheGameguru wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Jimmy the Greek's comments were way, way worse.

You determined that how?? to who? you speak for how many people?

"Black folks are taking over sports because of eugenics."

"Dark uniform, dark skin, dark ball was harder to see."