2020 NBA Catch-All: Offseason

Lakers up 24 - 8 on Kobe Bryant Day.

We're running low on Dame Time.

I was afraid the first game was fool’s gold.

I still find the deification of Kobe gross as hell.

Vector wrote:

I still find the deification of Kobe gross as hell.

I'm struggling with it as well. So just know you're not alone. It's really sad when someone dies young, obviously. In Kobe's case he has a complicated legacy, though, but we're breezing right by that.

Lakers fan here, but I have only been able to catch the occasional game. I'm not watching nightly so I don't have a good idea about how much deification is happening on the daily broadcasts. It's not hard to imagine what it looks like though.

No one should mistake him for a god or anything of the sort but Kobe is undeniably a basketball legend.

I don't understand how the abrasive and contemptuous aspect of his personality could be airbrushed out - he wore them openly. I know he appeared to relax some in the last few years but it was a small sample size.

If you're talking about the rape charges from 2003, I was thinking about that and realized if you're under ~30 you didn't experience all the media coverage in real time. I dont think many kids under 13 or so would really have followed it. And the older I get the more I get the sense that sports coverage (e.g. ESPN and sports talk shows) are aimed at people 25 and under.

For what it's worth I was surprised at how profoundly I was affected by Kobe's death. 7 months ago feels like years away now, but it really started 2020 in a tailspin.

Zwickle wrote:

If you're talking about the rape charges from 2003, I was thinking about that and realized if you're under ~30 you didn't experience all the media coverage in real time. I dont think many kids under 13 or so would really have followed it. And the older I get the more I get the sense that sports coverage (e.g. ESPN and sports talk shows) are aimed at people 25 and under.

I'm 34 so I remember everything but it certainly is not known to most of the world. It's been swept under the rug and really shouldn't be. He was a fascinating person with a bunch of interests but was also a rapist. The last part is extremely important and something that makes me turn off the TV when I see his face.

Vector wrote:
Zwickle wrote:

If you're talking about the rape charges from 2003, I was thinking about that and realized if you're under ~30 you didn't experience all the media coverage in real time. I dont think many kids under 13 or so would really have followed it. And the older I get the more I get the sense that sports coverage (e.g. ESPN and sports talk shows) are aimed at people 25 and under.

I'm 34 so I remember everything but it certainly is not known to most of the world. It's been swept under the rug and really shouldn't be. He was a fascinating person with a bunch of interests but was also a rapist. The last part is extremely important and something that makes me turn off the TV when I see his face.

Yeah. During the coverage I even found my wife at times getting emotional about some of the tributes and I just sat there stone-faced like, "Dear wife, you remember the news at the time. You know what happened."

I don't want to tell my wife she's wrong for getting emotional, but I couldn't help but think the coverage, commercials, etc. were emotionally manipulative in only remembering him as a fierce competitor and not someone with a problematic legacy to say the least. It's frustrating.

Looks like nobody here mentioned it but Brown is out as coach in Philly. The consensus is they need more of a discipline-oriented coach than a pal of a coach. I would imagine Thibodeau is regretting signing with the Knicks right about now.

The GM also came out and said he isn’t looking to trade Simmons or Embiid. I’m the old man yelling at a cloud now with this, but this got me thinking about The Process some more.

It’s hard to come up with direct comparisons because there hasn’t really been a player like Simmons. Magic and LeBron are similar but they weren’t totally averse to jump shooting. With that in mind, I did think of some non-shooting ball handles paired with bigs that share some DNA with Embiid. Payton-Kemp came to mind. Parker-Duncan. Rondo-Garnett.

If they’d signed Bojan Bogdanovic instead of Horford and kept Butler I wonder how things would have turned out. I think if you surround them with shooting they stand a shot. That’s why I say give them another 3-4 years to figure it out. I was still living with roommates and working at the grocery store when I was their age. Jordan was repeatedly losing to the Pistons.

The problem with the waiting to get it figured out is players tend to peak and decline in their late 20s and Embiid, and now Simmons, are starting to have injuries pile up. The 76ers definitely some sort of overhaul, however. Not with Embiid and Simmons but with everyone around them. Harris is a good player and an appropriate fit but they need a dynamic outside scorer as well. If they could afford it, wouldn't be surprised if they make a run at Fred VanVleet.

FVV would be interesting. I know they don’t have cap space for him but they could look at a sign and trade for Horford, since Gasol’s contract is up. Not sure the Raptors would bite and it would cost them a lot of draft equity.

I think their recent win-now moves (Horford and Harris in particular) were pretty abysmal, but I lay a lot of their struggles at the feet of Embiid and Simmons. Embiid for not getting in shape and doing his best to stay healthy and Simmons for not learning to shoot (or not admitting that he's shooting with the wrong hand).

If I were the GM for the team it would be hard to not consider trading one or the other. They seem like a terrible fit. Simmons is best when he can drive, but that's where Embiid does his best work. So Embiid floats outside where he's less efficient. It just seems obvious to me that they can't efficiently play together.

*loads up trade machine*

Tobias Harris and picks for Chris Paul?

Mind you, I don't think anything matters until Simmons actually shoots.

Jason Kidd wasn't much of a shooter in college. But he worked on it and managed a solid career as a 10 time all-star with 1 ring and 2 gold medals.

27% from 3 as a rookie but managed 3 seasons above 40% and career average right at 35%.

DSGamer wrote:

It just seems obvious to me that they can't efficiently play together.

You live in a world of extremes. They were a miracle shot away from the ECF last year. If Wade and Shaq could win together I think these guys can figure it out. Maybe not win a championship, again, most good teams don’t win championships. But they can be a 50+ win team for the next half decade, and there is value in that. Their GM says he’s looking to better complement their talents.

Roke wrote:

*loads up trade machine*

Tobias Harris and picks for Chris Paul?

Mind you, I don't think anything matters until Simmons actually shoots.

Brad Beal is who immediately came to mind for me, but you have to convince the Wizards that it’s too late for them to win with him, and that could be tough rowing. There would also likely be other bidders with more assets like Brooklyn.

I think Horford is more likely to move than Harris. Horford has the lower salary for fewer years and plays better defense. He’s a very good player but a bad fit with this team. A couple teams that come to mind as possible destinations are the Lakers and Mavs. The Lakers have money coming off the books but I’m ot sure if it’s enough. If they stumble in the playoffs and decide they need better than McGee and Dwight next to AD, Horford could be an option. The Mavs, it would be a win-now move when their core is young, but Luka might be special enough to jump the gun. Hardaway and some filler would probably get the math right. Mavs might not want to mess with their chemistry though.

DSGamer wrote:

I couldn't help but think the coverage, commercials, etc. were emotionally manipulative in only remembering him as a fierce competitor and not someone with a problematic legacy to say the least. It's frustrating.

I dont doubt that in the slightest. Commercials in particular are mostly blatant emotional manipulation.

I guess I feel fortunate that I was raised not to revere professional athletes as idols/gods/role models. Root for them and admire some of their accomplishments, but know they are absolutely human and flawed, even if they have superhuman athleticism it doesn't make them role models. To bring it back, advertisers are the ones who push the role model messaging.

Any Lakers fan who thinks otherwise is delusional. I adored Magic Johnson as a kid. He didn't get HIV in a tragic accident, e.g. a blood transfusion. He was having sex with someone other than his wife. He's done a lot of great and admirable things since, but one doesn't erase the other. I still really like Magic, but he also did a terrible job running the team...last year (was it only a year ago?) And left in a terrifically unprofessional way. That's all part of his legacy.

Blind_Evil wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

It just seems obvious to me that they can't efficiently play together.

You live in a world of extremes. They were a miracle shot away from the ECF last year. If Wade and Shaq could win together I think these guys can figure it out. Maybe not win a championship, again, most good teams don’t win championships. But they can be a 50+ win team for the next half decade, and there is value in that. Their GM says he’s looking to better complement their talents.

Fair enough. I'm talking about winning a title. They can win games, but it's not pretty or efficient and arguably the reason they made it to the brink of the ECF is because of Butler.

What a weird day with no games in the afternoon.

Now finally the Jazz and Nuggets are on. Utah came out blazing 16-6, but it's gotten a little closer. Hope they close it out tonight and get some rest.

Jazz would face the winner of Clips/Mavs right?

Blind_Evil wrote:

Jazz would face the winner of Clips/Mavs right?

Yes.

Murray with the big 3rd quarter and it's tight again.

DSGamer wrote:
Blind_Evil wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

It just seems obvious to me that they can't efficiently play together.

You live in a world of extremes. They were a miracle shot away from the ECF last year. If Wade and Shaq could win together I think these guys can figure it out. Maybe not win a championship, again, most good teams don’t win championships. But they can be a 50+ win team for the next half decade, and there is value in that. Their GM says he’s looking to better complement their talents.

Fair enough. I'm talking about winning a title. They can win games, but it's not pretty or efficient and arguably the reason they made it to the brink of the ECF is because of Butler.

It isn’t reasonable to measure NBA success by titles. Twelve franchises have won titles in the last 40 years. Philly happens to have one in that period, the year before I was born.

Some fun stats: 10 franchises have more than one chip. 9 franchises have only one. 11 franchises have zero. The league, the sport maybe, is not build for parity.

Blind_Evil wrote:
DSGamer wrote:
Blind_Evil wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

It just seems obvious to me that they can't efficiently play together.

You live in a world of extremes. They were a miracle shot away from the ECF last year. If Wade and Shaq could win together I think these guys can figure it out. Maybe not win a championship, again, most good teams don’t win championships. But they can be a 50+ win team for the next half decade, and there is value in that. Their GM says he’s looking to better complement their talents.

Fair enough. I'm talking about winning a title. They can win games, but it's not pretty or efficient and arguably the reason they made it to the brink of the ECF is because of Butler.

It isn’t reasonable to measure NBA success by titles. Twelve franchises have won titles in the last 40 years. Philly happens to have one in that period, the year before I was born.

Some fun stats: 10 franchises have more than one chip. 9 franchises have only one. 11 franchises have zero. The league, the sport maybe, is not build for parity.

True enough. I should be more clear here, because I'm not explaining that part of my criticism of the Sixers comes because of how they built this team. I'm coming with some baggage and I'm not explaining myself thoroughly.

Basically, I'm not a fan of The Process™, basically. So I'm judging them on the goals of what they set out to do. I think what the proponents of The Process would tell you is that the years and years of tanking and losing was worth it, precisely because they would be in the hunt for championships. I'm measuring the success of the team by that standard.

Embiid and Simmons can probably play together. But some 50 win teams and yearly first round exits won't justify the years of losing and tanking, IMO. I think they should try to figure out how to get over the hump in order to salvage something from that project.

Stele wrote:

Murray with the big 3rd quarter and it's tight again.

Murray too hot, Jazz let one get away.

Stele wrote:
Stele wrote:

Murray with the big 3rd quarter and it's tight again.

Murray too hot, Jazz let one get away.

Agreed. And now the Clippers have another 20 point lead early. Dallas is not going to do anything in the playoffs until they learn that the first quarter counts in games too...

I don't think Thibs would be a good fit in Philly. Embiid and Simmons are both temperamental and I can see Thibodeau losing them in less than a month with his style.

Philly is capped out and I think they are going to waste the primes of Simmons and Embiid trying to recover from the terrible Harris and Horford signings (either keeping them and not being able to sign anyone else, or having to give up assets to trade them). Sure 50 wins and 1st and 2nd round playoff exits are nice, but I think most people will not see that as a good enough result from what they went through to get here.

DSGamer wrote:

But some 50 win teams and yearly first round exits won't justify the years of losing and tanking, IMO.

To pick a nit, this is their first loss in the first round. Their first winning year they beat the Heat 4-1 and lost to the Celtics in the second round (that Celtics team would push the Cavs to seven in the ECF). Last year they beat the Nets in five and lost to the eventual champion Raptors in 7.

This year is the outlier.

Carlisle tossed, this one's over. Good night.

Must have learned it from Kawhi.