Help me build my PC 2020 Catch All

Chairman_Mao wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
Jonman wrote:

I just upgraded my monitor from a 1440p 60Hz one to a 1440p 144Hz one.

How much time did you spend looking at your mouse pointer?

by "did" do you mean "still even a year later"?

One day I'll get a 240hz monitor and I won't even get around to playing a game with it.

*Legion* wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
Jonman wrote:

I just upgraded my monitor from a 1440p 60Hz one to a 1440p 144Hz one.

How much time did you spend looking at your mouse pointer?

by "did" do you mean "still even a year later"?

One day I'll get a 240hz monitor and I won't even get around to playing a game with it.

It's not nearly that big a difference after 144hz.

*Legion* wrote:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/jKtM5z4.png)

OK, I'm definitely CPU bound right now. Certainly can't reach 100 fps with my 2080ti. No point looking at the new 3000s until a new mobo/cpu is installed.

[im]patiently waiting for the Zen3 Ryzens...

Is a 144hz monitor worth it if you are never going to have a video card good enough to hit those frame rates in games? I've honestly ignored new monitors for a long time. I'm still maxing out at 1080p 60hz.

mrtomaytohead wrote:

Is a 144hz monitor worth it if you are never going to have a video card good enough to hit those frame rates in games? I've honestly ignored new monitors for a long time. I'm still maxing out at 1080p 60hz.

I’ve been thinking about this too. I have a 1080p 60hz monitor. And just a gtx 1060, with a pretty old cpu. Was wanting to maybe upgrade my monitor now, and then maybe do a new build within a year or so. But wasn’t sure how to think about monitors that my current pc might not take advantage of. Like a 1080p 144hz, or even if a 1440p monitor would be ok before I have a setup to really take advantage of it.

mrtomaytohead wrote:

Is a 144hz monitor worth it if you are never going to have a video card good enough to hit those frame rates in games? I've honestly ignored new monitors for a long time. I'm still maxing out at 1080p 60hz.

as long as you never get one, you'll never know what you're missing.

mrtomaytohead wrote:

Is a 144hz monitor worth it if you are never going to have a video card good enough to hit those frame rates in games? I've honestly ignored new monitors for a long time. I'm still maxing out at 1080p 60hz.

When I bought my 1440p 144Hz monitor, it was mostly for the GSync. That was only available on high end, high refresh rate monitors at the time. Variable refresh rate is a bigger deal the lower your frame rate is, so it didn't really matter that I wasn't hitting 100Hz in most games.

If buying today, I'd be tempted by the plethora of Freesync monitors available that max out at 90 or 100Hz and get the benefits of VRR for much lower cost.

I bought my first 144Hz monitor last year. It's still 1080p as I still don't intend to leave that resolution for the foreseeable future. Once high quality 1080p at high frame rates became affordable at my usual build price (500 to 700 initial for the core system then meaningful upgrades every year or two), that was all the convincing I needed.

Jonman wrote:

What's MaxQ in this context? Some sort of maximum load i.e. complicated scene to render?

Also, I wish these kind of comparisons stretched further back so those of us on a >1 generation upgrade cycle can see what ridiculous improvements we can expect to see.

The game might not even on run on max quality that far back. The 1080 might have enough horsepower, but I'm not sure it would have enough VRAM. I'm quite sure this 970 wouldn't hack it.

So, I'm still not sure I got an answer other than, don't bother unless you want to spend $$$.

mrtomaytohead wrote:

Is a 144hz monitor worth it if you are never going to have a video card good enough to hit those frame rates in games? I've honestly ignored new monitors for a long time. I'm still maxing out at 1080p 60hz.

Yes, it's good. You might (might) even hit very slightly higher frame rates than you did before, assuming you keep the same resolution, and typically use V-Sync on.

I haven't checked in the last couple of months, but good-quality monitors were in seriously high demand (I wonder why), and therefore hard to find and/or overpriced by scalpers. If it hasn't gotten much better, you might want to wait a bit longer, or watch for inventory updates like a hawk.

mrtomaytohead wrote:

Is a 144hz monitor worth it if you are never going to have a video card good enough to hit those frame rates in games? I've honestly ignored new monitors for a long time. I'm still maxing out at 1080p 60hz.

Well, how good or crappy is the monitor you have now?

You don't just buy a 144hz monitor for the 144hz, but the rest of the picture quality as well. If you're on something old and crappy, maybe something that doesn't have great motion performance, then there might be a lot you can get out of a new monitor aside from the high refresh rate support.

As for "never having a video card good enough to hit those frame rates", well, for one that's probably not true. Lots of games that benefit from high refresh target low minimum system requirements. If you have a GPU that can play modern games at all, it can probably play at least the "e-sport" class of titles above 60hz with some minor settings twiddling. Also, you don't have to hit a full 144 before you start seeing benefit. Going from 60 to 80 or 90 is immediately obvious.

Plus, there's over a decade of older 3D games that your GPU is like a supercomputer for, many of which can be run at high refresh.

Windows looks like it wants to do its 2004 update. I've been running 1904 with no real issues. I know there was a bunch of issues with 2004 when it first came out a few months ago, but my basic google fu seems to indicate that we're mostly past those now.

Any thoughts from the GWJ collective? Does HAGS actually have any benefit?

Carlbear95 wrote:

Windows looks like it wants to do its 2004 update. I've been running 1904 with no real issues. I know there was a bunch of issues with 2004 when it first came out a few months ago, but my basic google fu seems to indicate that we're mostly past those now.

Any thoughts from the GWJ collective? Does HAGS actually have any benefit?

If that's the update that it just insisted I install... well... this time I didn't have to nuke the whole system and reinstall, so this is worlds better than the last time it insisted I had to update.

I installed it last week when it insisted, so far bo issues.
I'd recommend a backup before you install though just in case.

3080 Reviews and benchmarks are going up all over, FYI.

Initial observations: Well, that's pretty good. Seeing some benchmarks at 1440p and 4k where the 3080 has a higher 1% low framerate than the 2080 Ti's average.

I'm going down the road of upgrading my aging rig and monitor from something that runs a 1080p monitor at okay framerates to a 1440p monitor that's either 32" or 34" ultrawide. This is gonna get expensive.

It's been a looooong time since I've really looked deeply into hardware, since my last full upgrade was a gameguru special, and then piecemeal updates since then. I'm currently running an i7-4790k, RX 480, and 16gb RAM. At this point, it's full rebuild time if I want to make the jump to 1440p.

My initial plan was upgrade the monitor now and live with the current machine, knowing it wouldn't do super well, but probably well enough to get by with the games I play. Then I started looking a bit more seriously at ultrawide monitors, and I'm pretty sure that'll be too much of a stretch for what's in here.

Then I was thinking "what if I went monitor now, Geforce 3070 for Christmas, full rebuild around that card later?" My CPU would absolutely bottleneck it, but my power supply is a 650w Corsair, so the rig should support running it, and it'd still give me a big boost.

This morning, I read through the Tom's review of the 3080, and that's got me thinking that for the $200 premium, the performance gain of the 3080 might be worth it, even if it's just that the card would stay viable longer. But the 3080 probably wouldn't be okay with my current power supply, and once I'm replacing the power supply, why not do a full build?

So I did some reading through a few "best of" articles on Tom's and RPS, and put together a super quick and dirty build list based on that. It looks like this thing would run me something like $1900, with the monitor on top of that. That's a bit higher than I'd like, but I'm not certain where I can shave cost. I know power supply prices are elevated right now. I could definitely go cheaper on the case, but I also want one that's nice to work in, because the one I have now is definitely not. I could probably go cheaper on the motherboard and CPU, but I don't know enough yet to know for sure, and I don't want to cheap out and bottleneck the video card.

The other option is sticking with the 3070 instead, which means I could save $200 right there, and probably get a 650w power supply, which would also help. Heck, I could swipe the power supply I have now, and get a cheaper/smaller one to go in my existing machine later. Anyone have thoughts?

*Legion* wrote:
mrtomaytohead wrote:

Is a 144hz monitor worth it if you are never going to have a video card good enough to hit those frame rates in games? I've honestly ignored new monitors for a long time. I'm still maxing out at 1080p 60hz.

Well, how good or crappy is the monitor you have now?

You don't just buy a 144hz monitor for the 144hz, but the rest of the picture quality as well. If you're on something old and crappy, maybe something that doesn't have great motion performance, then there might be a lot you can get out of a new monitor aside from the high refresh rate support.

My current 'main' monitor is a 35" Vizio TV because my older monitor died and it wasn't in use. It works, but definitely could be much better with motion. I also have a slightly older 24" 1080p Samsung LCD as a 2nd screen, but that doesn't seem to be much better with motion.

Would I be better served with something like 120hrz, 100hz, or even a good quality 60hz? Where can I go to get a good rundown to help me figure this out? I've not found anything when looking. I'm not into esports. I've played Apex and Rocket League, but stopped a while ago and am not motivated to "git gud" or even go back.

Your storage solution seems expensive and odd. I understand wanting a faster, smaller SSD for an OS drive. The problem is for what you are paying or perhaps a hair more, you could get a fast 1TB SSD. That is what I would prefer but others could weigh in...

Also $170 ish for a case is high for me. I know there are case aficionados on these boards but you could easily knock off $100+ there too.

The performance gains with the 3080 are well worth the extra $200 with one caveat. Is all of that extra performance going to be wasted? Do you need those extra dozens of frames in 1440p? Are you even planning on or feel it is necessary to game at 4K? Are we still a year or more away from caring about ray tracing? What will AMD's new gpus do to the market? (if anything?)

My opinion?
-The 3080 is more expensive, for now, than the new Xbox and PS5. So that means the new consoles are a better bet if you care about ray tracing and 4K.
-The 3080 will not even come close to the combined sales of the next xbox and PS5. They will use AMD's ray tracing. Put two and two together and you get markedly better ray tracing adoption for AMD from the consoles.
-The extra dozens of frames at 1440p is the most significant and long term benefit. But only if you pair it with a 144hz monitor. I don't have experience with them, but I still feel they are a luxury item. It will matter a lot more 5 years from now though.
-I get the feeling I will have to be forced into 4K gaming, far in the future. There is no benefit on smaller screens. (27" or below) And I will not game on anything higher unless it is couch gaming some distance away. (27" is a stretch too) The thing is, at those distances, the impact of 4K is lessened to be nearly moot. Plus there are also the huge advances in upscaling technology which will give you more mileage on older technology.
-I predict that AMD will force $50 price reductions from Nvidia next month. I think they will introduce a gpu that sits between the 3070 and 3080 in performance for $500 or maybe $550 with lower power consumption and more VRAM. The benchmarks for the 3080 are between 25-80% better than a 2080. I'd expect the new radeon to be say 20-50% better than the 2080. (based on a mish mash of questionable leaks)

Weighing in... I'd get a larger ssd drive. 500gb min.

mrtomaytohead wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
mrtomaytohead wrote:

Is a 144hz monitor worth it if you are never going to have a video card good enough to hit those frame rates in games? I've honestly ignored new monitors for a long time. I'm still maxing out at 1080p 60hz.

Well, how good or crappy is the monitor you have now?

You don't just buy a 144hz monitor for the 144hz, but the rest of the picture quality as well. If you're on something old and crappy, maybe something that doesn't have great motion performance, then there might be a lot you can get out of a new monitor aside from the high refresh rate support.

My current 'main' monitor is a 35" Vizio TV because my older monitor died and it wasn't in use. It works, but definitely could be much better with motion. I also have a slightly older 24" 1080p Samsung LCD as a 2nd screen, but that doesn't seem to be much better with motion.

Would I be better served with something like 120hrz, 100hz, or even a good quality 60hz? Where can I go to get a good rundown to help me figure this out? I've not found anything when looking. I'm not into esports. I've played Apex and Rocket League, but stopped a while ago and am not motivated to "git gud" or even go back.

The motion issues you're noticing probably might have more to do with the screen's response time than the refresh rate. Poor response time can lead to "ghosting" on moving objects on the screen.

If your main concern is visual fidelity and immersion and you don't play fast-paced competitive esports stuff, I would look for a 1440p IPS display with good response time and not worry overly much about refresh rate. 1440p/60fps with high settings is a good target for an immersive experience in single player games and one that won't require constant expensive GPU upgrades to achieve in new titles and IPS gives you the best overall color fidelity of the three panel types.

Something like this LG model I think is right up your alley. 1440p, IPS, 5ms response time, actually 75hz refresh rate which is a nice bonus over 60hz, has FreeSync and since it's a new model I imagine it plays nicely with Nvidia cards too, and it won't break the bank.

The storage is definitely more of a placeholder. I have a 1tb SSD right now that I only use for game installs, and I'll probably be moving that over to the new machine. I was thinking dedicated 250gb SSD for the OS and a big magnetic drive for everything else, but maybe it makes more sense to just get a second 1tb SSD, create a 200gb OS partition, and use the rest for other stuff. Basically same thing with the case, I just haven't done the looking around to find a cheaper option that does what I want, which isn't much.

Whatever monitor I get will probably be a 144Hz one, but I'm kind of expecting most of that benefit to come from non-game stuff, since it'll also be the primary monitor for my work laptop. The extra frames the 3080 can deliver right now are less of a factor for me than the extra frames it'll deliver in 3-5 years, where it might be the difference between upgrading now vs upgrading in another year.

What AMD announces is the big unknown, obviously. My current and previous cards were AMD, so I've got no loyalty to Nvidia, I just want best bang for the buck. If AMD comes out with something in between the 3070 and 3080, that'd be awesome. Even better if it pulls less power than the 3080, so I can delay a rebuild for a while too.

The other thing here is that there's a good chance I pick up a Series X at some point in the near future too. I'm mostly exploring real world costs on each of the options. I'll probably be upgrading my monitor, Xbox, and PC within the next year or so, I just need to figure out when to make each of those jumps.

I'm far from an expert, but I've been looking at cases in the last few weeks too, and that Lian Li Lancool 2 Mesh is massively overpriced due to low stock and the fact that what seems to be the most popular case of its type (the Phantek P500A) is sold out everywhere. My understanding is that it SHOULD be more in the $100 range. If you need to buy right now (ie, before that price goes back to normal and/or the P500A is in stock again), the CoolerMaster H500 might be a solid choice offering similar features, and currently available on Amazon for $120, or the Phantek P400A for about $90. (My main reference here is this buyers guide from about two months ago.)

What AMD announces is the big unknown, obviously. My current and previous cards were AMD, so I've got no loyalty to Nvidia, I just want best bang for the buck.

Yeah, my point wasn't whether to buy AMD or Nvidia. (other than the suppositions on ray tracing adoption)
There are a few options: AMD does or does not disappoint.
-AMD disappoints means the 3080 maintains or possibly increases in price due to availability.
-AMD does not disappoint but Nvidia decides not to lower prices. Could still net a hike due to availability.
-AMD does not disappoint and Nvidia lowers prices but only on the 3080 means you saved $50ish.
-AMD does not disappoint and Nvidia lowers prices opens up the most options: price/brand/model/availability/wattage/vendors/cryptomining

zeroKFE wrote:

I'm far from an expert, but I've been looking at cases in the last few weeks too, and that Lian Li Lancool 2 Mesh is massively overpriced due to low stock and the fact that what seems to be the most popular case of its type (the Phantek P500A) is sold out everywhere. My understanding is that it SHOULD be more in the $100 range. If you need to buy right now (ie, before that price goes back to normal and/or the P500A is in stock again), the CoolerMaster H500 might be a solid choice offering similar features, and currently available on Amazon for $120, or the Phantek P400A for about $90. (My main reference here is this buyers guide from about two months ago.)

Don't sleep on the be quiet! 500DX either. It's currently only $100 on Amazon and I really like the looks. Maybe I have Cylon/Kitt issues. Don't kink shame.

mrtomaytohead wrote:

Would I be better served with something like 120hrz, 100hz, or even a good quality 60hz?

Panels aren't like CPUs, they're not arranged by refresh rate. If you see a panel that's 100hz or 120hz instead of 144hz, it's because the particular combination of panel size and technology comes in that refresh rate. In other words, nobody is making 100hz 1440p IPS panels as "cheaper" options to 144hz 1440p IPS panels, the 100hz panel is 100hz because it's a curved VA ultrawide or something. If a high quality gaming monitor is only 60hz, it's because it's a 4K panel.

Mostly it seems like you're just looking for recommendations. I would begin with Rtings' best monitor list. My standard recommendation is one of the 27" 1440p IPS 144/165hz panels, like the ASUS TUF that that list has in the FreeSync section, or the ViewSonic in the G-Sync section. If that tier of monitor is outside of your intended budget, Rtings also has a more fleshed out budget gaming monitor list with some good options, including a 1440p monitor at each of the three main display tech types.

peanut3141 wrote:

Don't sleep on the be quiet! 500DX either. It's currently only $100 on Amazon and I really like the looks.

I built a system in the 500DX and it was great. Worth the $99.

I have zero proof but also zero doubts that this is the greatest most awesome case ever cased. My upcoming rig will hopefully be built on it.

Thank you for the monitor responses. Like I said before I have not paid any attention over the years so everything said was informative. I'll head over to rtings for now.