Help me build my PC 2020 Catch All

Zen+ is all sorts of f*cked up for sure.

This is partially why the 4000 mobile chips being as good as they are is such a surprise. They're just 3000 series desktop chips really, but with different power limits and other odds and ends.

Intel was just even lazier on mobile than they've been on desktop, apparently, as there's almost no circumstances where the Intel mobile chips are better. I believe they even lose the gaming lead there when the GPU's are equal, despite still holding it on the desktop.

Depends what you mean by lazy.

If effort is measured by the sheer dizzying number of mobile chip SKU's released so that every two and a half months there's a new i5-8573QW or something released, then Intel has been working very hard!

If effort is measured by releasing new products that are actually a meaningful improvement over their old products... um... well...

Given all of the "love" heaped onto NewEgg a few pages back, some of the snarky wits around here might be willing to give them some suggestions. And no, I'm not affiliated with them in any way; I just got the email and chuckled derisively.

Lots of MS Techs!
Lay One
Bought the Farm
Down the Hatch
Humpty Dumpty
Sunny Side Down
Your Brain on Drugs

Since they used to be good, I suggested "GoT Season 8".

I missed the NewEgg "love." What's the problem with them? I've used them pretty much for all my PC builds and haven't had any issues.

I use NewEgg all the time.. I just make sure to buy from newegg and not the marketplace.

mwdowns wrote:

I missed the NewEgg "love." What's the problem with them? I've used them pretty much for all my PC builds and haven't had any issues.

I would buy most things from Newegg still (real Newegg not marketplace) but I don't think I would ever buy a monitor, their return policy sucks compared to Amazon.

I'm glad you've had good experiences with NewEgg. I haven't, recently, even with non-marketplace listings, and their pricing generally isn't any better than Amazon's. I've given up on them, which is a crying shame, because I used to love giving them business.

One of my first orders from them, I really needed to get it quickly, so I clicked for the 1-day express shipping option. The shipping readback screen said something along the lines of, "You clicked for 1-day shipping, but we believe that the free Egg Saver shipping (3-5 day) will still get to you in 1 day. Do you want to switch to Egg Saver?" I switched, and indeed, it got to me as promised in 1 day. I've never seen any site before or since do that.

As 7nm schedule continues slipping, Intel contemplates 3rd-party fabs.

Subhead: Intel's 7nm parts are now projected to arrive alongside TSMC's 3nm, in 2022/23.

Intel is failing hard. Boy, downsizing all those engineers was a great move, eh?

With the way we operate capitalism now, it should be called fatalism.
No redundancy, resiliency or margins.
Perhaps that is its slogan:
Margins over margins
or:
Margins vs. margins
"Hey, if we reduce our margin of error by 50%, we can increase our margins by 5%, win!"
"If we don't diversify, we can better compete!"
"R & D is expensive. Lets outsource or get the government to pay for it!"
"Buy American!"

Alrighty, time to start pricing a new cpu+ram+mb.

I should only be looking at Ryzen atm, right?

garion333 wrote:

Alrighty, time to start pricing a new cpu+ram+mb.

I should only be looking at Ryzen atm, right?

Short answer is yes. Best value is still the R5 3600. The XT versions are not worth the price difference.

Try to get at least 32000Mhz RAM, and it might be worth a little research about compatibility between RAM and MB since I've read people having trouble getting some kits to the max speed. For reference, I have a ASroxk X570 Pro, and I bought a Trident Z Neo 3600Mhz kit that was on their compatibility list. I had no trouble in running it at 3600Mhz right away.

A X570 mobo may also not be worth the money, but I bought mine when B550 was not available and you could not reliably get a B450 with an updated BIOS.

Malor wrote:

As 7nm schedule continues slipping, Intel contemplates 3rd-party fabs.

Subhead: Intel's 7nm parts are now projected to arrive alongside TSMC's 3nm, in 2022/23.

Intel is failing hard. Boy, downsizing all those engineers was a great move, eh?

Something that doesn't get talked about enough is how computing made a vast shift in the direction of pocket and handheld devices, and Intel managed to get almost entirely shut out of the chipmaking for that market. How the likes of friggin Qualcomm managed to snap up this massive market from under Intel's nose, and Intel failed to do anything about it.

Now ARM is muscling in on x86 space in a very direct way, with Apple moving the Macintosh to ARM chips.

Intel missed the boat on the biggest industry shift of the past decade-plus, and now they can't even take care of business in their old market. God help them when datacenters finally stop making Intel an automatic choice.

*Legion* wrote:
Malor wrote:

As 7nm schedule continues slipping, Intel contemplates 3rd-party fabs.

Subhead: Intel's 7nm parts are now projected to arrive alongside TSMC's 3nm, in 2022/23.

Intel is failing hard. Boy, downsizing all those engineers was a great move, eh?

Something that doesn't get talked about enough is how computing made a vast shift in the direction of pocket and handheld devices, and Intel managed to get almost entirely shut out of the chipmaking for that market. How the likes of friggin Qualcomm managed to snap up this massive market from under Intel's nose, and Intel failed to do anything about it.

Now ARM is muscling in on x86 space in a very direct way, with Apple moving the Macintosh to ARM chips.

Intel missed the boat on the biggest industry shift of the past decade-plus, and now they can't even take care of business in their old market. God help them when datacenters finally stop making Intel an automatic choice.

Strange thing is Intel sold their Xscale ARM business to Marvell years ago assuming they could lower power requirements of x86 enough I assume.

garion333 wrote:

Alrighty, time to start pricing a new cpu+ram+mb.

I should only be looking at Ryzen atm, right?

I don't think I'd be looking at anything else. You might want to hang on for the rest of the 4XXX chips, with their next Zen core, as they may be noticeably better than the 3XXX series.

I'm thinking that 8 cores is probably what you want, to match the consoles. They probably won't be clocked as fast as PCs, but they'll be more efficient, so you might really benefit from having at least as many CPUs.

When you consider that a CPU can easily last seven years or more these days, the extra coin for 8 cores doesn't seem unreasonable. It's fairly likely to amortize over a long period. Seven years from now, we'll probably be buying 16-core processors that run at about 4GHz.

Pink Stripes wrote:

A X570 mobo may also not be worth the money, but I bought mine when B550 was not available and you could not reliably get a B450 with an updated BIOS.

Too right. With B550, manufacturers have finally all gotten on board with well-engineered power handling features, and AMD has backed that with a smart chipset design which is intended to handle all but the most demanding performance scenarios. There's almost too much value in the new crop of B550 boards, as few people will really make use of the extra features of X570.

The only thing I hope can be engineered out of a future revision are the chipset fans I'm seeing. I get why they're necessary, but for me that brings back bad Intel memories from the past.

FWIW when X570 boards first came out I was really worried about those tiny chipset fans being noisy, and what happens when they fail. But most people who have them seem to report the chipset fan only ever spins at all on bootup.

Thanks all, I'm thinking of maybe buying the 3600X (though the price drops on the standard 3600 are awfully tempting). I'm rather indifferent between the B and X series boards and will likely buy whatever one I can get on a good sale here in the coming weeks/months.

Time is on my side in that regard.

I hear you, Malor, on the 8 core, but I'm not terribly concerned as my goal is to spend a reasonable amount now then pass the computer on to my oldest kid in a couple years. Then I'll build whatever monster I want for myself.

Middcore wrote:

FWIW when X570 boards first came out I was really worried about those tiny chipset fans being noisy, and what happens when they fail. But most people who have them seem to report the chipset fan only ever spins at all on bootup.

I have one and I do not hear it at all, either under load or under regular desktop use.

Pink Stripes wrote:
Middcore wrote:

FWIW when X570 boards first came out I was really worried about those tiny chipset fans being noisy, and what happens when they fail. But most people who have them seem to report the chipset fan only ever spins at all on bootup.

I have one and I do not hear it at all, either under load or under regular desktop use.

My main problem with them is that board manufacturers often don't pick great fan components, and that means it's going to die faster than other stuff. That was my problem with the Intel boards that had them way back when. Either it would start rattling, or it'd be dead and the system wouldn't inform me other than strange intermittent symptoms when the chipset overheated. On many boards rigging up a replacement was a challenge.

Nonstandard fans are scary. If they're using a standard small size, though, like the 40x10s, it's easy to source quality replacements.

That's why I bought the Raspberry Pi case I'm using now, because the first case's fan was atrocious and died after just a couple of months. The new one is a standard 40x10, quiet, and moves a surprising amount of air for such a small thing. If it breaks, replacements are omnipresent and hardly cost anything.

Konami making prebuilds

I think this is interesting if not a bit strange.

JohnKillo wrote:

Konami making prebuilds

I think this is interesting if not a bit strange.

Initially read this as Kotaku, that would've been even stranger.

So, posting about my build's 9th anniversary last month and browsing this thread made me realize (or skewed my mind to think it came up with the idea on its own) that I need to upgrade. So many things have changed, AMD seems to be the way to go both with CPU and GPU, and in that order of ideas I ask, Is there any brand you recommend above others when it comes to GPUs? I prefer Evga but they seem to be Nvidia only, I wonder what's a good alternative to them when it comes to AMD/Radeon's chipsets.

Feeank wrote:

So many things have changed, AMD seems to be the way to go both with CPU and GPU,

Not quite. CPU side, yes, Intel is just not bringing the value right now.

GPU side is very different, AMD offerings are solid performers for their price up to the mid range but they have nothing to compete with Nvidia at the top end right now, some (though not all) people have problems with AMD's graphics drivers, and in general AMD's cards lack the extra software features of Nvidia's products.

New generations of cards from both "teams" are due out in the fall so the landscape could change then, especially with AND-based graphics hardware in both of the new consoles, but right now I would say buying an Nvidia card at your chosen price point is an all-around safer bet for most people. (I say this as someone who has been using an AMD RX 5700 in my PC for most of the past year and liking it, just being "objective.")

If you do decide to go AMD, Sapphire is usually considered the "flagship" brand for their cards the way EVGA sometimes is for Nvidia (although EVGA is far from faultless, mainly they just have really good customer service). The three-way tie for the best version of the RX 5700 XT, which is AMD's current top card, is between the Sapphire Nitro, PowerColor Red Devil, and the Gigabyte triple-fan version.

Middcore wrote:
Feeank wrote:

So many things have changed, AMD seems to be the way to go both with CPU and GPU,

Not quite. CPU side, yes, Intel is just not bringing the value right now.

GPU side is very different, AMD offerings are solid performers for their price up to the mid range but they have nothing to compete with Nvidia at the top end right now, some (though not all) people have problems with AMD's graphics drivers, and in general AMD's cards lack the extra software features of Nvidia's products.

New generations of cards from both "teams" are due out in the fall so the landscape could change then, especially with AND-based graphics hardware in both of the new consoles, but right now I would say buying an Nvidia card at your chosen price point is an all-around safer bet for most people. (I say this as someone who has been using an AMD RX 5700 in my PC for most of the past year and liking it, just being "objective.")

If you do decide to go AMD, Sapphire is usually considered the "flagship" brand for their cards the way EVGA sometimes is for Nvidia (although EVGA is far from faultless, mainly they just have really good customer service). The three-way tie for the best version of the RX 5700 XT, which is AMD's current top card, is between the Sapphire Nitro, PowerColor Red Devil, and the Gigabyte triple-fan version.

Thanks Middcore, In that case I'll rather stick with Nvidia/Evga if possible, the name Radeon brings terrible memorys from ye olden days. I would, however, prefer a small factor GPU (single fan), but apparently those aren't as quiet or reliable as the 2-fan versions? My current rig was built with a big GTS 450 that lasted for about 3-4 years, I remember that near the end it had this weird, coil shrinking sound. It's smaller succesor (GTS 750TI) has been much more reliable on the sound department, though it's still noticeable under heavy load.

2070 super = $499 (-20%)
2080 = $799-$840 (-12%)
2080 super = $699-$729 (-10%)
2080 ti = $1199-$1279 (best)

5700XT = $369-$379 (-24%)
5700 = $329 (-30%)

Based on that, I don't see a case for anything Nvidia unless you are sitting on piles of cash. Then you go 2080 ti because that is the only card that can somewhat handle 4k gaming and you won't care that it will be replaced within 3-5 months by the 3080 or AMD's Big Navi.

Is it worth over $100 more for 5% with the 2070 Super?
Is the 2080 worth two 5700 XT's?
Seriously, who pays $1200+ for a gaming video card that wouldn't be better served by a Quadro professional gpu? f*ck Nvidia for charging whatever they felt like because they had no competition. The only good thing I see from Nvidia is on high end pre-builts like Alienware that are practically giving away 2080 Supers in their systems right now. Actually, the 2080 super might not be a bad buy but still it is almost double the 5700XT in price?

fangblackbone wrote:

2070 super = $499 (-20%)
2080 = $799-$840 (-12%)
2080 super = $699-$729 (-10%)
2080 ti = $1199-$1279 (best)

5700XT = $369-$379 (-24%)
5700 = $329 (-30%)

Seriously, who pays $1200+ for a gaming video card that wouldn't be better served by a Quadro professional gpu?

I don't think I'll even spend more than $800 on the whole build! I have zero need nor desire for 4k gaming so I'd rather study the mid range offer on gpus.

Feeank wrote:
Middcore wrote:
Feeank wrote:

So many things have changed, AMD seems to be the way to go both with CPU and GPU,

Not quite. CPU side, yes, Intel is just not bringing the value right now.

GPU side is very different, AMD offerings are solid performers for their price up to the mid range but they have nothing to compete with Nvidia at the top end right now, some (though not all) people have problems with AMD's graphics drivers, and in general AMD's cards lack the extra software features of Nvidia's products.

New generations of cards from both "teams" are due out in the fall so the landscape could change then, especially with AND-based graphics hardware in both of the new consoles, but right now I would say buying an Nvidia card at your chosen price point is an all-around safer bet for most people. (I say this as someone who has been using an AMD RX 5700 in my PC for most of the past year and liking it, just being "objective.")

If you do decide to go AMD, Sapphire is usually considered the "flagship" brand for their cards the way EVGA sometimes is for Nvidia (although EVGA is far from faultless, mainly they just have really good customer service). The three-way tie for the best version of the RX 5700 XT, which is AMD's current top card, is between the Sapphire Nitro, PowerColor Red Devil, and the Gigabyte triple-fan version.

Thanks Middcore, In that case I'll rather stick with Nvidia/Evga if possible, the name Radeon brings terrible memorys from ye olden days. I would, however, prefer a small factor GPU (single fan), but apparently those aren't as quiet or reliable as the 2-fan versions? My current rig was built with a big GTS 450 that lasted for about 3-4 years, I remember that near the end it had this weird, coil shrinking sound. It's smaller succesor (GTS 750TI) has been much more reliable on the sound department, though it's still noticeable under heavy load.

The compact, single fan cards, except for relatively entry-level cards that don't need much cooling anyway, do tend to be hotter and louder than cards with two or three fans, yes. The general rule is the smaller the fan and the faster it spins, the more noise it makes. A single fan just has to work a lot harder to achieve the same cooling and still usually fails.

The most powerful cards offered in a compact, single-fan form factor would probably be something like this EVGA RTX 2060, although I frankly don't think a 2060 is worth that price. If you don't care about the RTX features then EVGA also uses the same cooler design on the 1660 Super at a more modest price point.

There are also a couple of options for dual-fan cards that are still quite compact. Asus sells a dual-fan "mini" version of the 2070, 2060, and 1660 Super that's only 8 inches long. Zotac has a 2070 Super variant that's only slightly bigger than that which I think is probably the single strongest small form factor card you can get currently... although Zotac is a brand that people tend to either love or hate and I can't recommend spending that much on any card right now on the eve of a new hardware generation.

If you are targeting $800 as the budget for the whole build then the 1660 Super is probably in your wheelhouse, it's certainly adequate for any current game at 1080p/60fps, or 1440p/60fps "AAA" gaming or 1080p/100+ fps for online "esports" gaming with some settings adjustments.