Remnant from the Ashes

Played some more Co-op last night and had a ton of fun. I like that it rewards you for joining a friends game that might not have the same content as your own world. We were able to fight different bosses I had not seen yet and get gear unavailable in my own play through.

They have a system in place that can easily be expanded on, throwing new bosses and items into the mix at all difficultly levels. If they come through with ongoing content support I have a feeling this could be a game I revisit a few times a year in the long run. Here's hoping they are able to pull it off.

Are you guys playing co-op, on voice chat? If so, which app?

EDIT: NM, Discord it is

Hedinn wrote:

This game is not coop only, plenty of people killed Gorefist and other bosses solo. People do it on harder difficulties as well. This argument is at least a decade old, ever since Demon's Soul came out. Or earlier. :)

I've played and beaten all the Souls games as well as many of the clones like The Surge, I think I'm pretty "gud" when it comes to these types of games. It's not that Remnant is hard, but that the semi-random nature of world generation can make already difficult fights even harder for some players if they get unlucky by limiting the item pool or the order of some fights that are already explicitly designed for multiple players. The Root Mother event, for instance, is going to be next to impossible for solo players who have slower weapons and haven't had access to the materials for several upgrades because they won't be able to take down the swarming enemies fast enough before the npc gets mobbed. I think I'm about 2/3rds of the way through the game at this point and well over half of the fights have devolved into "throw a dozen adds at the player at once while the boss does massive aoe." I've enjoyed the game but these aren't terribly well crafted fights.

I tried it briefly, i just requested a steam refund.

HATE the movement in every way.

ruhk wrote:
Hedinn wrote:

This game is not coop only, plenty of people killed Gorefist and other bosses solo. People do it on harder difficulties as well. This argument is at least a decade old, ever since Demon's Soul came out. Or earlier. :)

I've played and beaten all the Souls games as well as many of the clones like The Surge, I think I'm pretty "gud" when it comes to these types of games. It's not that Remnant is hard, but that the semi-random nature of world generation can make already difficult fights even harder for some players if they get unlucky by limiting the item pool or the order of some fights that are already explicitly designed for multiple players. The Root Mother event, for instance, is going to be next to impossible for solo players who have slower weapons and haven't had access to the materials for several upgrades because they won't be able to take down the swarming enemies fast enough before the npc gets mobbed. I think I'm about 2/3rds of the way through the game at this point and well over half of the fights have devolved into "throw a dozen adds at the player at once while the boss does massive aoe." I've enjoyed the game but these aren't terribly well crafted fights.

Agreed, the Root Mother event, in particular, is a pure dps check - there is no room to kite, no strategies to employ (other than some item usage), if you don't have enough dps, you will get swarmed. Unless you are crazy good with dodging.

They should tune down the numbers of adds in boss fights IMO. Another thing adds do is introduce a lot of randomness into the fight - where they will spawn, how they will path to you, do you have to reload at some key moment, a combination of many random factors can result in you being cornered and swarmed. Too many adds = too much randomness.

I never liked boss fights in any games, I think it's a stupid and outdated mechanic. I played all Souls games for in between the bosses parts and Remnants is no exception.

Still though, most of the time Remnant bosses are soloable but whether it takes too much of practicing, thinking or grinding is up to an individual player. So far it's been manageable for me.

Balance and questionable coop matchmaking design aside, I am really enjoying this game.

ruhk wrote:

The Root Mother event, for instance, is going to be next to impossible for solo players who have slower weapons...

I forgot to comment on this one. If I understand it correctly (I've read about it today), everyone has access to SMG from the very beginning.

It's easy to miss though and, of course, I did miss it - I wanted to explore that bit but forgot. Going to get it tonight. I'll put more info under a spoiler tag.

Spoiler:

It's in Ward 13. When you went to start the reactor you should've seen the stairs going further down.

It's a nice weapon to have. Here is some additional info on how to get it:

My resolve is failing.... I may have to buy this.

I have had a costly neural network crunching the data for days now, and the results are in: you would have to be an enormous tool to fail to get at least $100 of enjoyment out of this $40 game.

The core combat loop is incredibly satisfying. The randomized world and boss pachinko is terrific, keeping things fresh across multiple play-throughs. Every sensible weapon combo is viable (in Normal and Hard, at least. Haven't done Nightmare yet).

Difficulty is very well tuned. Doing your first game on Hard will really force you to make your shots count in the world, and many bosses will require an error-free execution to beat. Normal lets you blaze away freely, but will definitely still kill you if you get careless. And you'll probably still take several tries on most of the bosses; you'll just be able to recover from a mistake or two rather than entering a death spiral after missing a roll. I recommend Normal for the first run if you're going to play solo, and Hard if you're going to co-op with someone competent.

Combo for first play-through that worked well for me was SMG and Sniper with the Slayer set, which can all be gotten on any campaign, regardless of world roll. Level your armor and weapons up evenly, not letting your weapons outpace armor by more than a point. Leave the boss weapons for later loops after you've beat the game once, and limit your weapon experimentation to the tier below your max tier (e.g., if you are getting Forged Iron in the world, then you can dump all the Iron you want while playing with other guns and armors, but save all your Forged Iron for your "primary" kit until you start getting Galvanized Iron).

Buy this game, play this game, tell your friends to buy this game.

Oh, and ALWAYS look for "tabs" up top when at any vendor, including those in the world. Very easy to miss that a rando consumable seller also sells an armor set.

Well I picked it up and have dumped a few hours into it now. It's really fun but super hard. I may just suck but I'm finding it harder than Dark Souls while also being more forgiving.

Just a warning, my co-worker joined a public game last night and their save was instantly boosted to max trait points as the host was cheating and affecting anyone who joined their game.

Arovin wrote:

Just a warning, my co-worker joined a public game last night and their save was instantly boosted to max trait points as the host was cheating and affecting anyone who joined their game.

From looking at the Steam reviews, this seems to be a common issue with the game. I'll probably hold off on grabbing it until this is resolved.

If it wasn't for damn ads the bosses wouldn't be so damned difficult. I've enjoyed what I've played of the game, but the never ending spawning of ads in boss fights is a cheap and uninspired way of adding difficulty.

Damn, this sounds like another in the increasingly long line of games where I'd love to see the world and lore they've built, but the difficulty is going to block me from seeing it. With the From games, I could usually get around it by summoning players for bosses, but it sounds like that won't be a simple option here. Oh well, maybe when it's down to $10 I'll give it a try.

PC here. 31059531 <--- steam friend code.

I have loved this game so far. The story is interesting, the sounds design is amazing (there are parts where I literally had a tear in my eye from just the impact of the sound). Good FPS action, with a number of fun secrets to find.

The game is HARD for sure, for the boss fights, but you learn that you have to be smart and move to win. You cant just stand there an unload your clip. Dodging and dodging, and please, use your consumables. They aren't that expensive (root resistance, fire resistance for sure, and who knew that the ammo boxes would be so valuable?).

The drop in co-op takes a moment to figure out.. I have had some many people join and then leave my game, I assume because they don't know that you can only join at a crystal, which I try to get back to/get to when I see someone join.

This is a fun single player game, but really excels at a co-op. Like others have said, the boss fights are pretty much not achievable with a single person. But the exhilaration of beating a boss with a group is the best.

I have put my steam friend code deal at the top. If you would live to play, post yours.

And... wouldn't you think there would be /party group chat? So many randoms (if just told one things for a boss fight) would be so much more successful in fights.

EverythingsTentative wrote:

If it wasn't for damn ads the bosses wouldn't be so damned difficult. I've enjoyed what I've played of the game, but the never ending spawning of ads in boss fights is a cheap and uninspired way of adding difficulty.

It would be a pretty meh experience if there wasn't challenge. Lol, this isn't WoW where you can just stand and shoot.
Yes, the ads get crazy, but it is about group play. Like for Ember, you just need to have 3 people, with 2 of them spread out max distance with long distance guns. They can pick off or draw off the adds. The close quarters player can go to town with their submachine run/assault rifle.
If all 3 group up you and toast, the adds will clump and explode and then its a quick 3 down.

Sometimes you use environmental objects (like the first boss, I forget its name).

I love the mental challenges this game creates.

Hedinn wrote:
ruhk wrote:

The Root Mother event, for instance, is going to be next to impossible for solo players who have slower weapons...

I forgot to comment on this one. If I understand it correctly (I've read about it today), everyone has access to SMG from the very beginning.

Don't you need the keycard to get there though, and that takes some exploring out in the world to find it.

cerithe wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:

If it wasn't for damn ads the bosses wouldn't be so damned difficult. I've enjoyed what I've played of the game, but the never ending spawning of ads in boss fights is a cheap and uninspired way of adding difficulty.

It would be a pretty meh experience if there wasn't challenge. Lol, this isn't WoW where you can just stand and shoot.
Yes, the ads get crazy, but it is about group play. Like for Ember, you just need to have 3 people, with 2 of them spread out max distance with long distance guns. They can pick off or draw off the adds. The close quarters player can go to town with their submachine run/assault rifle.
If all 3 group up you and toast, the adds will clump and explode and then its a quick 3 down.

Sometimes you use environmental objects (like the first boss, I forget its name).

I love the mental challenges this game creates. :)

I'm not saying that difficult games are a problem (Granted, I'm not one of those GITGUD NO EZ MODE folks). I'm just saying their way of adding difficulty is lazy. So far I've beat 3(?) bosses by myself, but they are not thrilling the way beating a boss in a souls game is. Getting one shot by an ad that spawned behind me before I could react 8 times in a row is not difficult. It's cheap and doesn't teach me anything.

EverythingsTentative wrote:

Getting one shot by an ad that spawned behind me before I could react 8 times in a row is not difficult. It's cheap and doesn't teach me anything.

Actually it does. That mobs will spawn behind you and you have to move accordingly...

ranalin wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:

Getting one shot by an ad that spawned behind me before I could react 8 times in a row is not difficult. It's cheap and doesn't teach me anything.

Actually it does. That mobs will spawn behind you and you have to move accordingly...

Mobs will instakill you and there is nothing you can do about it. You're right. I did learn something. Great game design doesn't do that.

EverythingsTentative wrote:
ranalin wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:

Getting one shot by an ad that spawned behind me before I could react 8 times in a row is not difficult. It's cheap and doesn't teach me anything.

Actually it does. That mobs will spawn behind you and you have to move accordingly...

Mobs will instakill you and there is nothing you can do about it.

that last bit just isn't true...

EverythingsTentative wrote:

. So far I've beat 3(?) bosses by myself, but they are not thrilling the way beating a boss in a souls game is. Getting one shot by an ad that spawned behind me before I could react 8 times in a row is not difficult. It's cheap and doesn't teach me anything.

You are obviously better than me. I cant imagine being able to solo the first 3 bosses.
That would be Gorefist, Root Mother, The Ent/Singe?
I could maybe seeing being able to solo Gorefist, but the adds on both sides of Root Mother would make keeping her alive very hard, and Ent/Singe might be manageable, but it would take a lot of rolling, some lucky non-one shots, and mob control.

My hats off to you. I cant see this being tuned for anything less than 2 players.

Yes, Gorefist and Root Mother aren't thrilling, but beating the Ent and Singe was pretty great.

ranalin wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:
ranalin wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:

Getting one shot by an ad that spawned behind me before I could react 8 times in a row is not difficult. It's cheap and doesn't teach me anything.

Actually it does. That mobs will spawn behind you and you have to move accordingly...

Mobs will instakill you and there is nothing you can do about it.

that last bit just isn't true...

I agree, like on The Ent if you just stand there the mortars will one shot you, but you learn to roll and dodge. And Singe if you don't move you get engulfed in flames. So yeah, both are totally avoidable one shots.

I haven't seen any bosses after Singe/Ent, so I cant speak to that.

ranalin wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:
ranalin wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:

Getting one shot by an ad that spawned behind me before I could react 8 times in a row is not difficult. It's cheap and doesn't teach me anything.

Actually it does. That mobs will spawn behind you and you have to move accordingly...

Mobs will instakill you and there is nothing you can do about it.

that last bit just isn't true...

How? How do you dodge an enemy that you don't know exist?

cerithe wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:

. So far I've beat 3(?) bosses by myself, but they are not thrilling the way beating a boss in a souls game is. Getting one shot by an ad that spawned behind me before I could react 8 times in a row is not difficult. It's cheap and doesn't teach me anything.

You are obviously better than me. I cant imagine being able to solo the first 3 bosses.
That would be Gorefist, Root Mother, The Ent/Singe?
I could maybe seeing being able to solo Gorefist, but the adds on both sides of Root Mother would make keeping her alive very hard, and Ent/Singe might be manageable, but it would take a lot of rolling, some lucky non-one shots, and mob control.

My hats off to you. I cant see this being tuned for anything less than 2 players.

Yes, Gorefist and Root Mother aren't thrilling, but beating the Ent and Singe was pretty great.

I wouldn't say that. This game just made me stubborn and mad last night. It's telling that I continue to play even though I haven't enjoyed the boss fights yet. I enjoy most everything else about it.

EverythingsTentative wrote:
ranalin wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:
ranalin wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:

Getting one shot by an ad that spawned behind me before I could react 8 times in a row is not difficult. It's cheap and doesn't teach me anything.

Actually it does. That mobs will spawn behind you and you have to move accordingly...

Mobs will instakill you and there is nothing you can do about it.

that last bit just isn't true...

How? How do you dodge an enemy that you don't know exist?

You learn the timings and the sound cues. There's 10s of thousands of folks who are also doing it every day.

ranalin wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:
ranalin wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:
ranalin wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:

Getting one shot by an ad that spawned behind me before I could react 8 times in a row is not difficult. It's cheap and doesn't teach me anything.

Actually it does. That mobs will spawn behind you and you have to move accordingly...

Mobs will instakill you and there is nothing you can do about it.

that last bit just isn't true...

How? How do you dodge an enemy that you don't know exist?

You learn the timings and the sound cues. There's 10s of thousands of folks who are also doing it every day.

How do you get your gun to shoot behind you, then get it to shoot again when you have been knocked, or shoot when you cough? Fine. It's possible. It's not fun. It's artificial difficulty. I don't get a sense of triumph when I win. I'm just glad it's done so I can see the next area.

I'm also not a fan of the frequency of bosses-with-adds, but it's just something that you develop the spidey-sense and capability for. You internalize how long you can sit and shoot before you roll, the sound cues, the lack of adds in your visual field despite knowing they should be spawned by now, etc.

Similar to challenges in the Soulses, dealing with stuff appearing behind you is just another skill you develop as you internally "level up" your ability to handle it. When you revisit early bosses it seems weird that you used to have such trouble managing adds while doing damage.

EverythingsTentative wrote:

It's not fun. It's artificial difficulty. I don't get a sense of triumph when I win.

I had the same feeling on the first few bosses. It's definitely not as satisfying as the "ah ha" of figuring out a mechanic to damage a boss, or perfectly getting an attack sequence down so it never hits you again. All I can say is that eventually it clicks, and it stops feeling onerous.