I was still feeling incredibly burned out with Tactics Ogre, but I fired up the game to attempt a single level before bed. I made it past that horrendous uphill climb against Hanzo and...Didn't go to bed for another hour as I played through The Royal City of Heim.
Still feeling tired from the lack of variation, and I'm pretty lost with the story, but the battles remain a lot of fun. enough fun to have me hooked past my bedtime!
Anyway, looks like I'm approaching the final dungeon. I've probably done something silly, but I've swapped out my mediocre classes for archers and ninjas at this point. I'm near the end, so the level imbalances hopefully shouldn't affect me too much.
I think if you're planning to not play pass the current route then it's no big deal. I'd recommend having everyone take Field Alchemy and loading up on healing items, makes Cleric redundant. Also, load up on Exorcism scrolls, at least 50 for the final route.
Oh geez, that's good advice but it's also making me feel a little bit...terrified.
Onward!
Update: Ugh, final dungeon is a slog.
A_Unicycle, I'm in the same boat. I'm finding it really hard to make the final push and finish the game, so I've definitely been finding reasons to play other things. At the same time, my completionist lizard brain was making me think, "look, maybe I should finish that Necromancer quest line before I head to the final area. But if I do that, I need to actually be able to recruit the bonus character at the end. And there's the pirate graveyard area..." But ultimately, as cool as I think the story is, I'm ready for the next thing and not going to play past the end.
Anyway, today, I hit a milestone...
Reunited with Catiua
I know I have several more story missions before I even get to the final dungeon, which itself is long. Time to brace myself and make a push.
You can do it LastSurprise! Once I got over my hump, I buckled down and found I was having fun despite my nitpicks. The battles ramp up in difficulty considerably, but it's a nice challenge despite the monotony and tedium. It's pretty satisfying!
So yeah, with that...I'm done! 45 hours.
I was pretty lost by the end because I stopped reading the Warren reports, but ,eh, I ultimately liked the game. It was phenomenal in the beginning when I was constantly discovering new classes and building up my main party, but you get so little of that near the end. I'd have liked it a lot more if the stream of new abilities and usable classes continued into late-game. It's such a shame that the balance of this game funnels you into a certain playstyle, but I'm willing to overlook that a little since it is a remake of a SNES game after all.
A few dotpoints to summarise my playthrough:
- Ninjas. Ninjas. Ninjas. incredible movement paired with double strike/upgraded weapons meant I could make a direct line for the enemy boss (while using the Ninja's natural evasiveness!) to win most maps pretty quickly
- Archers did the same, death from a distance!
- Monsters ALWAYS gave me a lot of trouble. Their resistance is just so damn high! This was a huge problem when I was faced with maps I couldn't instantly win by killing one enemy.
- My Wizard > Warlock rocked. Petrifog was nice on occasion, but Cragfall and the level 3 shot was doing 100-160 damage by end-game. I never got to use Draconic spells though.
- I barely ever used status ailments. I used Petrifog a handful of times at most, right near the end.
- I never managed to figure out how recruitment works. I just used whomever joined via the story. I also feel like I missed a tonne of content because it felt hidden behind obscure tasks and loopholes.
I was going to give a very loose ranking out of 10, but I'm finding it difficult. Early game was a solid 10/10, beautiful, perfection in sRPG form. But the final 15 hours were such a slog, that it really brought the experience down for me. The last few maps really challenged me, and were fun, but having a final dungeon of 15(?) kill-all-the-enemies maps started to piss me off.
Weird game, incredibly happy I got to play it. And I think I got a LOT more out of it having discussed it with you fine folk as I progressed. Onwards to next month!
Nice, congratulations! Level up incoming.
And thanks for the encouragement! I'm drawing ever closer. I've finished up the two battles on the route to Heim. So, from what I understand, I need to finish up Heim itself, plus then the final dungeon.
As I'm nearing the end of the game, I've realized that I reclassed into Warlock much too late. It's rendered my main wizard pretty much worthless offensively, and he's become a huge liability defensively. I might switch him back to a regular ol' wizard.
On the other hand, I've found that Valkyries are a great class. Between them, my new(ish) Cleric, and my new Princess, I have four characters who can cast Boon of Swiftness, so I am able to start off the battle by having a whole chunk of my party hastened. That's been huge for establishing an advantage early on.
Also, while I'm finding archers every bit as useful as other people here, I should say that it's really just Arycelle who's a huge asset to the team. I have another archer (Sara) who I use on occasion, by Arycelle is a beast and very few can match her damage output.
I totally agree that this game holds up really well for its time, and it wouldn't need a lot of updating to go from "really well for its time" to just downright great. If I could tweak just a few things, I'd do the following:
- Eliminate or mitigate the system of having classes start at level 1. I don't even mind leveling by class, but if that must be in the game then I'd like to see something like Fire Emblem's bonus XP, or Valkyrie Profile's ability to spend XP between battles on a class-wide basis. This could even be done in a system similar to how skill points are accrued and spent, here.
- Crafting sucks, but only a couple tweaks are needed to make it annoying-but-tolerable: let me craft in bulk (for ores and consumables, especially), and remove the chance of failure when crafting.
- I think the skill system easily could be great with a modern approach to skill trees.
- Let me see the map before I select units, and deploy units right onto the map.
If I could see some of these things changed, the main gameplay would still be grindy, but I'd have a lot less frustration between the missions and think I could power through much more effectively.
Well, being home sick kind of sucks, but if you're not too sick it's good for gaming! I've cleared the next two missions, which brings me to the Heim Grand Hall. I think that's all I have the stamina for today, but there is light at the end of the tunnel!
I know, from reading up on the endgame, that I have a beast of a final dungeon ahead of me after this. Any recommendations for tackling the Hanging Gardens?
Just what I posted before about lots of exorcism scrolls. It’s a real time saver if anyone can exorcise. Also you won’t be able to shop so stock up on healing items.
Yeah, I ran out of revive items and mana leafs. It wasn't pretty. Stock up, you'll need more than you think.
There are also a few maps where you will HAVE to kill dragons and golems. If you don't have a reliable means of doing so already, It's worth fixing that before going in. I used my Warlock/Wizard (Cragfall was hitting for 100+) and a Dragoon with a crossbow. Even then it was rough.
It's also worth upgrading the knockback skills as you can get some easy kills by pushing enemies off ledges (just keep in mind that it can happen to you too).
Goodluck! The final fight looks amazing. Colours and gorgous pixel art all throughout.
1. Pack petrify removing items, and spread them around.
2. There's one fight that I found TP and MP reducing items to be invaluable.
Thanks for the help! I finished Heim today, and then spent a bunch of money getting a whole lot of Exorcise scrolls (I probably have 40-50), buying and crafting a bunch of herbs, and buying revival stones. Also, TP and MP reducing items? Maybe I haven't been looking hard enough, but I don't even know what these are.
I haven't spent anything on better gear, and I'm wondering if I'm a bit under-leveled and under-equipped. My characters are generally around level 17-18, and the enemies on the first floor of the Hanging Gardens are around 22. I'm less concerned with the levels themselves, and more concerned with the idea that I might be using gear several levels under what I should be using. What do you guys think?
I was around level 21-22 for most of my team when I went through the Hanging Gardens, I'd suggest doing some grinding in the forest unless your running mostly ninja/archers
I meant TP and MP reducing spells. I had a couple of wizards with those spells, and they were the first and only time I used them in the game. But it really helped.
I actually only run one ninja (Denam) and two to three archers (Arycelle & Canopus, sometimes Sarah). I'm definitely thinking that more ninjas could be useful, although I've found valkyries super useful since discovering that they can hasten units, and I also really like holy knights given their stun blade ability. And I'm really intrigued by velocity shift (another holy knight ability), but haven't tried it much yet.
In general it's worth remembering that, once you finish one route, it opens up short cuts that bypass part of Heim and almost all of the Hanging Gardens for future play throughs. If you do get the hankering for another route :).
Well, over the past few days, I've grinded out a few maps: a couple of random encounters, and a couple of maps en route to the Palace of the Dead. I figure I might as well make some progress while I'm trying to level.
The classes I use are around level 18-19. I think 19-20 will be the sweet spot for me attempting the Hanging Gardens. It looks like the next tier of equipment sits at around 18-19, so upgrades will be at 19-20. So, if I buy and upgrade equipment for the party members I plan to use, I could start the gardens at 19, and either equip them right away, or as they hit that next level.
Well, over the past few days, I've grinded out a few maps: a couple of random encounters, and a couple of maps en route to the Palace of the Dead. I figure I might as well make some progress while I'm trying to level.
The classes I use are around level 18-19. I think 19-20 will be the sweet spot for me attempting the Hanging Gardens. It looks like the next tier of equipment sits at around 18-19, so upgrades will be at 19-20. So, if I buy and upgrade equipment for the party members I plan to use, I could start the gardens at 19, and either equip them right away, or as they hit that next level.
The first few maps of the forest is probably the best place to level up, only party of 6 so the battles go very quickly.
That’s fair. I just figured that I should start on some of the maps I hadn’t done yet. I don’t really know why I felt compelled to do this, as I know I want to press on to the end. Completionist impulses, maybe?
Today on my way to work, after refining some more armor for my squad, trying the pirate's graveyard, and promptly getting beaten down badly by a Kraken, I decided I was done with grinding and that it is time to attempt the Hanging Gardens. I've kitted out almost everyone in the best armor they can get, but my weapons aren't quite upgraded. We'll see how it goes!
Well, as you can all probably tell from my total lack of posting after October 1, I stalled out on the Hanging Gardens. It was a rough area, and I felt substantially under-geared and under-leveled. And, by the time we got to Oct. 1, I wanted to play Dragon's Crown and play other games. Grinding out those last few levels really did not appeal.
But it's vacation time, and 2019 is almost over, and it's time for one final push through the end of the game. First step: gearing up! It's a fire sale: everything must go to pay for my fancy new gear.
My first thought: man, I had forgotten how terrible the game's crafting system is. It's really, really bad.
Anyone else making a final run at this?
*hangs head in shame*
I was having quite a bit of fun with this one, but I got totally sidetracked into a Football Manager campaign and there went three months. I had so much hope for myself, but I don't think I'd be able to finish it with the time left.
Main things I remember from the hanging gardens:
1. The final battle is really cool.
2. There is some great ambiance the further you get in the dungeon.
3. Take some petrification resistant equipment with you. Some of the little imps have stone inducing blow darts which made me mad more than once.
4. There’s a lot of uphill battles, so your archers won’t be as useful as normal.
Good luck, you’re almost there!
I would say run though the forest a bit and level up your classes, as much as it pains for me to say, take the time and craft some new weapons/armor. I wouldn't worry about the advanced classes as much, I think at the end my Main guy was still just a basic warrior and I mostly ran 3 archers and two ninjas as my main damage dealing lot.
The Neutral route is still on my backlog. Don’t lock the thread just yet! 
Well, I've just finished ascending the Hanging Gardens, and so now I'm beginning the tomb. The end is in sight!
I would say run though the forest a bit and level up your classes, as much as it pains for me to say, take the time and craft some new weapons/armor. I wouldn't worry about the advanced classes as much, I think at the end my Main guy was still just a basic warrior and I mostly ran 3 archers and two ninjas as my main damage dealing lot.
I did this a little bit, though I didn't get / forge the best weapons available for everyone. My dragoon, in particular, has a two-handed sword that could have been better. And, although I have the Lombardia -- a great one-handed sword that you get in a story sequence, near the end, it's a Level 22 weapon so no one in my party can use it. Even after ascending the tower, we're mostly at level 20, with a few 21s and a few 19s.
My Denam looks a lot like the one Mr GT Chris posted a few pages back, though at a lower level. And my MVPs have to be Canopus -- both for damage and mobility -- and Arycelle, who hits like a freight train.
And I’m one fight away from the big finish! Probably will wrap this up tomorrow.
And the final boss is done! I really liked this two-part battle, as well as the battle right before it: they were all unique, when compared to the prior fights, and all really stood out to me. Plus, the final battle, phase 2, featured some really cool graphics to go with the boss' super move, which devastated multiple members of my party each time.
I wrote above about some of the things I didn't like, as the game drew to a close: the crafting system, that new units start at level 1, that you can't see the map before deploying forces. I also agree with A_Unicycle that the endgame was a real slog, with too much grinding and too many maps, and the slog was just uninteresting as you didn't get new usable classes, or new abilities. Too much of the late-game skills were just upgrades to prior passive skills.
But now I'd like to celebrate the things I really enjoyed:
- The story and writing, which were such a strong point and so distinctive.
- Tactically, I really liked the ability to move and do two actions: an attack / spell / item and a skill. That really made this game stand out in comparison to other tactical RPGs. But as some class skills were limited to "your next attack will hit really hard," I would like to have seen this idea developed even further.
- I loved how big and ambitious the game was. Being able to time-travel and return to all those anchor points? Having such robust post-game content? In an earlier age, without work (and new, great games knocking on the door), I could see myself coming back to this game across a year, to explore all of its ins and outs.
- Each family of spells was thoughtfully put together, and had some interesting abilities. I ended up under-utilizing magic (other than Light) because my physical damage output far exceeded magic damage, but there was some really good stuff here.
- While I found the crafting system frustrating, I thought it really cool that nearly every piece of gear could be upgraded, and I think the crafting system actually could have been good-to-great with a few minor tweaks (like buying in bulk, linking menus to allow you to buy ingredients directly, and removing the possibility of failure).
- The Warren Report made such an interesting way of communicating information to the player. I loved the stories for each named character, and I loved how it would keep the side quest information fairly vague while grounding it in the lore of the world. I also really enjoyed the number of titles given to Denam, and the focus on how he is perceived by the people around him.
My plate is clear and I'm ready to start Ys Origin tomorrow, when I get back home!
Awesome. The game is an absolute gem, but it’s definitely not short.
Congrats! I thought you did a nice summary of what made the game great.
To add another con, I thought being able to travel to anchor points to revisit and make different choices was great. However! (and it took me a few gos to realise this) Each anchor point is basically a save of the current state at that point in time. And, while revisiting that anchor point allows you to make a different choice and update the state at that point, it does nothing to change the state of future anchor points in the timeline. Here's an example of how it (doesn't) work:
You want to recruit character X. Unfortunately you missed the 3 conditions required to recruit them. Ideally, you want to jump to anchor point A - and not kill them, anchor point B - initiate a conversation with them, then finally anchor point C to have them join you. 3 battles and done. Unfortunately, since the future states don't update, you have to jump to anchor point A, then play through each and every battle all the way to anchor point C so all the states update correctly. That could be say, 10-20 battles!
Anyway, such a missed opportunity. I did go back and recruit quite a few of optional characters but, damn, it was frustrating. One time, I was rushing through to finish the conditions for one character and, in my hurry, I missed a condition for another character I'd already recruited and screwed that up. Bleh.
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