2019 NFL Offseason Extravaganza

The Pats don't play a boring style of football, it's just boring to see the same guys play in every big game. It's exciting to see, you know, someone else.

What also makes them boring is no rival for Belichick. When the Bill Walsh 49ers were a dynasty, Walsh had Bill Parcells (with Belichick working for him) as a rival. Parcells thought the West Coast style was soft, Walsh thought he was too smart for everyone else.

Belichick has no peer rival. Does anyone really think Mike Tomlin is up to being that? Nope.

Atras wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:
Aaron D. wrote:

Meh, I grew up in Boston and was glad to see the Pats win.

I know everyone outside of NE hates them, but I don't think we'll ever see this level of consistent performance in the NFL in our lifetimes.

That and your team has been co-opted by racists and white nationalists. Nothing you can control but it doesn’t help that your owner, Coach, and QB are all BFF’s with Trump.

But yeah we likely won’t see this level of consistency again anytime soon. Which honestly is for the best. Having one team dominate a sport isn’t all that exciting for the rest of the country.

You're sadly not wrong on either point. New England, for all of our capital-L liberal pedigree, has an ugly amount of racism that is just barely below the surface. Take that racism, apply a conservative space and some alcohol and it bubbles up way too easily. I really can't defend that on any level, and it sucks.

The one team being dominant is a puzzle to me, though. I don't think anyone would argue that New England has had a surplus of dominant players at a majority of important positions at any time in the last almost 20 years, but their record has been superlative. The coaching is obviously the most important part here, but every time some one complains that the Patriots are boring it makes me wonder why more teams won't be that boring, too; especially when it has worked for so long. There are good coaches out there, it should show up more often.

NE dynasty can be laid solely at the feet of Brady. When he is gone, their dynasty is over and there is nothing Belichek can do about it.

karmajay wrote:

NE dynasty can be laid solely at the feet of Brady. When he is gone, their dynasty is over and there is nothing Belichek can do about it.

Funny thing is, I disagree on this somewhat. I saw what Belichick could do with Matt Cassel. I saw how he developed Garoppolo. I have more faith in the coach than the quarterback if the two were split apart.

*Legion* wrote:

The Pats don't play a boring style of football, it's just boring to see the same guys play in every big game. It's exciting to see, you know, someone else.

What also makes them boring is no rival for Belichick. When the Bill Walsh 49ers were a dynasty, Walsh had Bill Parcells (with Belichick working for him) as a rival. Parcells thought the West Coast style was soft, Walsh thought he was too smart for everyone else.

Belichick has no peer rival. Does anyone really think Mike Tomlin is up to being that? Nope.

I think Andy Reid is as good a coach for 55 minutes a game. Wade Phillips can match him defensively. Rex Ryan had a lot of success on the defensive side of the ball. Mike Shanahan used to give him fits. Belichick is a master at the position, but I really don't think he's so much better than everyone that it's a sure thing the Pats win the AFC every year. I suspect a big part of it is that he knows he has an owner who believes in him. Maybe it was a bad idea to go for it on 4th and 2, but I understand where Bill was coming from on that call. Lots of other coaches would be fearing for their jobs if they gave up on 3 points in the Superbowl, but Kraft knows what he has in BB, so Bill can make the decision that he thinks is best and not worry about his own future.

*Legion* wrote:
karmajay wrote:

NE dynasty can be laid solely at the feet of Brady. When he is gone, their dynasty is over and there is nothing Belichek can do about it.

Funny thing is, I disagree on this somewhat. I saw what Belichick could do with Matt Cassel. I saw how he developed Garoppolo. I have more faith in the coach than the quarterback if the two were split apart.

He, or McDaniels, looked good with Garoppolo but the Cassel year was deceiving. They won 11 games but, IIRC, none of those 11 teams made the playoffs and possibly all ended less than .500 . Also, they didn't win the division that year.

I was a little off but my memory isn't far from the truth. The only "signature" win was against the Dolphins in their division. 11 wins below.

2:14 chiefs
9:7 jets
7:9 49ers
8:8 Broncos
2:14 rams
7:9 bills
11:5 dolphins
4:12 seahawks
5:11 raiders
9:7 cardinals
7:9 bills

Some of those names were good opponents, but none come close to being rivals. Rivals aren't guys that think they can beat you in a game, rivals are guys that think they can dismantle your legacy and expose you as a hack.

Walsh and Parcells were the dual tree trunks that represent the two backbone "coaching trees" that define the modern NFL. They represented polar opposites in the NFL narrative. That was interesting.

There's just nobody like that to stand up to Belichick, nobody that thinks Belichick's way is flawed and that they have the answer. That absence just makes the Patriots more boring to watch than if there was a rival of interest.

Maybe there's an alternate timeline where Mike Shanahan is smart enough to not waste his late career opportunity coaching for Dan Snyder, and dad and baby Shanny build something worthy of challenging Belichick. The Shanahans have the right attitude to be someone's rival, whereas Andy Reid is not going to be anyone's antagonist even if he could win Super Bowls.

But in this timeline, it's just Belichick by himself, ho-hum.

Atras wrote:

The one team being dominant is a puzzle to me, though.

Which team has been caught cheating multiple times over that 'dominant' run?

Here's something that occurred to me while watching the game: if RedZone was still around, they wouldn't have cut live to the Super Bowl until halfway through the 3rd Quarter.

*Legion* wrote:

The Pats don't play a boring style of football, it's just boring to see the same guys play in every big game. It's exciting to see, you know, someone else.

What also makes them boring is no rival for Belichick. When the Bill Walsh 49ers were a dynasty, Walsh had Bill Parcells (with Belichick working for him) as a rival. Parcells thought the West Coast style was soft, Walsh thought he was too smart for everyone else.

Belichick has no peer rival. Does anyone really think Mike Tomlin is up to being that? Nope.

For sure much like Andy Reid's run in Philly.. Belichick has had almost zero competition for his run in the AFC.. just a slew of bad opponents with an occasional loss on the road. Whats historical is just how overall poor the AFC has been... most of the AFC East teams have had massive QB and Coaching turnover.

Mahomes wows the crowd with his basketball moves

The best part of the Twitter threadbare Chiefs fans trying to decide if they should be impressed or excited, or scared to death he is going to get hurt.

Personally, I feel like Mahomes gift is from being ultra competitive and playing an array of sports, which he then translates to the football field as similar circumstances arise. I think you just have to let him ball in the offseason.

Speaking of Belichick and coaching trees, Wes Welker is now the wide receivers coach of the 49ers.

*Legion* wrote:

Speaking of Belichick and coaching trees, Wes Welker is now the wide receivers coach of the 49ers.

Is he lucid enough for that? My understanding is that he left the game because he was pretty punch drunk.

Paleocon wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Speaking of Belichick and coaching trees, Wes Welker is now the wide receivers coach of the 49ers.

Is he lucid enough for that? My understanding is that he left the game because he was pretty punch drunk.

And has he recovered from getting his foot chewed off by a komodo dragon?

Paleocon wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Speaking of Belichick and coaching trees, Wes Welker is now the wide receivers coach of the 49ers.

Is he lucid enough for that? My understanding is that he left the game because he was pretty punch drunk.

Well he was an offensive assistant for the Texans the past 2 seasons. He must have done a good enough job to earn opportunities to move up to position coach, as the Packers also interviewed him for one of their spots.

Responding here to a D&D post from DSGamer because it delves more into football than the coal industry.

DSGamer wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
qaraq wrote:

My wife is from coal country in eastern KY. Her great-grandfather was a miner and, because he was numerate, helped a lot of the other miners with their paychecks when the companies routinely underpaid them. According to her, he'd be appalled if any of his descendants went back into the mines; he did that crappy job so they could do something better.

Funny, in the same NPR story I referenced above, a retired NFL player was asked if he would let his kid play football and he said something to the effect of "I played because I came from poverty. My kids come from means. Playing football for them would be a gigantic step backward.".

This is such a weird ass country.

During the Super Bowl I was a snarky asshole on this message board and on Facebook, but it's because I honestly think the death of some of America's cultural icons would be healthy.

It would be healthy if people stopped watching the Super Bowl and the NFL shriveled up.

The "Breads and Circus" function that the NFL serves currently isn't doing the job these days. Instead it's a giant overloaded spectacle of violence, head trauma and completely amoral capitalism. It would be really healthy if more people thought like him and the sport eventually died.

Maybe the future kid who finds himself in that player's shoes could grow up in a society that prized taking care of each other, providing a living wage, etc. instead of forcing the poor to literally risk their lives for the amusement of everyone else.

I agree with all of this, and it's why I openly called myself a hypocrite for this season, and probably going forward for some time. I'm not an NFL fan, I'm a Mahomes fan. For four decades of watching the NFL I wished whoever my rooting interest was (St. Louis Cardinals or KC Chiefs) could get one of THOSE QBs, the ones that everyone dreads.

And then, just as I am ready to drop football and never look back, the Chiefs get a guy that might not just be ONE of those QBs, but might be the best of any of them. And then, to make things worse, seems like the nicest and most humble superstars we've seen in sports. It's not a good enough reason, but it's all I have. I told my wife, "I'm a hypocrite." I support everything that will end the NFL, but I still can't stop watching Mahomes and the Chiefs.

I watched the Pro Bowl and skipped the Super Bowl, though. But I'm also now obsessed with the Chiefs' offseason and the what it will mean for Mahomes next season.

This is really good. Notably those last two paragraphs.

I'm with Legion on the Belichick/Brady thing. The two are definitely complementary parts, but if I had to pick one I'd go with Belichick.

Sunday's game was a prime example. On a day when Brady and the Pats offense was butt most of the day (Wade Phillips is really good at defensive, too), Belichick & Co dialed up a defensive game plan that went against tendencies (the Pats played much more zone than man Sunday), gave a look they hadn't used all season (Cover 4, bitches!), went with an unconventional front 7 (6-1 instead of the 4-3 or 3-4 every other team uses) and plugged in players into other positions (he moved a CB to S and had the LBs essentially playing DE). The Pats also blitzed like crazy, which took away the play action. (Ain't no reason to hold back if your job is to get your ass to the QB stat.)

Belichick gambled that the Rams couldn't/wouldn't adjust and that Goff couldn't figure out where to throw the ball if McVay's offense wasn't scheming guys open (because Goff can't anticipate throws like Brady and other top-shelf QBs). And he was right on both counts.

Hats off to the Pats. They don't make winning fun, but it sure is interesting to figure out how they do what they did.

Says a lot about Mahomes and Reid, who were also shut down in the first half, but figured out how to drop 31 in the second half. If they improve on defense this offseason...

I can't believe I read through the entirety of our 2010 season threads just because of a remark from today's GWJ CC podcast.

Continuing the "exactly as expected" sequence of events, Nick Foles exercised his option to void his contract, paying the Eagles back $2m as per the terms.

Foles will now become a free agent, whom the Eagles will franchise tender.

The Raiders stadium situation continues.

The 49ers are expected to exercise their territorial rights to block the Raiders from playing at whatever the hell the Giants call their stadium nowadays.

Instead, the Niners are apparently willing to share Levi's Stadium for the year.

Mark Davis has, for years, rebuked the idea of the Raiders playing at Levi's. But the options now seem to be down to swallowing his pride and playing at Levi's, or working out a deal with the city of Oakland to stay in the Coliseum for another year, a prospect which fell apart as the sides grew contentious (and litigious).

So I peaked into the NFL 2011 Pre-Draft Thread during my re-read today and couldn't help but take note of *Legion*'s OP.

*Legion* in 2011 wrote:

CHRISTIAN PONDER
* Looks like a pro top to bottom - holds ball high, great mechanics and footwork. Definite NFL arm.

*snip*

*Legion* in 2011 wrote:

JAKE LOCKER
* First two drives went 3-and-out, largely from bad run game and poor protection. Frustratingly little to judge Locker on in 1st half.

*more snipping*

*Legion* in 2011 wrote:

ANDY DALTON
* Disappointing outing
* A number of near-miss throws

The money moment:

*Legion* in 2011 wrote:

COLIN KAEPERNICK
* I want this guy
* Smart, decisive, not rattled by pressure
* Inexperience in pocket biggest downside, ran Nevada's pistol for 4 years. Lots of read options.
* WHAT AN ARM. This may be an elite NFL arm if he learns better how to use it.
* Has the legs to keep plays alive.

Well, you got him. For a while. I guess it was the NFL that didn't learn how to use his elite arm.

Is this how Shawn Andrich feels setting up the Bold Predictions podcasts every year?

Edit: It gets better!

My responses aged well.

Rat Boy wrote:

Edit: It gets better!

That was one of the worst draft classes at QB, in terms of talent versus eventual NFL production, in league history.

I think I was right about being concerned with Cam Newton's learning curve into an NFL offense. Carolina did what I consider to be one of the smartest coaching decisions in recent memory, and completely re-tailored their offense to be as close to what Cam was used to from college as possible, then re-evolved their offense from that point on forward in accordance with Cam's growth. I still think taking rookie Cam and crushing him with a West Coast playbook would have derailed his young career. Ron Rivera did so much right that Cam needed.

Couldn't you have at least gone into the draft thread where I wanted the Jags to draft Prince Amukamara or Ryan Kerrigan? I will happily stand by those!

This did make me pull up some Christian Ponder highlights:

Still like his footwork and mobility, and his smooth delivery. But man could he not read the field at the NFL level.

That whole 2010 season and 2011 offseason series of threads was an interesting snapshot of the state of the league in those days. I don't recall seeing the word "concussion" being used and no reference of CTE. You had the two sexual harassment stories involving the Jets, both during that year and in the past when Favre was QBing, but since the only egregious thing Ray Rice did back then was wear a Mexican sombrero and poncho, it was handled and talked about way differently. There was the lockout during the 2011 offseason and the 10 year deal that was reached to end it, the bulk of which we've gone through. And some of names on that draft board aside from the quarterbacks, like JJ Watt and Julio Jones, are now league staples. It almost feels like looking at a different era in the NFL, like at an epoch just before major changes occurred.

I am bummed that Ponder washed out so quickly. I really liked him at FSU and thought he would do well as a pro, even if he was drafted too high. Watching the highlights Legion posted did show issues with arm strength and decision making though... several of those passes were only caught because of great effort by receivers, and several more were thrown into double (or more) coverage.

But... he married Sam Ponder, so he had an excellent career.

Required reading: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/ra...

You're welcome

I was already all about watching Memphis with Hackenberg and Mettenberger, but I hadn't noticed that their coach was Mike Singletary. Now I'm super in.

Can not play with them! Can not win with them! Can not coach with them! Can't do it.

That link would be good top-post material for an AAF thread...

CBS at 8pm, eh? I'll see if I can give it a shot, but some of it will depend on my old man. I can already see him groaning and grumbling about rule changes designed to mitigate injuries.