[Discussion] The (likely) Depressing Road to the 2020 Election Thread

It's going to be a circus.

Will 45 get impeached or step down or challenged? All 3? MAYBE.

Will the democrats eat themselves alive and hobble literally every potential candidate before the primaries are done? PROBABLY.

Talk about that junk here.

Universal Health Care and Single Payer are also two different statements. In the near term I think the German healthcare model is more a more realistic approach then trying to completely overhaul the US into single payer. Even a Medicaid buy in, or other form of public option, would be a good way to backdoor us into single payer without massive reactionary backlash, a meltdown in the healthcare industry that accounts for something like 10% of the US economy, or both.

Even removing the f*cking stupid law that prevents Medicaid and Medicare from negotiating drug prices would help with costs.

Medicare for all as a phrase sometimes seems to me like a Rorschach tests, people read into it their preferred outcome.

ranalin wrote:

That's a nice sentiment and i agree it's possible, but again isn't a technical answer. Until we have that, a great idea is all it is.

Technical details are what's worked out in committees once you've sold everyone on the big idea.

Reaper81 wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

The stability thing is kind of a bs argument. It's an excuse not to try not a reason not to do it:

"We can't do it now, the political climate isn't stable enough!"
"We can't do it now, the political climate is stable we don't want to disrupt it!"

Like literally everytime there is a mass shooting.

Im always amused and horrified and saddened that The Onion posts its '"No way to prevent this", only country where this regularly happens' article after the highest profile incidents. Its also sad that they've had to move the bar for when they post that article, so as not to post it every f*cking day.

Maybe get those Silicon Valley kids to disrupt healthcare. So far they've invented the bus and room mates and other obvious things. Call it the sharing economy for healthcare so they can invent socialised medicine for you.

+1
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<3

Bruce wrote:

Maybe get those Silicon Valley kids to disrupt healthcare. So far they've invented the bus and room mates and other obvious things. Call it the sharing economy for healthcare so they can invent socialised medicine for you.

Our luck, they'd just reinvent health insurance where no one gets paid and there's no medical malpractice (because everyone's a contractor!)

thrawn82 wrote:
mudbunny wrote:
ranalin wrote:

While a medicare-for-all is a great idea, I've yet to see anyone that's for it have a reliable way to implement or fund it.

If only there were a country close to you that had it...

eh.

or a dozen less close that also have it.

While the funding side is not so hard to imagine (taxes and large scale bargaining power), I think there are some implementation issues that would come up.

First is that less care would be on demand and likely have waiting times (e.g. knee replacements). Second I personally believe that in a significant portion of the population in the US there is not the underlying commitment to wellness vs intervention that is needed.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Bruce wrote:

Maybe get those Silicon Valley kids to disrupt healthcare. So far they've invented the bus and room mates and other obvious things. Call it the sharing economy for healthcare so they can invent socialised medicine for you.

Our luck, they'd just reinvent health insurance where no one gets paid and there's no medical malpractice (because everyone's a contractor!)

Uber for doctors. What could go wrong?

Welcome to Healer. Estimated treatment for a heart attack is $12,000. A HealerX doctor is 3 minutes away. Select HealerShare and pay only $6,000 (estimated wait time: 12 minutes). If this is an emergency, please call 911.

And don't forget the mantra "Move fast and break things." That would work great in medicine.

Actually, was is Corey or Anthony who said that? I always get my Lewandoski criminals mixed up. It was the one who kills people with robot cars; not the one who sells out the country to the Russians.

Chairman_Mao wrote:
Welcome to Healer. Estimated treatment for a heart attack is $12,000. A HealerX doctor is 3 minutes away. Select HealerShare and pay only $6,000 (estimated wait time: 12 minutes). If this is an emergency, please call 911.

Don't be silly, you know it would be called heeLr.

Chairman_Mao wrote:
Welcome to Healer. Estimated treatment for a heart attack is $12,000. A HealerX doctor is 3 minutes away. Select HealerShare and pay only $6,000 (estimated wait time: 12 minutes). If this is an emergency, please call 911.

“We are experiencing a high frequency of requests during cold & flu season. There is an additional Surge Pricing fee of $10,000 for the next two months. Thank you for using HealR.”

She has since walked back that statement a bit.

As the furor grew, a Harris adviser on Tuesday signaled that the candidate would also be open to the more moderate health reform plans, which would preserve the industry, being floated by other congressional Democrats.
Garrcia wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:
mudbunny wrote:
ranalin wrote:

While a medicare-for-all is a great idea, I've yet to see anyone that's for it have a reliable way to implement or fund it.

If only there were a country close to you that had it...

eh.

or a dozen less close that also have it.

While the funding side is not so hard to imagine (taxes and large scale bargaining power), I think there are some implementation issues that would come up.

First is that less care would be on demand and likely have waiting times (e.g. knee replacements). Second I personally believe that in a significant portion of the population in the US there is not the underlying commitment to wellness vs intervention that is needed.

Sorry; is that target now a way to radically shift a massive part of the social and economic fabric of a nation with 0 interruptions and 100% instantaneous positive results?

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Garrcia wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:
mudbunny wrote:
ranalin wrote:

While a medicare-for-all is a great idea, I've yet to see anyone that's for it have a reliable way to implement or fund it.

If only there were a country close to you that had it...

eh.

or a dozen less close that also have it.

While the funding side is not so hard to imagine (taxes and large scale bargaining power), I think there are some implementation issues that would come up.

First is that less care would be on demand and likely have waiting times (e.g. knee replacements). Second I personally believe that in a significant portion of the population in the US there is not the underlying commitment to wellness vs intervention that is needed.

Sorry; is that target now a way to radically shift a massive part of the social and economic fabric of a nation with 0 interruptions and 100% instantaneous positive results?

Also the american on demand system isn't all it's cracked up to be. Anecdotal evidence, but I have a personal friend who is currently on an 8 month wait to see a specialist so... :shrug:

**poof** You have summoned a public health specialist. Would you like to hear about the US’s atrocious maternal and neonatal morbidity and mortality rates? Or about how they’re worse for African Americans? Would you like to learn about the decreasing life expectancy?
Or maybe you’d like to discover that the mortality rate for cervical cancer is horrendous because young women can’t afford to get screened? What about the disastrous impact of any disease on the patient and their family’s finances? Namely chronic diseases like cancers, heart failure, renal failure, etc.
Nope? No one?
**poof**

Eleima wrote:

**poof** You have summoned a public health specialist. Would you like to hear about the US’s atrocious maternal and neonatal morbidity and mortality rates? Or about how they’re worse for African Americans? Would you like to learn about the decreasing life expectancy?
Or maybe you’d like to discover that the mortality rate for cervical cancer is horrendous because young women can’t afford to get screened? What about the disastrous impact of any disease on the patient and their family’s finances? Namely chronic diseases like cancers, heart failure, renal failure, etc.
Nope? No one?
**poof**

This is the conversation I've had a billion times with my wife, who hated the NHS when we lived in England, but hasn't really had to deal with the US healthcare system without having stellar health insurance thanks to my job. So clearly the American system is "better", no matter how much I point out her privilege-blindness.

Eleima wrote:

**poof** You have summoned a public health specialist. Would you like to hear about the US’s atrocious maternal and neonatal morbidity and mortality rates? Or about how they’re worse for African Americans? Would you like to learn about the decreasing life expectancy?
Or maybe you’d like to discover that the mortality rate for cervical cancer is horrendous because young women can’t afford to get screened? What about the disastrous impact of any disease on the patient and their family’s finances? Namely chronic diseases like cancers, heart failure, renal failure, etc.
Nope? No one?
**poof**

IMAGE(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/7/74/ME3_Avina.png/revision/latest?cb=20120411222854)

Oh I’m nowhere near as polite as Avina.

An Avina hacked by a rogue AI that want to exterminate bad healthcare maybe.

Pretty sure that was a plot line in ME1!

When it comes to Medicare for All, "But how are you going to pay for it?" is the hardest question to answer because the analyses keep coming back with results like "it would save $3 trillion dollars". What do you even say at that point?

If the analysis were coming back saying "this will cost $500 billion a year" I would say, okay, then we'll pick some specific tax or other and raise it. I don't know how to raise negative three trillion dollars

https://twitter.com/mcclure111/statu...

I guess we pay for all the saved money with UBI?

Eleima wrote:

Oh I’m nowhere near as polite as Avina.

Bad Janet it is then!
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)

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Garrcia wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:
mudbunny wrote:
ranalin wrote:

While a medicare-for-all is a great idea, I've yet to see anyone that's for it have a reliable way to implement or fund it.

If only there were a country close to you that had it...

eh.

or a dozen less close that also have it.

While the funding side is not so hard to imagine (taxes and large scale bargaining power), I think there are some implementation issues that would come up.

First is that less care would be on demand and likely have waiting times (e.g. knee replacements). Second I personally believe that in a significant portion of the population in the US there is not the underlying commitment to wellness vs intervention that is needed.

Sorry; is that target now a way to radically shift a massive part of the social and economic fabric of a nation with 0 interruptions and 100% instantaneous positive results?

I do not fully understand your question.

Bernie Sanders Proposes 77 Percent Estate Tax For Billionaires

according to Wikipedia, Bernie Sanders is 77 years old.

: D

cheeze_pavilion wrote:

Bernie Sanders Proposes 77 Percent Estate Tax For Billionaires

according to Wikipedia, Bernie Sanders is 77 years old.

: D

"every billionaire is a policy failure"

It wasn't chosen because of his age, that's what it used to be from 1941-1976.

Stengah wrote:

It wasn't chosen because of his age, that's what it used to be from 1941-1976.

Coincidentally, Bernie's first 35 years

Half-Life 3 confirmed?

Stengah wrote:

It wasn't chosen because of his age, that's what it used to be from 1941-1976.

Sure, that's in the article. I just think it's funny as an implied motivation: the rate is my age, so every time you don't elect me, it goes up next campaign!

And I doubt we’d even be talking about it without AOC and the right’s obsession with her.

oilypenguin wrote:

And I doubt we’d even be talking about it without AOC and the right’s obsession with her.

I think so as well, she seems to be the one that started that conversation, and the right luckily didn't do themselves any favors by constantly putting her in the spotlight.

Kamala seems to be doing well so far in liberal circles, but I haven't seen my biggest issue with her addressed so far, her staunch support of Israel. I know it's (for some dumb reason) the norm of the democratic party, but people like Ilhan Omar reminded me that it doesn't have to be that way. Going to bat for an apartheid state as hard as Harris does really shouldn't be acceptable in this day and age.