The GWJ JRPG Club - Q1 2019 - Persona 5!

LastSurprise wrote:

I also wanted to check in on what we've been doing here. The conversation has been flowing pretty well, but I remember that someone had suggested maybe posing questions to spur discussion, like a book club. Do you all think that would be helpful? Any suggestions for things you would like to see in these discussion threads?

I'd say touching upon certain key plot notes from what we should all have experienced of the plot so far, asking about how participants feel about certain game mechanics - both any new to Persona as a series or staples thereof - and discussing themes that have been focused on in the plot, though this last seems to have come naturally already, it would still be good to have a guided conversation that includes it.

My two cents.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Malkroth wrote:

Teddy was kind of endearing for a short time, but I remember after having played to September in the original version all I wanted to do in Golden was kill Teddy permanently. I could not stand his personality at all or that the characters let him get away with it

I didn't make it far enough in Persona 4 to get much experience with Teddy, but in Persona Q he's basically a one note character, and that note is aggressive sexual harassment of every girl in sight. I hate him.

That's pretty much P4 too.

Anything that might be too offensive for one of the guys to say they let the bear say instead. Doesn't make it any better.

I'm in, doing my best to squeeze in some time here and there. Finished the second palace a couple of days ago. I'm not sure how much I'll participate in the thread though because, early on, I realised that when it comes to Persona, I'm adverse to anything slightly spoilerish. Even something like the best way to increase x stat is to do y, or make sure you always do something on Mondays, or progress this social link as soon as possible. Outside of checking online for the classroom questions I can't answer, a large part of the fun of the game for me is working all that stuff out for myself. And I don't care if my first play through isn't min-maxed, there's always NG+ for that if I so desire. Well, I might check in from time to time. And I'm happy to have some motivation to drive me to play the game. 3 months will be tough but I think 6 months will be doable.

I'm at Palace 4, so think I'm good with progress.

BTW, I just wanted to pause and say thank you for this thread and direction. As much as I love Persona 5, I do have the pattern these days of game hoping (bothers me).

This club has helped me by given me a battle plan to finish the game that is loose enough to fit into a busy person's schedule.

I know there's NG+ and all that, but just the thought of finishing the story and having stories to tell by April is exciting.

Have fun. I'll say my first run through save file finished the game at 103hours. It didn't feel like a drag though and some of that was late game grinding. Not necessary, but sometimes I like feeling like liquid death near end game.

I listened to the soundtrack for Persona 3 this week and... I have to say, I like it better than 5, for some reason, but I do think the more jazzy soundtrack fits 5 perfectly. For whatever reason, I associate jazz with darker places like the type of jazz bars we always see in movies, and this fits the theme of thieves. It loses something when listened to out of context though. So does the P3 soundtrack, of course, but I found it more enjoyable regardless.

Anyway, back to the game, I made some progress this week, and I have started the third palace, and have completed all the requests that have been unlocked so far. The encounters in the third palace feel much harder than those of the second, though, and I died at one of the smaller bosses. Luckily, the game let me restart at the beginning of the battle and prevented me from getting angry this time (since I had forgotten to save for a solid hour).

A tip I wish I knew early on is that mini bosses don't always follow rules of weaknesses. So make sure to keep personas with buffs, debuffs, and some status effects for those battles

brokenclavicle wrote:
LastSurprise wrote:

I also wanted to check in on what we've been doing here. The conversation has been flowing pretty well, but I remember that someone had suggested maybe posing questions to spur discussion, like a book club. Do you all think that would be helpful? Any suggestions for things you would like to see in these discussion threads?

I'd say touching upon certain key plot notes from what we should all have experienced of the plot so far, asking about how participants feel about certain game mechanics - both any new to Persona as a series or staples thereof - and discussing themes that have been focused on in the plot, though this last seems to have come naturally already, it would still be good to have a guided conversation that includes it.

My two cents.

All good ideas, thanks! To start with, how is everybody enjoying the battle system in Persona 5? I'm especially curious to hear impressions of people who are new to Shin Megami Tensei games, though there are some differences between games under that umbrella.

Persona 5 was the second SMT game I played, after completing Digital Devil Saga from my backlog a year or two prior. Having experience with DDS definitely helped me adjust to P5.

Also, for anyone finding that their Phantom Thieves need more money: starting around the time of the third palace, Fortune can help with this. It may be a bit difficult to connect with her right away, though. Spoilers for some light details and some explanations for how Fortune's abilities work (they're not necessarily intuitive).

Spoiler:

You can only hang out with Fortune during the evenings, but after you establish a relationship with her, you can visit her during the afternoon to take advantage of her abilities. Doing so does not consume time. And, if you're going to see her, you should do so in the afternoon: several of her abilities only last for a single day.

Her Rank 3 power doubles the amount of money that you earn when you win with an All-Out Attack. Activating this for any given day costs 5,000 Yen, but this cost is well worth it if you plan to visit a palace or Mementos. This also pairs well with one of Star's high-level powers.

Even stating on a relationship with Fortune costs a lot of time and money, though. You'll need to spend four chunks of time (I think) to get the relationship started. One of those chunks included a whopping 100,000 Yen downpayment; another involves a Mementos request. It can definitely be hard to find the time or money for this before you go after your third target.

LastSurprise wrote:

To start with, how is everybody enjoying the battle system in Persona 5? I'm especially curious to hear impressions of people who are new to Shin Megami Tensei games, though there are some differences between games under that umbrella.

Well they say you never forget your first, so I wouldn't mind one bit if Atlus made more SMT games with the tactical map gameplay of Devil Survivor.

On the other hand, I can't say I mastered the system by playing Devil Survivor; that game frustrated me so often that I would put it down for years at a time. It took Persona 5 to drive home the point that, no I *really* need to pay attention to elemental strengths and weaknesses.

I may have overcompensated in the other direction in Persona 5. I spent a lot of hours in the Velvet Room, plotting the perfect fusion while maintaining full-spectrum elemental attack capabilities.

LastSurprise wrote:
Spoiler:

Doing so does not consume time.

Wow, really!?

Spoiler:

In my first playthrough, I assumed that ability would take time and that there was no way it could be worth it, so I guess I never even tried it out.

No worries, though. Sun gave me the tools to wring maximum profit out of every trip to the Metaverse. Six words: "You can do better than that."

Regarding combat, I'm used to ice, fire, wind, elec, light, dark, gun, physical, almighty but what's with all these other elements/weaknesses we have to worry about? Nuclear, psi, ...? Seems a bit much.

Agathos wrote:
LastSurprise wrote:

To start with, how is everybody enjoying the battle system in Persona 5? I'm especially curious to hear impressions of people who are new to Shin Megami Tensei games, though there are some differences between games under that umbrella.

Well they say you never forget your first, so I wouldn't mind one bit if Atlus made more SMT games with the tactical map gameplay of Devil Survivor.

On the other hand, I can't say I mastered the system by playing Devil Survivor; that game frustrated me so often that I would put it down for years at a time. It took Persona 5 to drive home the point that, no I *really* need to pay attention to elemental strengths and weaknesses.

I may have overcompensated in the other direction in Persona 5. I spent a lot of hours in the Velvet Room, plotting the perfect fusion while maintaining full-spectrum elemental attack capabilities.

Well, you could try the Persona Q games now.

Mr GT Chris wrote:

Regarding combat, I'm used to ice, fire, wind, elec, light, dark, gun, physical, almighty but what's with all these other elements/weaknesses we have to worry about? Nuclear, psi, ...? Seems a bit much.

Yeah, I didn't like that change. I did like a lot of the other changes, like baton pass, though. If they wanted to add more weaknesses, I wish they'd gone in the direction of SMT IV and counted status abnormalities as weaknesses, instead.

I also thought that adding nuclear and psi was a bit excessive, bringing the total to 10 types of damage (or 11 with almighty). But it didn't bother me too much, as it was pretty easy to see any given enemy's weakness.

I was thinking more of a comparison between P5 (or the SMT system) and other JRPGs that we've played, though. No surprise here, but I liked almost everything about P5's battle system, and it became one of my favorites. Here are some reasons why, in no particular order:

  • I really like how the game implemented ambushes. Enemies in SMT games are rarely ever pushovers, and basic encounters still require some degree of strategy. To me, the combination of this, with ambushes, heightened the feeling of being a thief, sneaking through a target location, needing to use stealth and smarts against enemies who could otherwise overpower the party.
  • I liked that the game mapped battle actions to particular keys, and also made it very easy -- once you had discovered them -- to see enemy weaknesses at a glance. These two things, together with the animation, made battles feel quick and responsive.
  • As an upgrade over SMT (or at least SMT IV), I love that you can see a shadow's personality and that negotiation is not just about random guesses. That always rubbed me the wrong way.
  • I also much prefer baton passes over extra "press" turns (as in Digital Devil Saga and SMT IV) and especially prefer it over "smirk" (SMT IV), which always struck me as a bit of a BS status effect. Not only do baton passes feel more strategic, but they fit in with the theme of building relationships.

I was thinking about this and, generally, what I like in JRPG battle systems. I think P5 checks a lot of my boxes. I generally prefer something to be either fully turn-based, or fully action-based; I'm ok with systems like ATB or real-time-with-pause, but they're not my favorite. I like the system to be quick, I like to be able to tell most monster weaknesses pretty clearly, and I like for their to be a reason to engage with random encounters just a little bit more than mashing "fight." Before P5, one of my favorite battle systems was in FF X. I liked how quickly I could sub characters in and out, animations were fast, battles passed quickly, and overkill bonuses gave me just enough incentive to be strategic.

I was very critical of the game at first, but I think I'm hooked now, and I am having problems putting the controller down (which explains why I only play this on weekends).

Finally made it past the third palace (the boss was surprisingly easier than the second palace's). I really like the design of the

Spoiler:

vault

area, and the little algebra puzzles. (Funnily enough, it reminded me a lot of the first God of War game, where a significant amount of time is spent aligning rotating rooms.) I think I only made three trips to the third palace (excluding the initial, mandatory visit).

I've found a good number of social looks, and I'm slowly raising my charms so that I can get started with the

Spoiler:

shogi girl in the church,

and also trying to initiate the social link with the

Spoiler:

politician (I think he only needs to see me work one more time before I can get started).

Speaking of jobs: Good thing this is a videogame, because if you're the manager of a restaurant, have only one employee for evening shifts, and he just shows up when he wants to, your restaurant would be out of business in days in real life.

I'm still fusing Personas willy-nilly, and so far it has worked out. Not great, but I can make do. (Compendium is at 25% I believe).

Quick question: Will confidants get annoyed with me if I ignore them? I know that in P3, a social link could be broken (I never got far enough into that game for this to happen, and I have no idea how if this happens because the player gives wrong answers to questions or if it's because you ignore them), is this mechanic still present in 5?

Hey, glad to hear you're really getting into it! It sounds like we're at around the same part of the game: I also just finished with the third palace, though I haven't yet met the confidant you reference. And, confidants will not get annoyed with you if you ignore them. As far as I know, there's no way to break social links or see a relationship regress, with one small exception (and this is not much of a spoiler):

Spoiler:

If you try to date multiple people, there will eventually be consequences.

And a comment on the new confidant you mention:

Spoiler:

Hifumi was my Joker's love interest, the first time through. When we get far enough I think it'll be interesting to hear who people dated (if they dated anyone) and why.

LastSurprise wrote:
Spoiler:

Hifumi was my Joker's love interest, the first time through. When we get far enough I think it'll be interesting to hear who people dated (if they dated anyone) and why.

Spoiler:

If it's possible to date the teacher, she's my choice, mostly because of how creepy it would me. Don't judge me!

bobbywatson wrote:
Spoiler:

If it's possible to date the teacher, she's my choice, mostly because of how creepy it would me. Don't judge me!

Never apologize for this There's good bonuses for this one anyway - use that as an excuse if you need to have one.

Also, fusing persona's early is...ok. It helps when you need something specific later, but overall not a huge deal. I'd say make sure you are re-registering your stronger personas. So...if you happened to have one that was like lvl 12 when you got it, and you happened to use it a lot and got it up to 30+, reregister it so you don't feel bad if you have to fuse it to get something else.

Also, for those who like fusions: there is a social link that adds a lot of bonuses to fusions and later includes fusing over your level for a cost. If you play like I did and only upgrade weapons/armor when you notice a bit of a struggle in battles and only for characters you use, you'll have a ton of money later on - but not unlimited. There are a couple money "tricks" built into the game if you get desperate, but you really won't need them until late game and it's almost exclusively used for fusing extremely high level personas. I was fusing stuff up to lvl 99 towards the end because they start off at 70 I think when you max a social link.

Another tip for those who want to fuse a lot, some of the best fusion personas are stupidly rare, and usually only appear if you hit one of the destructible objects in the palaces (and in momentos after you clear their palace). I think there's one or two per palace and they are specific to those palaces. Chances increase on rainy days and with the Treasure Trap item. When used for fusing, you get super strong personas with crazy abilities that normally wouldn't show up for them - which will come into play for that social link I mentioned earlier (though I don't think it's required, just speeds up the process).

Anyway, for those who think the game feels easier as you progress, it's because you are learning and the Persona will do the thing that it does and throw a difficulty curveball. It's not as annoying as the difficulty check in P4G, but again, don't grind until you NEED to (and honestly it's like one time and you may not even need to do it). Get those social links up because they are more useful than being overleveled for a dungeon/palace.

Depends how you define grind. I pretty much grind as a habit in any game that allows it. For Persona games, I try to minimise the number of runs to complete a palace/dungeon (one if possible) but I don't usually leave SP on the table. So, once I've done everything I need to do on a run, then I'll catch any Persona I haven't caught yet, build up my surplus cash and level up the MC as much as reasonably possible. This allows me to fuse as high as possible Persona for my next run as well as having plenty of excess cash for any opportunities to increase attributes or social links along the way. I think this approach actually speeds up my social link and attribute progress in the long run along with allowing me to always complete the following palace in the fewest amount of runs.

At the start of the game, buying SP replenishing drinks from vending machines and using those free DLC items can also give you an edge.

I meant grind as in - forced battling due to difficulty walls. P5 doesn't really have those since there's so many opportunities to battle during each palace. Mementos is really the only "grind" area. I wouldn't grind the palaces since you are most likely at the palace level already. Getting all the available personas isn't really "grinding" either since it mostly happens naturally anyway (with the exception of the Treasure demons). Basically, you can have fun without the feeling of "taking extra time" to do a bunch of battles.

Also, the game speeds up in mementos when you are a certain amount of levels above enemies. They will start to run away and a lot of time ambushes auto-capture/kills them so you skip the battles (which net you so little xp/money anyway).

Very good balance. Easily 80+ hours without time wasted doing forced grinding or sidequests just to keep up with enemies.

I'd also define grind as hanging around in palaces beyond completing the story requirements, which is basically what I do. I find the xp/money rewards outpace those in Mementos, at least up to the 4th palace.

Finally got around to getting through the last bit of the second palace. I still have a handful of days left in May, so I'll get through those this week and make it to the third palace, time willing.

Loved the mechanics of the last two forays into the palace; visually striking and stimulating.

Spoiler:

That mention from Madarame about another intruder - one with a black mask - did pique my interest. Looking forward to future morsels of info on that.

Also, found a treasure demon - non-scripted - and was unable to get at its weakness. Since those are random in where they appear, I hope any future showings from them will see me better rounded with Personas and their abilities.

For your spoiler, that's how they'll dish out that info for most of the game but in more meaningful ways as you get further along. As for the treasure demons...find the name, hit up google, and use that for the weakness. They all have different weaknesses and some of them don't have any at all so by the time you figure it out...well, you already saw the result. There are a couple weapons and attacks that have critical percentages. You'll need that at some point to help...but those things come later so no rush to buy those or farm personas.

Example:

IMAGE(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/8Pq9UmFdnmLe_Edg8hA6w0-cG20=/0x0:1920x1080/920x613/filters:focal(807x387:1113x693):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/54778383/November_Screenshot_2017_05_08_16_18_55.0.png)

As you can see, very good for fusing as not only does it give a huge xp/level boost, it has great moves for fusion.

KozmoOchez wrote:

For your spoiler, that's how they'll dish out that info for most of the game but in more meaningful ways as you get further along. As for the treasure demons...find the name, hit up google, and use that for the weakness. They all have different weaknesses and some of them don't have any at all so by the time you figure it out...well, you already saw the result. There are a couple weapons and attacks that have critical percentages. You'll need that at some point to help...but those things come later so no rush to buy those or farm personas.

Example:

IMAGE(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/8Pq9UmFdnmLe_Edg8hA6w0-cG20=/0x0:1920x1080/920x613/filters:focal(807x387:1113x693):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/54778383/November_Screenshot_2017_05_08_16_18_55.0.png)

As you can see, very good for fusing as not only does it give a huge xp/level boost, it has great moves for fusion.

Thanks for that link! Should be useful.

I wasn't going to go back into Mementos before the 4th palace but I suddenly had 4 targets on my plate so thought may as well. Somehow these suicidal treasure demons keep jumping me every 3-4 encounters. I'll take the xp/cash I guess!

Mr GT Chris wrote:

I wasn't going to go back into Mementos before the 4th palace but I suddenly had 4 targets on my plate so thought may as well. Somehow these suicidal treasure demons keep jumping me every 3-4 encounters. I'll take the xp/cash I guess!

Probably a rainy day you chose.

Heatwave actually, but it didn't say anything about treasures.

Over the weekend and during some sick days earlier this week, I made it to the fourth palace! I'm now inside the Metaverse, ready to begin my infiltration, after doing all the necessary story stuff beforehand.

I really loved this one during my first playthrough, and I'm excited to see it again. Spoilers about the lead-up to Palace 4:

Spoiler:

The story for Futaba's Pyramid gripped me in a different way than any of the prior palaces. With the others, I felt the characters' nerves about waiting, and their desire to get the job done, but here -- with a "target" who wanted us to steal her heart, and who was dealing with crippling depression about the loss of her mother, I just wanted to get in there as quickly as possible and help her. The story gave me (the player) a sense of urgency, and a feeling that "this is what Joker would do," and I loved it for that.

LastSurprise wrote:

Over the weekend and during some sick days earlier this week, I made it to the fourth palace!

I had to take 1.5 sick days this week, but I used them to finish Super Metroid And now it's time to go back to P5!