I downloaded Below when it released, but based on everything I'd heard about it, decided it didn't sound like a game for me. But when I tried to play Fallout 76 yesterday only to discover the servers were down, I figured I'd give Below a try during the server downtime, basically to cross it off my list. I enjoyed it somewhat more than I expected to!
Having heard many people complain about the overlong intro of watching a ship endlessly and distantly sailing towards shore, I was happy to see you can just skip the intro cutscene, so I did that. Even still, I nearly gave up after the first 10 minutes as I couldn't figure out anything to do other than picking up a handful of arrows. I decided that, before I deleted the game, I should see about getting its easiest achievements, so I looked up the most completed achievement (for getting a torch) and thankfully, following the instructions to do that let me actually start the game in earnest after wandering around slowly and aimlessly. Once I got into the game proper and saw little campfires to light and areas to explore and enemies to kill, it was actually interesting! I kept playing longer than expected, and although I was irritated that I had to randomly hit buttons to figure out I had a sword I could swing, and didn't really know what resources I was picking up, and couldn't understand whether/how the crafting system worked. Still, I was happy making my way down and intended to figure this stuff out as I went. Then, I died for no apparent reason. I then realized it must have been thirst or cold or hunger, as I believe I recall that those are systems in this game, but I have no idea which did me in or how to correct them.
I'm unsure how much this has set me off of my original classification of this as Not For Me. I think if this game had even the most basic tutorial and instructions, I would be very interested. As it stands, I'm probably not going to come back to this any time soon, unless they make some major updates.
My favorite aspects of Souls-like games are exploration and discovery. This usually comes from traveling to a variety of zones with visually diverse environments, poking around for secrets that inform me about the world or give me new options for diversifying my play style, and facing new enemy types that make me reconsider my approach to combat. Ashen has very little of those, and I didn't find what it offers in return to be a satisfying substitute.
Interestingly, I'd also say that exploration and discovery are my favorite aspects of a Souls-like game, and I'm nodding along with what you wrote until I get to "or give me new options for diversifying my play style". I like finding all the paths and items in the Souls games, and I like figuring out how to get all the items, but I don't typically care all that much about what I find, specifically. The stats system in the Souls games is so restrictive that interesting weapons I find are largely vendor trash, anyway, because by the time I find them, I've already committed to a character build and invested significantly in a weapon to match it.
So in that way, I've found poking around the world of Ashen and teasing out all its secrets to be at least as satisfying as Dark Souls (but not Bloodborne, which is still the best of the genre, in my opinion). I can totally see how Ashen would be disappointing for you based on what you wrote, though. 
I beat Below a while ago. I liked it a lot, but I only recommend it with major caveats.
You link to a map in that post. I thought Below was a roguelike. How do you have a map of a roguelike?
The stats system in the Souls games is so restrictive that interesting weapons I find are largely vendor trash, anyway, because by the time I find them, I've already committed to a character build and invested significantly in a weapon to match it.
But in Souls games, there have always been a variety of weapons to choose between within those stat archetypes. In Dark Souls, going with an agility build gives you access to daggers, straight swords, piercing swords, katanas, spears, bows, whips, and claws, all of which have different move sets.
Bloodborne has the fewest weapon options within specific archetypes (though Bloodborne weapons are far more interesting due to transformation), but I still used three drastically different weapons with a strength build. I split my time pretty evenly between the axe in the early game, Ludwig's Holy Blade in the mid game, and the Kirkhammer for the end. You commit to an archetype early on, but your actual weapon choices can be quite diverse until you reach the last 25% of the game when end game upgrade materials become sparse.
There are plenty of people that pick one archetype and one weapon and stick to that for the entire game, but that has never been me.
Side note: This has always been one of my biggest complaints about the Souls series. I wish there was an easier way to get end game upgrade materials so you could more easily switch weapons.
Dyni wrote:I beat Below a while ago. I liked it a lot, but I only recommend it with major caveats.
You link to a map in that post. I thought Below was a roguelike. How do you have a map of a roguelike?
It's more of a dungeon crawler with roguelike elements. There are randomized elements, but much of the game is bespoke, I'd say at least half. It's one of the things I really like about the game, but it's a little awkward to describe. I'll just give an example with a single floor (you might need to enlarge to see).
This a permutation of the 3rd floor map. All of the diamond rooms are randomized. Enemies, traps, items, entrances, and terrain change every time you die. The dotted line coming from the top right diamond is a treasure room. This will always be in the top right diamond. The dotted line coming from the bottom right diamond is the exit to the 4th floor. This will always be in the bottom right diamond. The circle room in the middle is a store, and the circle to the left is a giant open beach space with a bonfire, food, water, supplies, and shortcuts to new areas. These are never randomized and always in these exact locations.
Most floors are like this. The majority of the floor is randomized, but there are landmarks that stay in the same general area, so it's relatively easy to become familiar with an area. You just can't rush through because enemy and trap locations change every time. There are also floors to transition you between the major randomized zones that are never randomized. So floors 5-8 are the necropolis, but the end of the necropolis leads to a gigantic temple that is not randomized (go to 1:08:50 in this video if you want to see it). It has a shortcut to the surface, a new store, a bonfire, and an elevator to the floor below.
I'm not sure if that makes sense without having played it, but it's pretty cool once you figure it out. It doesn't work quite like anything else I've played.
Thanks for the info on Below, Dyni. I'll give it another spin. I dropped it pretty much immediately at launch when I read that it was a roguelike.
Meanwhile, I finally hit my first real point of frustration-slash-difficulty-spike with Ashen: the second major dungeon, The Seat of the Matriarch. I got stuck there for hours.
For those of you who haven't played Ashen, it has a pretty common mechanic where your character's left hand can be used to hold either a shield or a lantern or used for a two-handed weapon. However, unlike a lot of games that use a mechanic like this, Ashen has long, difficult sections of the game where you must have your lantern equipped. These are the dungeons.
What made Seat of the Matriarch so challenging is that it's a fairly lengthy dungeon filled with enemies that would be tough with a shield or two-handed weapon but become absolutely brutal with just a lantern. There are lots of ambushes, a few unexpected new enemy types, and ridiculously tight spaces, complete with ledges to fall off. Even with a human co-op partner, it's really tough.
Which leads me to what's maybe my biggest gripe about Ashen: I have no idea how it decides when to let you wait for your partner to revive you and when it just leaves you dead. I had multiple runs where either I died or my human partner died, and one should have been able to revive the other, but the game just kicked us. The frustration there is that if your partner dies in a dungeon, you don't get a new one, making an already challenging sequence even harder.
That said, I got through the dungeon ultimately, and it was capped off with a neat boss fight and area. I unlocked a new traversal mechanic that's opened up possibilities even in areas I've already been through, and I finally got the last crafting specialists in my camp, so I can start running their quest lines and upgrading some of my stuff that I couldn't upgrade before (like my bleeping lantern!)
Microsoft is teasing "a game a lot of you have been asking for" on Game Pass tomorrow. I'm going to put my money on it being something really underwhelming.
tetris!
The Game Pass Instagram account has a list of games to be announced in February with all but the first letters blacked out. I haven't cracked the code but I suspect anyone who is interested could make some very good guesses...
The Game Pass Instagram account has a list of games to be announced in February with all but the first letters blacked out. I haven't cracked the code but I suspect anyone who is interested could make some very good guesses...
Random guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow's release is Cuphead.
Haha, I hadn't seen that update. So I guess we don't know then! It is kind of odd for them to say "haha nice try, everyone who managed to figure out all the answers last time!"...like, isn't that the point of them making posts like that? If they don't want people to have clues to guess it, they don't need to make a post like that!
Meanwhile, I finally hit my first real point of frustration-slash-difficulty-spike with Ashen: the second major dungeon, The Seat of the Matriarch. I got stuck there for hours.
Yup 
, that's the one, for all of the same reasons you just mentioned. Lantern required, no co-op partner respawn once they die, unreliable revive mechanics, and a really long path before you reach a new bonfire. Even worse, my AI companion would get stuck on the stairs and despawn right before the grid of death (I'm sure you know the one by now) about half the time, so I had to oh so carefully pull one platform at a time and pray that I could deal with the crawling undead enemies before getting smooshed by the big guy. It also took me several hours to get through that dungeon.
It felt like another one of those spikes was coming in the third (and I assume final) dungeon, but I only tried it twice before putting the game down, so I'm not sure if it's quite as steep.
I eventually stopped pulling the grid of death at all and just fought the two guys in the middle. If you pulled them back to the stairs, you could avoid aggroing anyone on the platforms. My main pain point was just a bit past that when you get pinched between a couple undead crawlers and one of those jumping wraiths. I'd die to the enemies or roll off a ledge trying to avoid them.
I'll admit that if the last dungeon is like this, I'm not looking forward to it.
I'll go with Titanfall 2.
I've reached the final zone in Ashen (but not the final dungeon) and some of the cracks are unfortunately starting to show. Don't tell Dyni, but he was right about some things. 
I have scads of money, but nothing to spend it on. I have scads of crafting supplies, but not the one (literally one count of one type) item I need. Every skeleton I find anymore just gives me more money or more materials I already have in abundance.
I could use those resources to level up other weapons, but I don't. Partly this is my fault: in just about every game, I pick a weapon early and stick to it. I've finished Bloodborne three times, and every time was with a starter weapon. I played Dead Space with just the plasma cutter before I even noticed there was an achievement for doing that. I only ever use a shotgun in Doom.
And yet, this is partly the game's fault. It hasn't done enough to convince me that its smorgasbord of axes and clubs are meaningfully different from one another. I could experiment, but why? Likewise, I know full well that putting resources into my two-handed weapon is for naught, because the dungeons force you to use a one-hander.
I won't go into the potions and talismans and such you can buy, but suffice to say that I've either found them underwhelming (a 2% stamina boost? Be still my beating heart) or to have punitive downsides (you do extra damage in the dark, but not if you're using a lantern—what? Do you fight blind?)
That said, I love the aesthetics of the final area. It's not at all what I expected it to be, and I'm happy to explore it. But I feel like you could make a great case study about balance out of this game.
Shadow of the Tomb Raider (that's the newest one) will be added on the 7th.
Also coming soon:
- The Walking Dead, Season One
- Pumped BMX Pro
- Batman Return to Arkham
- De Blob
And of course Crackdown 3.
Shadow of the Tomb Raider? That feels like Square got it to Game Pass very quickly. I'm now betting that Just Cause 4 makes it to the service by the end of the year.
Yeah, it just came out in September. Four months!
I've reached the final zone in Ashen (but not the final dungeon) and some of the cracks are unfortunately starting to show. Don't tell Dyni, but he was right about some things. ;)
Careful Clock. You might have just given me a new sig
I agree with all the other issues you mentioned. Almost all of the perks and potions were inconsequential or had weird trade offs. I think the only potion I ever used was the one that slowly refilled your health over time, but even that one got me in trouble a couple times because I forgot that using other healing items while it was active damaged you.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the final dungeon and beyond if you push through. I'm curious if it does spike in difficulty as severely as the second dungeon. I will probably just look up the ending on YouTube at this point.
I could use those resources to level up other weapons, but I don't. Partly this is my fault: in just about every game, I pick a weapon early and stick to it. I've finished Bloodborne three times, and every time was with a starter weapon. I played Dead Space with just the plasma cutter before I even noticed there was an achievement for doing that. I only ever use a shotgun in Doom.
Yeah, wow. You and I are the complete polar opposites in this regard I try everything at least once.
I'm guessing one of the things you liked about Prey was the ability to recycle ammo from one weapon and turn it into ammo for another. I'm not sure if other games have done that, but I thought that was really smart.
Oooooh, Shadow of the Tomb Raider. That is a lovely addition.
I'm guessing one of the things you liked about Prey was the ability to recycle ammo from one weapon and turn it into ammo for another. I'm not sure if other games have done that, but I thought that was really smart.
Yep! Loved it.
Oooooh, Shadow of the Tomb Raider. That is a lovely addition.
I almost bought Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Arkham Returns a week or two ago. Really happy to see them both pop up here.
Those are some pretty great games. They are really knocking it out of the park with Gamepass.
I am also excited about Operencia: The Stolen Sun which looks to be pretty interesting rpg like wizadry.
Those are some pretty great games. They are really knocking it out of the park with Gamepass.
I am also excited about Operencia: The Stolen Sun which looks to be pretty interesting rpg like wizadry.
Operencia looks really interesting. Tile based RPGs were my favorite growing up, but I haven't been able to get into one in years.
For those of you waiting for Crackdown 3, the original Crackdown is now available to download for free. No Xbox Pass or Xbox Live needed.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the final dungeon and beyond if you push through. I'm curious if it does spike in difficulty as severely as the second dungeon. I will probably just look up the ending on YouTube at this point.
Looking at your achievements, I'm now past where you left off.
Surprise! The Palace of Lathyrus isn't the final dungeon. There's another small zone after that and then another dungeon.
As far as the design of the Palace goes, it was significantly better and easier than the Seat of the Matriarch. It alternates between light and dark areas, but it also frequently gives you multiple paths through an area: one dark, and one lit but with tougher enemies. There also aren't many ambushes, the spaces are larger, and there aren't any ledges of death. It's still a large and challenging area, but it's not nearly so bad.
So far, the Seat of the Matriarch is the hardest part of the game and the biggest difficulty spike.
I wonder who gets the money for TWD Season One now, and on what basis they get paid. Has anyone been reported as having bought Telltale's assets yet? Telltale games generally would be a good addition to Game Pass. I'm reluctant to buy their games at this point, not wanting to reward the corporate overlords who screwed over their employees, but I'm not sure if the same reasoning applies to Game Pass, not knowing how compensation for that works. A moot point for me since I don't have interest in replaying TWD S1, but if they hard the third or final seasons available, or other Telltale games I never got around to, I'd have to think about it.
Dyni wrote:I'd like to hear your thoughts on the final dungeon and beyond if you push through. I'm curious if it does spike in difficulty as severely as the second dungeon. I will probably just look up the ending on YouTube at this point.
So far, the Seat of the Matriarch is the hardest part of the game and the biggest difficulty spike.
Thanks for the update. It's good to hear that the last areas aren't so punishing.
I finished it up tonight, and I stand by my last post. It's a shame that the Seat of the Matriarch is so brutal, because it's weirdly one of my favorite parts of the game for the creepy, oppressive atmosphere. It just gets old by attempt number ten.
Also, no way am I getting that last achievement in Ashen for playing through on hard. Nope, nope, nope.
(Triple post! Yes!)
Below is surprisingly engrossing after an initial hump where nothing makes a lick of sense. Like Hyper Light Drifter, it's sort of the nadir of modern app design where everything is an inscrutable little icon that could be crucial or trivial, you can never tell which. But once you start to figure all of that out and play with it a bit, the game has a mood that it just hits beautifully.
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