Star Wars: The Mandalorian

The BBC is currently showing all of the rebooted Battlestar Galactic - in which Katee Sackhoff is fantastic - so this is a timely bonus for UK sci-fi fans. Her genuine enthusiasm is wonderful to see and her anecdotes are great.

I am so envious of everyone who grew up a Star Wars fan, and has had the opportunity to become part of the canonical films and tv shows. It must be the very definition of a childhood dream come true. Perhaps it's not yet too late for me...

Also, maybe it's a Zoom/Teams thing, but I would not have recognised her from that interview as the woman who played Starbuck and Bo-Katan.

detroit20 wrote:

The BBC is currently showing all of the rebooted Battlestar Galactic - in which Katee Sackhoff is fantastic - so this is a timely bonus for UK sci-fi fans. Her genuine enthusiasm is wonderful to see and her anecdotes are great.

I am so envious of everyone who grew up a Star Wars fan, and has had the opportunity to become part of the canonical films and tv shows. It must be the definition of a childhood dream come true.

Also, maybe it's a Zoom/Teams thing, but I would not have recognised her from that interview as the woman who played Starbuck and Bo-Katan.

What about Vic?

IMAGE(https://d24v5oonnj2ncn.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/10222327/Longmire-Season-5-Netflix-1.jpg)

Filoni doesn't even take Star Wars fans into account when crafting his stories, and given how well that has worked out for him, it seems unlikely that he'd suddenly start taking non-Star Wars fans's opinions into account on Disney Plus's flagship Star Wars show. It wouldn't be growth for him to suddenly decide to change his approach to storytelling.

If this show is supposed to be a jumping on point (and I agree it is), containing references to the previous shows seems like a great way to get newcomers to want to check out those shows (all of which are conveniently also on Disney+). So far they've not done anything that demands people do so. You don't even have to have seen the original movies to get the gist of what is going on.

Handwringing about how non-Star Wars fans might not get the references seems like the first step to focus grouping the show to death. It doesn't need to apologize for being a Star Wars show.

I would hazard to guess that the number of people who could fairly be described as "Star Wars fans" who have NOT watched any significant amount of the Clone Wars cartoons probably outnumber those who have.

It's possible to build your fanservice in such a way that it's not disruptive to those who aren't the hardest-core of hardcore fans. That's not focus-grouping, that's good writing. That's empathizing with your audience.

Largely the show HAS been good about it, but I would not characterize pointing out those instances where it hasn't-- where the uninitiated wind up feeling excluded and confused-- as "hand-wringing."

This thread has been the drizzling sh*ts.

Some info on Ahsoka.

For those that don't know her character, she was one of the "Jedi" voices at the end of Rise of Skywalker. That was before Rosario Dawson was cast, so it was the animated actress doing the line.

hbi2k wrote:

I would hazard to guess that the number of people who could fairly be described as "Star Wars fans" who have NOT watched any significant amount of the Clone Wars cartoons probably outnumber those who have.

It's possible to build your fanservice in such a way that it's not disruptive to those who aren't the hardest-core of hardcore fans. That's not focus-grouping, that's good writing. That's empathizing with your audience.

Largely the show HAS been good about it, but I would not characterize pointing out those instances where it hasn't-- where the uninitiated wind up feeling excluded and confused-- as "hand-wringing."

In this case, if those Clone War-less fans didn't come to this thread to find out what those of us Clone Wars Positive fans had gotten excited about, would they be lost more than any other non-canon characters (say the Armorer for example) showed up?

I say no. We Clone Wars watchers are just excited about the extra layers we've been given to something we are aware of.

Now if the show starts assuming key things from the show are known to make the plot work without explanation IN SHOW, then there's a problem. We're nowhere near that with the McGuffin Darksaber or the character of Bo-Katan.

hbi2k wrote:

I would hazard to guess that the number of people who could fairly be described as "Star Wars fans" who have NOT watched any significant amount of the Clone Wars cartoons probably outnumber those who have.

It's possible to build your fanservice in such a way that it's not disruptive to those who aren't the hardest-core of hardcore fans. That's not focus-grouping, that's good writing. That's empathizing with your audience.

Largely the show HAS been good about it, but I would not characterize pointing out those instances where it hasn't-- where the uninitiated wind up feeling excluded and confused-- as "hand-wringing."

Several pages of people worrying about the show including Ashoka, Bo-Katan, and the Darksaber seems pretty hand-wringy to me. At least wait for the season to be over before declaring that making Clone Wars & Rebels references was a mistake.

It's the ages-old argument on any IP that is extremely broad and deep. How much "fan service" and callbacks to you throw in to make the "uber fan" happy (as seen in this thread over people geeking out about callbacks) without making doing homework a required part of watching the show.

As someone who is a big fan of the movies, and watched The Clone Wars (in the background while doing other stuff), I think it has balanced it well so far (I just finished S2 episode 3 or 4, the one where we see Sasha Banks). Nothing in there that we have seen so far is yelling at me "you aren't enjoying this as much as you should", and they are dropping hints on important characters and mcguffins that people watching just the cinematic universe and the 1st season of the show will pick up on and be excited about. "Hey, didn't we see him/that at the end of season 1?"

MannishBoy wrote:

In this case, if those Clone War-less fans didn't come to this thread to find out what those of us Clone Wars Positive fans had gotten excited about, would they be lost more than any other non-canon characters (say the Armorer for example) showed up?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The Blue Mando Squad was handled well, just enough exposition dropped that the broad strokes of the story are easy to follow. I'm sure there's a lot more nuance there for people who know exactly who these characters are and what their backstory is all about, but I never felt like I was missing out on anything. They were just one more set of one-episode characters going about their business whose paths happened to cross with Our Mando for a little while.

The stuff at the end of Season One with Hot Topic Lightsaber, on the other hand, fell very flat from the perspective of someone for whom the word "Darksaber" conjures up vague memories of a cheaply-made Death Star knockoff in an okay Kevin J. Anderson novel. The fact that it didn't come across that way to folks who have watched Clone Wars tells me that it's a scene that relies on in-depth lore knowledge instead of being enhanced by it.

I don't think it's at all out of line to hope that, in future, the show handles these things more like the former episode than the latter, and I don't appreciate being told to shut up and enjoy it without question or criticism or get out of the thread when I express that hope.

Have any of you watched The Mandalorian with subtitles?
IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/8ohIs0R.jpg)

Yes. My wife and I do at times for shows in heavy accents and we accidentally left it on for Mandalorian. I found that pretty amusing.

muttonchop wrote:
Vector wrote:

Unrelated to everything, I want him to hang out with a Sullustan. I love those guys.

I want to see some Ithorians, they're my favourite.

I would LOVE to see what this model and CGI team can do with an ithorian./

I always watch things with the captions on.

hbi2k wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

In this case, if those Clone War-less fans didn't come to this thread to find out what those of us Clone Wars Positive fans had gotten excited about, would they be lost more than any other non-canon characters (say the Armorer for example) showed up?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The Blue Mando Squad was handled well, just enough exposition dropped that the broad strokes of the story are easy to follow. I'm sure there's a lot more nuance there for people who know exactly who these characters are and what their backstory is all about, but I never felt like I was missing out on anything. They were just one more set of one-episode characters going about their business whose paths happened to cross with Our Mando for a little while.

The stuff at the end of Season One with Hot Topic Lightsaber, on the other hand, fell very flat from the perspective of someone for whom the word "Darksaber" conjures up vague memories of a cheaply-made Death Star knockoff in an okay Kevin J. Anderson novel. The fact that it didn't come across that way to folks who have watched Clone Wars tells me that it's a scene that relies on in-depth lore knowledge instead of being enhanced by it.

I don't think it's at all out of line to hope that, in future, the show handles these things more like the former episode than the latter, and I don't appreciate being told to shut up and enjoy it without question or criticism or get out of the thread when I express that hope.

Man, if you even know the book Darksaber existed and read enough of it to remember it was terrible, I don't think it's appropriate for you to cast yourself as the Star Wars eu ignorant you seem to be trying to.

I would like to reiterate the message from above: please stop actively trying to harsh the buzz, it's ok for there to be references you don't get yet, when it's important to the story they have been explaining it in the story, and I'll eat a hat if the Darksaber doesn't end up being important to a story about Mandolorians (a small hat, preferably knit for easy digestion in case i'm wrong)

thrawn82 wrote:

Man, if you even know the book Darksaber existed and read enough of it to remember it was terrible, I don't think it's appropriate for you to cast yourself as the Star Wars eu ignorant you seem to be trying to.

I'm ignorant of the post-Prequel-Trilogy EU. I was deep into the novels in high school (post-OT pre-PT), and then fell out of it. I didn't realize that by reading those novels I was obligating myself to either keep current with all EU lore forever, or never watch or discuss anything Star Wars ever again. Is there an office where I can either turn in my Fan Card or take a test to update the expiration date?

I would like to reiterate the message from above: please stop actively trying to harsh the buzz, it's ok for there to be references you don't get yet, when it's important to the story they have been explaining it in the story, and I'll eat a hat if the Darksaber doesn't end up being important to a story about Mandolorians (a small hat, preferably knit for easy digestion in case i'm wrong)

I would like to reiterate the message from above: enjoying elements of the series less than or differently than you do and/or being critical of the series is not "harshing the buzz." It is a legitimate perspective that does not diminish yours.

I would tend to agree that given the prominent way it was introduced and the fact that it was namedropped again recently, Hot Topic Lightsaber is likely to become plot-relevant. That does not change the fact that the way it was introduced was kinda bad from the perspective of someone who doesn't care to go back and do a lot of homework.

Given that the way they handled lore drops / references in the most recent episode was much better, I am optimistic that the series will continue to handle them well going forward.

I apologize coming out harsh, i respect that some of the references don't resonate with you. However repeatedly using dismissive contemptuous language like "hot topic lightsaber" to imply (or state) that the creators are wrong to include those references to other media in their story line really does feel like sh*tting on the love for the show, because those references are one of the things I, personally, love about the show and I do not think I'm alone in that here. If i'm mistaken about that i'll take my sad nerd sh*t and go elsewhere with it.

I'll point out that S02E01 had tons of references to shows outside of Star Wars like Deadwood and Justified. Heck, the whole show seems built off of taking old western movie tropes and twisting them. Just because you don't know them doesn't mean they hurt watching the show, you just don't get the extra layer.

I still haven't seen anything, Darksaber included, that have things to do in the plot that we have actually seen on screen that haven't been explained enough to make the show make sense to someone with no knowledge of all this other non-show canon. So if the Darksaber turns up again and you're assumed to know something about it that makes the plot make sense, I'll agree the writers missed a step. But it hasn't done anything more yet then show up as a cool looking McGuffin held by a bad guy.

I just don't see justification of the fear that you'll have to watch/read/smell/touch/taste everything in the new reset canon to have fun with The Mandalorian as a distinct show. You might get more little "oooh" moments the more knowledge of all that other stuff you have, but there are no real full on prerequisites that I've seen so far.

Now once the cross overs start happening (speculated Ashoka Tana show, maybe a Bo-Katan show, etc), then maybe you have this little pocket world where you do need to know more than what's in a distinct show. I doubt it, but will allow for the possibility of that being a problem.

The darksaber introduction is only bad if you think you *have* to do the homework. At this point it's extra credit for those that want it.
All you needed to get from that scene was that Gideon survived the crash and had a cool looking lightsaber. It was the initial showing of a chekhov's gun that won't be used until later. The background of the sword is irrelevant for now, all we need to know is that it exists and he has it. As it becomes more relevant, we'll get more of an explanation, as Din likely knows nothing of it as well.

thrawn82 wrote:

I apologize coming out harsh, i respect that some of the references don't resonate with you. However repeatedly using dismissive contemptuous language like "hot topic lightsaber" to imply (or state) that the creators are wrong to include those references to other media in their story line really does feel like sh*tting on the love for the show, because those references are one of the things I, personally, love about the show and I do not think I'm alone in that here. If i'm mistaken about that i'll take my sad nerd sh*t and go elsewhere with it.

I just like my silly nicknames for things; the intent is affectionate, not contemptuous, but I can see how that didn't come across.

I don't think the creators are wrong to include or reference elements from elsewhere in the franchise, I just think it's something that can be done more or less well, and when done less well it can occasionally be distracting. There are worse things.

On balance I'm really enjoying the show, it's arguably the best Star Wars "thing" I've seen since... jeez, I dunno... the X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter games maybe? It's not perfect, but I never feel like I have to convince myself that I'm enjoying it, which is how I felt through most of the Sequel Trilogy.

hbi2k wrote:

I just like my silly nicknames for things; the intent is affectionate, not contemptuous, but I can see how that didn't come across.

Nice gaslighting, bro!

You’re behaving like a troll. That’s what’s bothering me. It’s clearly bothering others in the thread as well.

You’ve made your case, and many in this thread disagree with your premise. I would like for you to stop trying to convince us that the show sucks. If you feel left out for not having watched Filoni’s animated stuff, I can totally understand that. But that’s not our fault.

Rawk? Seriously?

Let it go, friend. You have been very clear that you would prefer that nobody be allowed to criticize the show in this thread, but nobody's biting. I'm sorry that the fact that not everybody loves the show as deeply and without reservation as you do bothers you, but that is, as you say, not my fault.

"That one scene fell a little flat; the show has done better since and I hope and believe that it will continue to do better, and I'm still enjoying it very much on balance" is pretty mild as criticisms go. If that remains too spicy for you, I really don't know what to tell you.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm becoming concerned that I won't be able to follow what's happening in this show because I didn't do my homework and watch all 121 episodes of Clone Wars.

I just meant that I wasn't jazzed about watching a show with homework. I am so sorry for... whatever all the rest of this has been.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm becoming concerned that I won't be able to follow what's happening in this show because I didn't do my homework and watch all 121 episodes of Clone Wars.

I just meant that I wasn't jazzed about watching a show with homework. I am so sorry for... whatever all the rest of this has been.

Hah. This thread went down a Sarlacc pit. (Homework reference?)

IMAGE(https://thebrotherhoodofevilgeeks.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/sarlacc-pit.jpg)

Whoever's anus that is should see a doctor.

Yeah, that thing looks prolapsed. Probably couldn't even hold in a Mandalorian.

hbi2k wrote:

Yeah, that thing looks prolapsed. Probably couldn't even hold in a Mandalorian.

*Somebody in Mandalorian armor.

(couldn't resist)

A Mandalorian in Mandalorian armor, a non-Mandalorian in Mandalorian armor, or a non-Mandalorian not in Mandalorian armor, but not a Mandalorian not in Mandalorian armor, because that is not the Way, unless the Mandalorian armor is blue, in which case it's okay. I'll have to check that against Wookieepedia, but I think it tracks.

Mandalorian.

hbi2k wrote:

A Mandalorian in Mandalorian armor, a non-Mandalorian in Mandalorian armor, or a non-Mandalorian not in Mandalorian armor, but not a Mandalorian not in Mandalorian armor, because that is not the Way, unless the Mandalorian armor is blue, in which case it's okay. I'll have to check that against Wookieepedia, but I think it tracks.

Mandalorian.

Boba Fett isn't a Mandalorian. Just has Mandalorian armor. Kind of like S02E01. The Marshall wasn't a Mandalorian, but was wearing the armor.

I figured from the context of your last post. (-:

My knowledge of Fett's character and backstory is all pre-PT, was vague even at the time (probably because they wanted to keep their options open for stuff like making him that one guy's clone-son in the PT), and has probably been retconned since then, and my knowledge of what Mandalorians actually are all comes from this show and is apparently skewed by the fact that Our Mando was raised by a weird splinter sect according to this latest episode.