Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Yeah, I'm really starting to get sick of fighting ghostly guards and random Wild Hunt enemies in the mansion at the end. I'm ready for a big climactic boss battle and then the ending cutscene(s).

You could always do Beneath the Stolen Lands DLC in lieu of another campaign run. That is essentially what it is designed for

fangblackbone wrote:

You could always do Beneath the Stolen Lands DLC in lieu of another campaign run. That is essentially what it is designed for :)

ooh that is a good idea. i haven't really touched it outside of the main campaign (Valarie looks very fetching in her new cloak)

I have been trying out the kineticists in BTSL off and on for a the last week or so.
My initial take on the kinetic knight was poor since they seemed neither a good damage dealer nor moderately tanky.

I did some thought experiments and some trials. The result was the real gem of what makes P:K so special. At first you stumble, but then it keeps digging at you. So you try new approaches and you discover gold.

I have a level 8 solo kinetic knight that isn't quite perfect but a ton of fun. I went two wep fighting with shield bash plus the motherless tiefling for the bite. I think I'd rather go cleave next time or if I am going twf then go with less dex and more str. Right now, with dex, I am not getting any +damage to the shield or bite attacks. I have an agile fist amulet that will use dex to hit for the bite and a light shield but I want to use a heavy shield.

It seems like dex is used for to hit on the kinetic blade but con is used for damage. So there is a lot of room to play but my current kin kni is hearty and fun. Do we know if kineticists can be arcane tricksters? Because that might be fun if your kin blade keeps going up along with more sneak attack dice.

my kinetic knight main worked out really well. i leaned hard into charisma and took a level in rogue thug along with dazzling display. Fearing enemies is extremely powerful is this game. he wasn't up to valarie's AC but he was a solid off tank and i had no issues in the solo portion. Also theres something that i'm not sure is a bug or intended, but the blade whirl ability applies whatever blast you have selected, but only does the ability's burn regardless of whether its a composite or single blast. Once he got up to where dazzling display triggers for free when you kill something he really started to shine.

I don;t think kineticist abilities count as arcane, since they don't actually have spells so no arcane trickster.

Two-weapon fighting and the shield bash tree is amazing. My Deliverer 3/Paladin 14 uses it, and I've been so happy with the results that I'll probably use that same feat tree in WotR.

Yeah it doesn't work. The good news is that eldritch rogue is the fastest way to get to arcane trickster. The bad news is that AT levels don't towards kin levels so even if you use an arcane class to get AT, a 1 level dip in kin offers minimal benefits.

Water element's defense wild talent is pretty awesome for classes that don't wear armor or would be better served to not wear armor. 2 levels in kin provides a nice boost to monks especially using the kin that uses wisdom in place of con for rolls. You can whittle down the need for multiple stats to dex and wis with an agile fit amulet and weapon finesse.

It might be nice to test out a rogue too. I'm not sure if you can use sneak attack with ranged touch attacks. It would also be cool to find out whether the water defense wild talent in shield form works with an offhand weapon. (I know it does not stack if you are wearing a shield)

How do you get the kineticist class?

Meanwhile I just cleared Act 2 and am slowly working on Act 3. Probably the most annoying part of the game for me is the kingdom management - it takes forever to build up enough BP to do anything and there's not much time reprieve between Acts to just spam skip day to build up enough BP to build settlements and do all the projects like trade agreements etc.

Enku is a beast. Metal Devourer bow plus buffs and he's literally outdpsing the rest of the party. I'm shocked because ranged attackers have traditionally been weak compared to melee in D&D.

The wildcards DLC includes tieflings and kineticists. I nabbed it on a recent sale for ~3.50$
Worth every penny...

Oh, this game has been well worth every penny, I grabbed it at the last sale.

My only beef is the gold fee to respec whenever a shiny new weapon rears its head...I want to install a mod that freely permits respecs but then it will affect the achievements.

I'm surprised there wasn't a paladin companion this time around, so I'm tempted to restart with a Paladin (for the CHR and pump persuasion for the dialogue checks) and use the Magus companion as an alternative. Or I could make as many Rangers as possible and watch the animal pack cause a deadly ruckus...hmm options options!

^ The mod I suspect you have under review manages so many [other] wonderful things! Precise name escapes me. Been a while. That said, I can respect a preference for not mucking with achievements.

I am so, entirely, ready for the sequel.

Bfgp wrote:

Oh, this game has been well worth every penny, I grabbed it at the last sale.

My only beef is the gold fee to respec whenever a shiny new weapon rears its head...I want to install a mod that freely permits respecs but then it will affect the achievements.

I'm surprised there wasn't a paladin companion this time around, so I'm tempted to restart with a Paladin (for the CHR and pump persuasion for the dialogue checks) and use the Magus companion as an alternative. Or I could make as many Rangers as possible and watch the animal pack cause a deadly ruckus...hmm options options!

I did 3 levels of Deliverer (Slayer archetype) and Paladin for the rest - if you take the feat that makes your sneak attack better, you get 2d6 in sneak attack and the benefits of Studied Target with no hit to your BAB. Since most of the enemies you fight are at least 2 steps away from LG, you also get the benefits of Determined Zeal in basically every fight, too.

Recreational Villain wrote:

^ The mod I suspect you have under review manages so many [other] wonderful things! Precise name escapes me. Been a while. That said, I can respect a preference for not mucking with achievements.

I am so, entirely, ready for the sequel.

Same. The new one sounds really cool, too.

Is the story better than Pillars of Eternity? I bounced off POE hard because the story to me was so convoluted with big words and things that never explain.

Just super tempted at $16 for this.

Different people have different opinions of course. Since I really liked PoE story I am probably not the right person to give an answer.
But while I like Pathfinder as a game, the story was disjointed. From what I understand it combines multiple different Pathfinder campaigns into one story, which might be the reason.

And throws the kingdom building on top of it...
But it certainly is not bad by any stretch. Plus you have the awesome Beneath the Stolen Lands DLC to occupy yourself for hours testing builds and party compositions.

Balthezor wrote:

Is the story better than Pillars of Eternity? I bounced off POE hard because the story to me was so convoluted with big words and things that never explain.
Just super tempted at $16 for this.

Short vsn: I came around to P:K, but it took a time investment. The beginning is pants.
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I appreciate the ideas behind PoE I, but it's difficult to become immersed unless one doubles down on studying world backstory and such. Also, it wasn't entirely easy to inject my character into from the jump.

P:K gets better as you go along, but erratic elements of the early story, and introductory companion writing, are straight up 10 year old tells another 10 year old a fantasy story. The beginning, imo, is just bad and uneven in several spots and I actively hated a number of the companions. Seriously, if you end up with the X-Paladin or Barbarian lady: exhaust their dialogue after the ending of the intro segment.

The barbarian is just offensively bad and entirely lacking in creativity with all of the mediocre swearing and 'Rggggh-grunt- I am killer HAR HAR Arghwhoo!!!! why we stand here?' Not in an amusing tongue-in-cheek way either, mind you.

PoE II, which never seemed to get much widespread love, is my writing jam though -- even without being a Pirates in the Caribbean setting lover. It's also very reactive. The in-cabin talk with Eder and the first antagonistic dialogue/encounter you have, after walking out of your boat cabin, contains several reactive [individual and unique] audio responses back for background, snarky/cunning, cruel/aggressive, diplomatic, mystic, religious/deity affiliation, do you remember, do you not remember etc-etc.

While dissimilar in the level of intro 'boom', PoE II stirred that feeling of MY Shepard -- in feeling if not the same level of starting spectacle. Also, and this is separate, but go back to PoE I and it's just visually bland in comparison. PoE II is gorgeous. It is often setting creative, even if the main island-mountain city is a bit too sprawling. P:K has some rather nice vistas too, btw.

Spoiler:

I was pretty much in love with the writing aspect of PoE II after I doubled down on the 'I don't remember sh*t', to which Eder explained he was the captain and I was some poor soul who just started following him around like a lost puppy -- and who should totally take all the hits for him in combat, even should I start to recollect otherwise.. HAH

To be fair, and back to P:K, it picks up but it's slooow to get going unless you buy in from the start. So, in that way, it can be a bit like PoE I with how approachable you may find it outside of the mechanics of chargen.
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Anyways, story isn't the primary reason to dive into P:K -- in RE to Balthezor's inquiry.

PoE1 was very dry, until the last two hours, which were amazing. POE2 was much better, with far better characters and a much more interesting plotline. It had a problem with too many factions, where they all got kinda blurry, but by and large, it was quite good.

P:K has a weird mishmash of writing. Some of it is excellent. Much is execrable. The underlying story ends up being quite good, but it takes a great long while to find that out.

And, as Recreational Villain says, some of the voice casting is terrible. Their voice director chose poorly indeed.

Overall, it's probably most like the Icewind Dale games.... it's totally combat-focused. The story is here is better than IWD's, but I don't think it'll be talked about with much nostalgia in the future.

Thanks all for the input. I think I will skip it, even though $16 is so so tempting. I just don't know anything about Pathfinder and it's systems. I feel like I will probably get lost and lose interest quick.

If you are a podcast listener, the Glass Cannon podcast is a great Pathfinder campaign play podcast. Everything I know about pathfinder I learned from listening. :). Start at episode one.

Well I don't know anything about the latest edition of DND or the Pathfinder stuff, but for $16 I couldn't resist. It's been a good long time since I've played a P&P based computer rpg. Like NWN long time ago. I've tried a few since, but never stuck with them.

So I'm jumping in with both feet and figuring it all out will be part of the fun.

13 days until the sale is done. Let me know BadKen!!!

Balthezor wrote:

Is the story better than Pillars of Eternity? I bounced off POE hard because the story to me was so convoluted with big words and things that never explain.

Just super tempted at $16 for this.

It's certainly SIGNIFICANTLY less depressing!

EDIT: There's definitely an element of politicking between fictional nations that seems overwhelming at the beginning, but ultimately isn't too bad in practice. Most of the stuff you'll deal with is direct, internal threats of one type or another.

Im about 60% through the main story. I think.

Nok Nok with the two Mother's Kukris is a benchmark on the glass cannon to beat LOL.

I've respecced again just now: 2PLD/4THUG/7FIGHTER and it cost 30,000 gold.

Dueling Blades with 7 attacks a round (using a +4 speedy mithril dagger offhand) unhasted. Doesn't really beat Nok Nok but doubles as an off-tank; I'm sure there will be targets I can't apply sneak damage on so I'm hedging my bets based on quantity of strikes and lower d6 die (Nok Nok gets d8 sneak attack rolls with his finesse weapons he hits like a dragon) I just love the idea of TWF feats with all that sneak attack. Two handed weapons the animation and damage proc too slowly. I may change my mind as I discover more weapons.

I love the plot twist at the end of one of the arcs. Well it wasn't unexpected but that character's voice acting was superb.

I've spent over 100 hours ingame. Much of it rerolling my MC LOL. What about a ranger multiclass vivisectionist with claws and bite and an amulet of mighty fists and lead blades and acid fangs...yikes it will keep me testing for days on end!

^ Aaaaand Bfgp paints a wonderful picture of why P:K is so damn alluring, despite other shortcomings.

Incomprehensible to the uninitiated, but music to the ears once you fall down the rabbit hole a bit -- love the Nok Nok knockoff ruminations.
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As to two handed: I prefer gish tricks, but there's a few weapons* that pair exceptionally well with a charge (pounce iirc??), GREATER beast totem (lesser is trash tax), bite-->trip barbarian wearing ~ 'cloak of the winter wolf' (or thereabouts, been a while) with Viv tricks for icing and better damage avoidance late game. Unsure if the sum package got the nerf bat. It was a comparative machine gun when built for the trip-->bites to proc other nastiness.

Using another high(er) high stealth party member to scout the enemy front line then stealth charge in at a weak point with the above barb.

*There's a fauchard that goes really well here, also iirc, a negative energy scythe that's just brutal for splash crit of the latter.

important edit/add: you can construct better builds , but this guy was a loltastic group-killer in some areas; there's a tiefling sub that will give you a boost to the bite (count, iirc). As with the more outlandish builds, always try to stack up on all the core gimmicks.

I understood some of those words.

BadKen wrote:

I understood some of those words.

I think he's speaking... Welsh?

imbiginjapan wrote:
BadKen wrote:

I understood some of those words.

I think he's speaking... Welsh?

If so, then it's Welsh 3.5 ed !

It is the language you pick up when you play BTSL DLC for over 25 hours ;P

RV was talking about ridiculous setups.

For example the cloak of the winter wolf provides, on a successful bite attack, 1d6 extra damage and a trip combat manoeuvre which if successful is like someone falling over on grease, thereby giving procs of attacks of opportunity as the target stands up. Vivisectionist gets a physical stat boosting ability (mutagen) which you can take a feat to grow claws and fangs which adds an extra bite attack and unarmed attacks. That class is like a hybrid rogue/wizard/cleric and gets a lot of buff spells (eg Shield). And to top it all off it gets sneak attack dies added in so you can increase the number of attacks per round. For my part, the issue is the duration of the mutagen and whether the build generates enough damage to offset the lower base attack bonus and number of attacks a TWF knife master / martial class can pump out at 3 attacks per weapon.

Each time new loot enters my stash I'm looking at it wondering how I can tweak or create a new build. I think that's the magic of this game.