Pathfinder: Kingmaker

It is another well known and loved Pathfinder adventure path called Wrth of the Rightous in which the PCs take on the WorldWound, i giant pit-canyon that opens into Hell (or The AByss, i can;t recall which)

they are still using all the bones they built and it will still be based in Pathfinder 1st edition as opposed to the new pathfinder 2nd edition rules (which is good, i like the new ruleset but i def prefer them not throwing away all the bug smashing work they already did)

Oh god, I am off the deep end again!
I started looking back at earlier posts and delved into sense vitals and vital strike.
Then I fell down the rabbit hole by looking up the call of the wild classes: hunter, bloodrager, and skald.
And now I am looking at magus arcana because it never quite sunk in that turning melee attacks into touch attacks for all intents and purposes negates most armor.

And then there were the side trips where I wonder what the spell table is for an eldritch scoundrel. The tabletop says it follows the magus spell table which means I wouldn't get arcane level 2 spells until 4. (which means the quickest way to sense vitals is 3 levels of wiz) . If the video game differs then, NICE!

When I first looked at spellstrike and such with the magus, I didn't see the benefit of delivering a spell with a melee or bow/ranged attack. (unless it is something where the damage from the weapon gets added to the spell damage like everything hit by a fireball takes fireball damage and the bow damage)

Unfortunately when researching this stuff, it is difficult sometimes to determine which stuff sounds like it is implemented in the video game but is not

So how is the game now with the new Enhanced Edition?

^ Love or hate it? Or perhaps hate-hate-love (because third time is the charm)? I will say this, of recent-ish games it's the one I've most forgiven upon subsequent re-installs. Hmm... my enthusiasm to recommend grows in scale with the sales price you find.
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On the news of a sequel:
IF they learned their bug/design/balance lessons from the first game AND there are signs that the early story/protagonist/NPC writing isn't as uneven as it was in the first game (things got better with time) then I'd be keen to see how the sequel goes. Considering all they had to cobble together for the game, it's somewhat amazing considering they aren't a deep pockets studio.
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@ Fang -- there are a ton of seemingly dubious but completely viable 'odd' builds that require 'the one thing' be just right or heavily maximized in order to work. The game eventually impressed me there. Some things that are, at first glance, very same-y end up relying on a very specific (though, sometimes, still fun or ammusing) gimmick.

@balthezor-
I was an early adopter that bounce very hard off of the game at launch. The character customization is so deep that I was always frustrated with where I was in the campaign versus where I wanted to be or saw potential in being.
If you are familiar with Pathfinder, then you probably won't experience the same things I did at the start. That being said what nearly changed this into the game of the year that I spent 150-200 hours in is the Beneath the Stolen Lands DLC that turns the game into a randomly generated dungeon crawl. Levels come much quicker so experimenting with builds is countless hours of fun.

I have since gone back to the campaign a few times and gotten more mileage (hours) out of that. The campaign is good, not great and for me it is still way more fun to uncover new skill combinations and class mixings.

Re: ranged spell strike
It seems that either lack of touch AC really impacts the damage done or monsters have significant DR that it bypasses or the listed strike damage is not accurate. Because at level 7 (2 eld archer, 5 eld scoundrel or viv) with an acid splash spell strike I 2 shotted a direwolf. The damage listed is vague and shows 18 and 6 in the 2 attacks. I have gone all dex and int so I am getting no STR bonus. I do have a couple of die of sneak attack and it is possible that my other character's pet did and AoO. But I got to an encounter where I was the only one left standing and was able to finish off 1and a half other wolves solo.

I guess the test is to start a fresh game with the character solo but I am leaning that all 3 are probably true: damage numbers are off, and touch AC and DR can half the amount of damage needed to kill monsters.

Side note: I wish I could find a skill/talent/spell that uses dex for damage for bows

I am not familiar with Pathfinder at all. Played the old Black Isle, Bioware games. Liked Pillars of Eternity 1 but got tired of the slogged. The screen shots of this game just looks so cool.

fangblackbone wrote:

@balthezor-
That being said what nearly changed this into the game of the year that I spent 150-200 hours in is the Beneath the Stolen Lands DLC that turns the game into a randomly generated dungeon crawl. Levels come much quicker so experimenting with builds is countless hours of fun.

I abandoned my run at around dungeon level 15 because it felt like I was fighting mostly the same things over and over. Does it ever get more diverse (other than fighting a poison version of a fire version thing I just fought)?

It gets particularly nasty in the mid 20's and I haven't gotten any higher than dungeon level 34-35.
Lots of elder elementals, and really nasty giant spiders. I wouldn't say it gets too terribly diverse but it is varied enough for me.

If you aren't familiar with pathfinder then wait for a sale and hopefully it is a gold edition with all the DLC. Unfortunately, I haven't seen it on sale. I'm not sure if there is an edition that includes the DLCs either...

So, one of the most bugged and unbalanced games I have ever played. But also really, really good in many ways, one of the few games that ever had a fighting chance against Baldurs Gate 2.

I instantly joined in on the new kickstarter for the sequel.
It is doing pretty well so far.

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous

Like all other games claiming to have some amount of RPG in them these days, they of course got a copy of Chris Avellone in there as well.
Also there is a lot less Kingdom building. Wohoo.

I did as well. and joining the kickstarted and watching their videos also pushed me over the edge of trying out the turn based mod and finishing my second run though as a Sward-Fire-Bender.

also i am inordinately excited by both the Lich and the Worm-That-Walks (did anyone experience Age of Kyuss Back In The Day(tm)?) which is weird since i usually play a goody two shoes character

FYI, backing is almost at a cool million dollars now. (929K of a 300K ask)

As much as I want to, I just can't back it until it is confirmed that there will be an endless dungeon. (DLC or hopefully included)

Shadout wrote:

So, one of the most bugged and unbalanced games I have ever played. But also really, really good in many ways, one of the few games that ever had a fighting chance against Baldurs Gate 2.

I instantly joined in on the new kickstarter for the sequel.
It is doing pretty well so far.

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous

Like all other games claiming to have some amount of RPG in them these days, they of course got a copy of Chris Avellone in there as well.
Also there is a lot less Kingdom building. Wohoo.

I backed again. I'm probably only going to back 1 or 2 more if they don't get this one right!

Kingmaker is super fantastic... ehrm... now after they patched out all the horrific bugs. Even better w the turn based mod.

I agree that Kingmaker is a ton of fun with the turn-based mod. I never played it before now, so dont know how bad things were. But quite enjoying its current state!

I was a kickjstarter. It was pretty bad when it first came out, like you cannot progress past chapter 4 or 7 bad. I think the issue was they ran out of $$ and needed sales to fund finishing. However they did really bust ass and fixed it, so i think they deserve huge credit for that. Turn based it great, but i also found it really good without it as well

Official turn-based support announced. Not even a stretch-goal. Sounds like they are fans of the TB mod in Kingmaker.

I am not a fan, I worry it increases the risk of ending up with two badly designed systems instead of one good, and I greatly prefer RTwP to TB. But I know a lot of people like TB.

The kickstarter is still increasing surprisingly fast.

I'm with you Shadout.
I liked TB mod for the options it gave you but I ended up preferring RTwP.
They don't need to and can't compete with D:OS 2

The pathfinder ruleset works better in TB, mostly because thats what it has been balanced for over the past 15 or so years, but i would really prefer they pick one commit to it. Build a RTwP game and let some talented modder make TB if they want to, or abandon RTwP and commit fully to balancing for TB.

The key feature of the TB mod is the ability to turn it off, because some encounters are swollen with enemies in a way you'd never see in PnP in order to make the game more interesting for faster paced RTwP

Build a RTwP game and let some talented modder make TB if they want to

That is what happened with Kingmaker and I am totally okay with that. In fact, it will probably be easier for the modder this time around since the groundwork is already there. Plus it is the Unity engine and not some unknown, complex proprietary engine.

Yup. I believe I was banging on this drum previously: the TB mod is GREAT, but it's essential that you have it on an easy hotkey so you can toggle it on/off.

As to the Kickstarter, despite my initial (and some still standing) misgivings with the first, I have backed. At the very least the scope of their first major outing was impressive and, I suspect, some of the backlash from that go-round will temper their choices going in this time. Hopefully they get things right at the ground floor level going up.

Recreational Villain wrote:

Yup. I believe I was banging on this drum previously: the TB mod is GREAT, but it's essential that you have it on an easy hotkey so you can toggle it on/off.

As to the Kickstarter, despite my initial (and some still standing) misgivings with the first, I have backed. At the very least the scope of their first major outing was impressive and, I suspect, some of the backlash from that go-round will temper their choices going in this time. Hopefully they get things right at the ground floor level going up.

i read that toggling it while in combat can cause issues, did you experience anything like that?

I don't recall encountering any issues, however, the mod's dev was still in the throws of updating it last I upgraded. It's possible that a feature was added which doesn't sit will with mid combat toggling.

At the time he was hitting [yet another] stride of his own game 'bug fixes' as well as tweaks certain skills to make them more PNP like (optional toggles).

ps. My playstyle may have rendered me immune. I was... extreme with giving folks stealth ranks so I could creep around and setup a strong opening. So, often when I toggled, it was before I engaged.
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edit/add: looks like they are at $1,113,859 of the latest stretch goal of "double reactivity" (at 1.55M). I suspect, given the time left, they may well hit that mark before the surge crests, then steeply drops off. I'm a sucker for party banter so I'm all about that, particular, SG!

Wrups, apparently "double reactivity" was 1.115M, which they have now blown through at 1.205M !

I could see switching during combat being problematic.
When I tried it out, there were some spells that took partial turns or messed with initiative to cast because they were slow casting spells in realtime. I'd wager switching to realtime during a "half" casted spell would be difficult to track unless you put something in to just drop the cast on switching between modes. It would annoy the player but its a hell of a lot better than a crash...

From the announcement about adding turn based mode, it sounded to me like the game will still be designed as RTwP. The devs seem to be big fans of how the mod was designed and it wouldn't surprise me if they simply tweak that mod implementation a bit to include out of the box.

I've backed WotR and yesterday I was home sick from work, so I pushed through to a later point in the story in Kingmaker than I'd previously seen - just finished up with the Rushlight games. The better signposting of what means what and so on in the Enhanced Edition is great - even simple things like "which piece of this artifact am I missing" and being able to compare a list of where the pieces are to the places you found the ones you have is so nice.

I am going to go crazy trying to settle on a PC in WotR, though. The sheer number of possible combinations is mind-blowing. Last I checked, they're up to 24 base classes with 6 subclasses each, plus who knows how many prestige classes, plus additional race options, plus the mythic paths.

i also hopped back on kingmaker after joining the WotR kickstarter. i am in the interum following Twice Born Prince, it's my longest run (kinetic knight, which i am loving) but i probably played act 1 7 times with different characters before going bac kand restarting w a different build

I'd kinda like to try a CG run next time - my current ruler and kingdom are LG (some paladin levels in there) and while I'm always going to want to take the good option, it'd be fun to try things from Linzi and Octavia's side.

I've been neutral good this run, and i have really liked the peacemaker options that pop up for being neutral.

am a bit sad about (REDACTED) in season of the bloom because i wasn't lawful though :/

From the AMA on reddit:

Q:Beneath the Stolen Lands is such a fun and popular way for people to play custom parties. Will WoR feature any sort of "endless" or repeatable dungeon?

A:AlexanderMishulin
Right now we are focusing on story-driven part of content, we have a great story to tell. As most of the story content will be completed we will review what "game modes" will be able to add to the game

Boo! Not written off but I had hoped it would be included/expanded at release.