[Discussion] American Exceptionalism (or lack thereof)

To openly discuss the inherent exceptionalism present in all Americans, because they were born in a particular time and place.
Alternatively, Americans do not wear Maybelline and we have to earn it.

The following posts initiated this discussion:

oilypenguin wrote:

...
So I honestly have no idea what to do. I really do despair for the soul of our nation.
That said, this has been a sobering wake up call. A nation, a people, is only as good as our actions.
And we're sh*theads right now. We're not inherently good. We're not special. I think more Americans needs to figure this out. We're only as good as our actions.
And currently we're committing legitimate crimes against humanity.

Mixolyde wrote:

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. We are just as human as anyone else and susceptible to the same vulnerabilities as any other population. This is the lesson. There is no American Exceptionalism.

DSGamer wrote:

...
We’re not exceptional and nothing is going to change that until we take action.

Paleocon wrote:

We as Americans have been historically lucky and that luck has convinced some to confuse that with the “blessings of god”. Moreover they have led themselves to believe that those “blessings” stem from some special inherent goodness.

They are wrong.

Our luck will run out.

This thread will probably die an exceptionally fiery death but here is a Wikipedia Reference as an appetizer. Now, go forth and have a healthy discourse..

I had thought the "exceptionalism" applied to the whole laying out of a guiding document and muddling along as a representative democracy for however man years (2016 - 1776 = 240, I guess?).

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

I had thought the "exceptionalism" applied to the whole laying out of a guiding document and muddling along as a representative democracy for however man years (2016 - 1776 = 240, I guess?).

It’s definitely unprecedented in human history. Or was. But that initial experiment in self-governance is tainted by the facts of Slavery and the wider systemic killing of the native people, IMO. From the start.

Black Americans don’t get enfranchised until the 60s, so the US has only really been a fully representative democracy for 50 years or so. And in that time conservatives have worked almost constantly to deny people the same hard-fought right to vote.

Finally, when an American of color breaks through and wins the presidency they lose their minds and elect our worst citizen BECAUSE of the imagined racial grievances he airs.

So we’re exceptional insofar as there have been few democracies of this diversity to have lasted this long, unless you don’t count the majority of our history where people with certain skin color were denied the right to vote and sometimes denied the right to be free.

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

I had thought the "exceptionalism" applied to the whole laying out of a guiding document and muddling along as a representative democracy for however man years (2016 - 1776 = 240, I guess?).

You may be confusing American Exceptionalism with The American Experiment.

The American Experiment, or The Great Experiment as Washington once called it, was the concept of self-rule. Specifically, the ideals written into the Declaration of Independence: all men being equal (*cough*), unalienable rights, the rule of law, government deriving its power from the consent of the governed, the right of the people to alter or abolish the government.

American Exceptionalism refers to the idea that America is unique and special, and will always be unique and special, in the way it promotes & protects personal freedom and democracy. Additionally, some see it as the role of America to transform the world in its image.

Let's see where this goes

Quintin_Stone wrote:
H.P. Lovesauce wrote:

I had thought the "exceptionalism" applied to the whole laying out of a guiding document and muddling along as a representative democracy for however man years (2016 - 1776 = 240, I guess?).

You may be confusing American Exceptionalism with The American Experiment.

The American Experiment, or The Great Experiment as Washington once called it, was the concept of self-rule. Specifically, the ideals written into the Declaration of Independence: all men being equal (*cough*), unalienable rights, the rule of law, government deriving its power from the consent of the governed, the right of the people to alter or abolish the government.

American Exceptionalism refers to the idea that America is unique and special, and will always be unique and special, in the way it promotes & protects personal freedom and democracy. Additionally, some see it as the role of America to transform the world in its image.

Ohh, okay, thank you. Well then, "yes" to the first and f*ck the second.

There is a lot of layers in American Exceptionalism too. The whole native american purge, and subsequent stolen generation of children, flowed directly out of American Exceptionalism and Manifest Destiny: the idea that the original populations here are "savage" and needed to be "saved" by "making them more american"

As an outsider looking in, I would agree that the US is exceptional in a number ways, has stopped being unique in many others, and as of late, has allowed itself to become seem unique by embracing dysfunctional ideologies as mainstream. I say seem because there were a number of things I believed the US government and the American people were above just for the sake of being American.

I've had a few conversations with Canadians over the decades and we always half-jokingly commented on Americans as that obnoxiously-loud-yet-deep-down-not-that-bad-nextdoor neighbor.

Since 9-11 to the Trump election, and especially over the last 500 days, we've gone from being scared for you to start becoming scared of you.

Hobbes2099 wrote:

Since 9-11 to the Trump election, and especially over the last 500 days, we've gone from being scared for you to start becoming scared of you.

As someone on the inside, that seems like a well founded and rational reaction. I'm scared of us too.

It started long before 9/11, the anti-intellectual, proud ignorance that got us to a place where Trump could be president. 9/11 was just gas on a smoldering fire.

Rather than reassure the nation the Bush Administration dove headlong into manufacturing panic and anxiety and the right wing media and talking heads were relentless fearmongers.

People like David Frum and Bill Kristol, who love to act like sages voices of conservative sanity right now, were part of the problem. And they weren’t alone. An entire generation of politicians and talking heads gave into fear and caused us to lose our minds and prioritize our money and lives completely incorrectly.

9/11 was so bad psychically. Watching buildings filled with human beings crumble after other human beings guided planes filled with people into them... it’s terrible in a way that would be almost too much to comprehend if we hadn’t lived through it.

But we had a choice of how to respond. And a choice of what to focus on. To say that we, as a nation, chose poorly is to put it lightly. And we live with the fallout of those choices every day.

thrawn82 wrote:
Hobbes2099 wrote:

Since 9-11 to the Trump election, and especially over the last 500 days, we've gone from being scared for you to start becoming scared of you.

As someone on the inside, that seems like a well founded and rational reaction. I'm scared of us too.

Agreed. If we recover from this, we will have to work very very hard to regain some level of trust from our allies/rest of the world. I fear that some of my exceptionalist friends will refuse to even participate in that conversation/effort if it were to occur.

Nimcosi wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:
Hobbes2099 wrote:

Since 9-11 to the Trump election, and especially over the last 500 days, we've gone from being scared for you to start becoming scared of you.

As someone on the inside, that seems like a well founded and rational reaction. I'm scared of us too.

Agreed. If we recover from this, we will have to work very very hard to regain some level of trust from our allies/rest of the world. I fear that some of my exceptionalist friends will refuse to even participate in that conversation/effort if it were to occur.

Agreed. With the side note that I'm confident we'll recover.

thrawn82 wrote:

There is a lot of layers in American Exceptionalism too. The whole native american purge, and subsequent stolen generation of children, flowed directly out of American Exceptionalism and Manifest Destiny: the idea that the original populations here are "savage" and needed to be "saved" by "making them more american"

Yes, I linked the Wikipedia page because I knew I wouldn't be able to write an adequate summary.

America does have exceptionalism. The problem right now is leadership. When there is an absence of leadership on the goodness of Americans and a blind eye nod to the fear mongers, you have the current state of our exceptionalism.
The fact that it is fragile isn't necessarily a bad thing. Exceptionalism should be challenged and earned regularly. Much like our system of peaceful transition of power.

fangblackbone wrote:

America does have exceptionalism. The problem right now is leadership. When there is an absence of leadership on the goodness of Americans and a blind eye nod to the fear mongers, you have the current state of our exceptionalism.
The fact that it is fragile isn't necessarily a bad thing. Exceptionalism should be challenged and earned regularly. Much like our system of peaceful transition of power.

What exceptionalism does America have? Are Americans just better people, albeit suffering from a temporary leadership problem? Do Americans have more freedom? Are they better educated?

Bullsh*t. The moment you start buying into that notion, you automatically put other people down, and that leads to a whole heap of trouble. Yes, there are things America does better than others, but there are also things France does better. Or China. Or Jamaica. People are people, nobody is more "exceptional" than anyone else.

I don't think the idea of exceptionalism in gang's post is centered around people, but rather the form of government.