[Discussion] The Individual 1 Administration Thread 2

Let's follow and discuss what our newest presidential administration gets up to, the good, the bad, the lawsuits, and the many many indictments.

JC wrote:

Agreed. Trump is a colossal narcissist through and through. He isn't going to step down. He believes he is the best thing in the world and anyone who things differently is wrong.

I think he could step down, not because he thinks that he doesn't deserve a second term, but because he convinces himself that the US doesn't deserve him for a second term. That would absolutely be his speel.

OG_slinger wrote:
Jonman wrote:

Another thing no-one's talking about - Trump getting primaried out the race. I know the power of incumbency, but I also know the power of a spurned electorate.

No one's talking about it because it ain't gonna happen. Trump has 89% approval among Republicans.

Republicans absolutely love what he's doing even if it's ineffectual. Hell, they love him even though he's implementing policies that are hurting them directly. To them they finally have someone in the White House who's fighting for them.

No Republican politician in their right mind would primary Trump. It would be their death.

Besides, there's not a single Republican with the stones and integrity to do so. They all bent the knee after Trump won the primary. And no matter what Trump does in office, none of them have had the courage to do anything more than write a milquetoast op-ed because they're all f*cking terrified of pissing off Trump's base.

I don't think it's hugely likely, but you're portraying the situation as far more certain that it is. A primary challenger would get a lot of attention and sell a lot of books, considering that there is a tremendously good chance that our CURRENT President chose to start his campaign started based on that there is some precedence. Also, while such a challenger would torpedo their short term political strength... probably, I think they could definitely convince themselves that such a run would be politically valuable in 2028. A younger politician (as in, not much over 50) may definitely think that was a worthwhile political move to play.

OG_slinger wrote:

While you are right that Republicans saw about a 5% drop in party identification during the first year of Trump's presidency, that doesn't mean those people are lost of the GOP forever. It just means that they don't want to be called a Republican for now. When November 2019 rolls around they're very likely going to cast their vote for Trump again, if only because they hate/fear the Democrats.

I'm sure plenty of them will cast their vote for whoever is the Republican nominee is. If it's Trump, plenty of them will hold their noses and vote for him. But, crucially, not all of them are coming back. And given his razor thin margins in 2016, that could matter.

OG_slinger wrote:

About the only situation I could see where Trump gets primaried is if it's a dark horse candidate that's even more batsh*t crazy and extreme than he is.

IMAGE(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/840/283/350.png)

Jayhawker wrote:

I heard speculation last night that this emergency powers plan is really just a ploy to get out of the mess he’s created without angering his base.

Alternatively, "I'm just going to do it without you!" is one of Trump's go-to negotiating tactics; showing up for a negotiation, pounding the table, and walking away is apparently a bit of theater he's done before, too. There was an interesting article back during the primaries about a significant real estate deal that Trump torpedoed, and it gives a good sense of how he negotiates complex deals, or rather fails to. Calling everyone a big dummy and vowing to make the deal happen without them seems to be an end stage step before he just walks away.

Yonder wrote:

I think he could step down, not because he thinks that he doesn't deserve a second term, but because he convinces himself that the US doesn't deserve him for a second term. That would absolutely be his speel.

Trump's a coward and a narcissist. He'll run away from anything that makes him look weak. I believe he'd rather resign than lose like big 'ole losey loser.

The only question is whether he's too dumb to see the shellacking coming.

Yonder wrote:

I don't think it's hugely likely, but you're portraying the situation as far more certain that it is. A primary challenger would get a lot of attention and sell a lot of books, considering that there is a tremendously good chance that our CURRENT President chose to start his campaign started based on that there is some precedence. Also, while such a challenger would torpedo their short term political strength... probably, I think they could definitely convince themselves that such a run would be politically valuable in 2028. A younger politician (as in, not much over 50) may definitely think that was a worthwhile political move to play.

This.

I'll put money on there being a clowncar of candidates in the 2020 Republican primaries, and that you and OG are right that it's not going to be establishment Republicans that lead that field. If anything, Trump has shown that literally anyone can be the conservative nominee for President, and that's going to have an impact.

Who needs a clown car when all we need is Gary Johnson? I bet he'll get a lot more Republican traction in 2020 than he did in 2016.

Ms. Stein just please stay the f*ck out of this.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

Ms. Stein just please stay the f*ck out of this.

The Russians will ensure that's not the case. She won't say no to the wad of money they are going to give her (again)

Jonman wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

While you are right that Republicans saw about a 5% drop in party identification during the first year of Trump's presidency, that doesn't mean those people are lost of the GOP forever. It just means that they don't want to be called a Republican for now. When November 2019 rolls around they're very likely going to cast their vote for Trump again, if only because they hate/fear the Democrats.

I'm sure plenty of them will cast their vote for whoever is the Republican nominee is. If it's Trump, plenty of them will hold their noses and vote for him. But, crucially, not all of them are coming back. And given his razor thin margins in 2016, that could matter.

Yeah hopefully some of the older racist ones will be dead.

Remember back in 2017 when Trump revealed eight different prototypes for his wall? The U.S. Customs and Border Protection tested those prototypes to see which could be breach or scaled and then published an internal report in early 2018.

KPBS in San Diego filed a Freedom of Information Act request to get hold of that report and back in September got a heavily redacted version that showed at least 13 attempts resulted in successful breaches.

Today NBC News obtained unredacted photos from the report. One photo shows a steel slat wall like the kind Trump is now proposing that was breached with common hand tools.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/YW0AHaL.jpg)

When asked about the photo, Trump said that the steel slat wall they tested was designed by previous administrations and that "the wall that we are doing is very, very hard to penetrate." He did not specify which of the eight wall prototypes he had built and tested represented "the wall that we are doing."

The report is also interesting because it revealed that some of the breaching attempts were so successful that they weren't repeated on other prototypes because it was feared they'd overwhelm the prototypes' structural integrity and cause them to collapse. Also, none of the prototypes were tested to see if they could withstand a tunneling attempt.

But apparently none of that should stop us from spending $5 billion on the wall.

OG_slinger wrote:

Remember back in 2017 when Trump revealed eight different prototypes for his wall? The U.S. Customs and Border Protection tested those prototypes to see which could be breach or scaled and then published an internal report in early 2018.

KPBS in San Diego filed a Freedom of Information Act request to get hold of that report and back in September got a heavily redacted version that showed at least 13 attempts resulted in successful breaches.

Today NBC News obtained unredacted photos from the report. One photo shows a steel slat wall like the kind Trump is now proposing that was breached with common hand tools.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/YW0AHaL.jpg)

When asked about the photo, Trump said that the steel slat wall they tested was designed by previous administrations and that "the wall that we are doing is very, very hard to penetrate." He did not specify which of the eight wall prototypes he had built and tested represented "the wall that we are doing."

The report is also interesting because it revealed that some of the breaching attempts were so successful that they weren't repeated on other prototypes because it was feared they'd overwhelm the prototypes' structural integrity and cause them to collapse. Also, none of the prototypes were tested to see if they could withstand a tunneling attempt.

But apparently none of that should stop us from spending $5 billion on the wall.

Having witnessed the power of specialized breeching tools first hand, I laughed out loud when the Adminstration said SEALs couldn’t breech the prototypes.

Reaper81 wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Remember back in 2017 when Trump revealed eight different prototypes for his wall? The U.S. Customs and Border Protection tested those prototypes to see which could be breach or scaled and then published an internal report in early 2018.

KPBS in San Diego filed a Freedom of Information Act request to get hold of that report and back in September got a heavily redacted version that showed at least 13 attempts resulted in successful breaches.

Today NBC News obtained unredacted photos from the report. One photo shows a steel slat wall like the kind Trump is now proposing that was breached with common hand tools.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/YW0AHaL.jpg)

When asked about the photo, Trump said that the steel slat wall they tested was designed by previous administrations and that "the wall that we are doing is very, very hard to penetrate." He did not specify which of the eight wall prototypes he had built and tested represented "the wall that we are doing."

The report is also interesting because it revealed that some of the breaching attempts were so successful that they weren't repeated on other prototypes because it was feared they'd overwhelm the prototypes' structural integrity and cause them to collapse. Also, none of the prototypes were tested to see if they could withstand a tunneling attempt.

But apparently none of that should stop us from spending $5 billion on the wall.

Having witnessed the power of specialized breeching tools first hand, I laughed out loud when the Adminstration said SEALs couldn’t breech the prototypes.

As a firefighter, it wouldn’t take more than 2 minutes to cut through that either with tools I can and can’t purchase from Home Depot. Really, a K-12 demo blade saw, a Sawzall with a High tp for Demo or metal
Cutting, or well, a determined couple of people with hacksaws could do this.

Sigh...... I bet this happens tomorrow at the end of the day.

Washington (CNN) — South Carolina GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham issued a statement Thursday calling for President Donald Trump to invoke national emergency powers to fund his border wall.
"Speaker (Nancy) Pelosi's refusal to negotiate on funding for a border wall/barrier -- even if the government were to be reopened -- virtually ends the congressional path to funding for a border wall/barrier," Graham said in a statement. "It is time for President Trump to use emergency powers to fund the construction of a border wall/barrier."

Okay, at this point, I have to wonder: is there any information that has come out of the White House that was not a lie? Anything at all?

BlackSheep wrote:
Reaper81 wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Remember back in 2017 when Trump revealed eight different prototypes for his wall? The U.S. Customs and Border Protection tested those prototypes to see which could be breach or scaled and then published an internal report in early 2018.

KPBS in San Diego filed a Freedom of Information Act request to get hold of that report and back in September got a heavily redacted version that showed at least 13 attempts resulted in successful breaches.

Today NBC News obtained unredacted photos from the report. One photo shows a steel slat wall like the kind Trump is now proposing that was breached with common hand tools.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/YW0AHaL.jpg)

When asked about the photo, Trump said that the steel slat wall they tested was designed by previous administrations and that "the wall that we are doing is very, very hard to penetrate." He did not specify which of the eight wall prototypes he had built and tested represented "the wall that we are doing."

The report is also interesting because it revealed that some of the breaching attempts were so successful that they weren't repeated on other prototypes because it was feared they'd overwhelm the prototypes' structural integrity and cause them to collapse. Also, none of the prototypes were tested to see if they could withstand a tunneling attempt.

But apparently none of that should stop us from spending $5 billion on the wall.

Having witnessed the power of specialized breeching tools first hand, I laughed out loud when the Adminstration said SEALs couldn’t breech the prototypes.

As a firefighter, it wouldn’t take more than 2 minutes to cut through that either with tools I can and can’t purchase from Home Depot. Really, a K-12 demo blade saw, a Sawzall with a High tp for Demo or metal
Cutting, or well, a determined couple of people with hacksaws could do this.

Oh no! That’s the kind of wall that I, a Democrat, specifically wanted and asked for!

What a fool I’ve been.

Trump you moron! The greatest walls, and I mean walls that are really great, are made with the bones of the oppressed.

On 2020: My understanding is that the statue of limitations for election interference is five years, and presidential immunity ends when the president leaves office. QED.

BadKen wrote:

Okay, at this point, I have to wonder: is there any information that has come out of the White House that was not a lie? Anything at all?

Given that they started the administration with a blatant and useless lie that they then doubled down on, I'm going to say that the odds for truth don't look too good.

This shutdown/wall thing keeps reaching greater and greater depths of stupidity:

Today he said, he never meant that Mexico would actually pay for the wall...
When during the campaign I would say Mexico is going to pay for [the wall], obviously I never meant they are going to write out a check. I said they are are going to pay for it. They are. They are paying for it w/the incredible [unapproved] deal we made called the USMCA.

But of course...
Trump campaign website, AUGUST 2016: "It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion..."

And Trump's advice on walls from a 2004 commencement address:

Concrats to the Daily Show for tracking this gem down.

And now, in true republican fashion, they’re discussing taking money away from those most in need to fund the wall.

Link

Washington (CNN) — The Trump administration is actively examining using billions of dollars in unspent Defense Department disaster recovery and military construction funds for the construction of a border wall in the event the President declares a national emergency, according to a US official.
In anticipation of a national emergency declaration, the official tells CNN that the Pentagon was asked to provide lists of unspent funds including those earmarked for civil works projects that are part of disaster recovery in Puerto Rico, Texas, California, Florida, and elsewhere. The official said the funds were only recently received. There is more than $13 billion not yet physically spent on the infrastructure repair projects, but that have been promised to these communities.
For instance, more than $2 billion planned for projects in Puerto Rico has not yet been spent. More than $4.5 billion for projects in Texas, including those related to 2017's Hurricane Harvey, has also not been spent.
cheeze_pavilion wrote:

It's a factor, but the Dems just won *huge* in the House. In fact, I wonder if anyone did a "if the House votes were President votes, who would have won the Electoral College." Not a perfect proxy, but probably useful.

Here ya go- from 538.

As a “fun,” day-after-the-election experiment, I decided to add up the total popular vote for the U.S. House in each state, based on ABC News’s tally of votes as of Wednesday afternoon. This isn’t a perfect exercise, by any means.
With those caveats aside, here’s the map you come up with if you count up the popular vote. It ought to look familiar. In fact, it’s the same exact map by which Obama defeated Mitt Romney in 2012, except with Ohio going to Republicans. It would have equated to 314 electoral votes for Democrats and 224 for the GOP.

Also even when he docked 6 points from Democrats' popular vote margins in an effort to roughly simulate a less enthusiastic, more neutral showing for the Dems in 2020, they still won 278-260. Basically, it looks like the blue wall may be back.

With the wall how are they allowing for animal movement but not people movement?

Haha! Like they care about the animals!

JC wrote:

And now, in true republican fashion, they’re discussing taking money away from those most in need to fund the wall.

Link

Washington (CNN) — The Trump administration is actively examining using billions of dollars in unspent Defense Department disaster recovery and military construction funds for the construction of a border wall in the event the President declares a national emergency, according to a US official.
In anticipation of a national emergency declaration, the official tells CNN that the Pentagon was asked to provide lists of unspent funds including those earmarked for civil works projects that are part of disaster recovery in Puerto Rico, Texas, California, Florida, and elsewhere. The official said the funds were only recently received. There is more than $13 billion not yet physically spent on the infrastructure repair projects, but that have been promised to these communities.
For instance, more than $2 billion planned for projects in Puerto Rico has not yet been spent. More than $4.5 billion for projects in Texas, including those related to 2017's Hurricane Harvey, has also not been spent.

This makes me sick. He has got to be stopped before he steals that money. You just know it is earmarked for some civil engineering company that is a Russian front.

LeapingGnome wrote:

With the wall how are they allowing for animal movement but not people movement?

Don't worry, Trump already considered that butterflies can get over his wall, so he's bulldozing the sanctuary.

Seriously though - is the answer there is no accommodation for animal migration?

Lol a completely ineffective and crappy wall would be exactly what a guy like Trump would build. He is exactly the President his supporters deserve.

I know this is sorta naive, but is "we can't come to a governmental agreement on something controversial" a national emergency? Isn't it sorta the way things work? As in, sometimes you get to do what you want and sometimes you don't?

LeapingGnome wrote:

Seriously though - is the answer there is no accommodation for animal migration?

Do the animals have visas?

Seriously though, of course there's no accommodation for animals. Environmental protectionism isn't exactly the M.O. of the Trump Administration.

LeapingGnome wrote:

Seriously though - is the answer there is no accommodation for animal migration?

I've found several articles detailing the potentially catastrophic effects this could have multiple species.

I've found absolutely nothing suggesting the administration has even acknowledged this issue, much less made any plans to mitigate the damage. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Personally, I just can't imagine most Trump supporters caring. Actually it's worse than that. Anyone who mentions this concern is probably a tree-hugging un-American commie liberal to them and listening to them whine about the animals would make them want to kill off a few weak and worthless species just to put them in their place. And if Trump's base doesn't care, he doesn't care.

LeapingGnome wrote:

Seriously though - is the answer there is no accommodation for animal migration?

To the best of my knowledge, no, there are no accommodations for animals.

Animals? You mean those things that White Jesus created solely for us to exploit? Why would they effect immigration policy? They aren’t people. /s