[Discussion] Hope to Remember The Trump Administration Thread as being 'transparent and honest'

Let's follow and discuss what our newest presidential administration gets up to, the good, the bad, the lawsuits, and the many many indictments.

If I read correctly there are two problems. First the states couldn’t show that government officials and such are staying at Trump properties with the goal of influencing Trump. They might just like the place. Secondly they seemed to say that even if that could be proven, it just wouldn’t be possible to stop prevent the attempt to influence Trump with financial gifts, so it isn’t worth even bothering about it anyway.

absurddoctor wrote:

If I read correctly there are two problems. First the states couldn’t show that government officials and such are staying at Trump properties with the goal of influencing Trump. They might just like the place. Secondly they seemed to say that even if that could be proven, it just wouldn’t be possible to stop prevent the attempt to influence Trump with financial gifts, so it isn’t worth even bothering about it anyway.

Well, f*ck it then. Whomever is next in office should just do whatever the hell they feel. We’re absolutely an oligarchy in the Russian style, only with fancier clothing.

BlackSheep wrote:
absurddoctor wrote:

If I read correctly there are two problems. First the states couldn’t show that government officials and such are staying at Trump properties with the goal of influencing Trump. They might just like the place. Secondly they seemed to say that even if that could be proven, it just wouldn’t be possible to stop prevent the attempt to influence Trump with financial gifts, so it isn’t worth even bothering about it anyway.

Well, f*ck it then. Whomever is next in office should just do whatever the hell they feel. We’re absolutely an oligarchy in the Russian style, only with fancier clothing.

Still have to remove Presidential Term Limits and Gerrymander the house a bit more to enshrine the one-party state. But the supreme court said that's ok, so it won't be long.

Mixolyde wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:
absurddoctor wrote:

If I read correctly there are two problems. First the states couldn’t show that government officials and such are staying at Trump properties with the goal of influencing Trump. They might just like the place. Secondly they seemed to say that even if that could be proven, it just wouldn’t be possible to stop prevent the attempt to influence Trump with financial gifts, so it isn’t worth even bothering about it anyway.

Well, f*ck it then. Whomever is next in office should just do whatever the hell they feel. We’re absolutely an oligarchy in the Russian style, only with fancier clothing.

Still have to remove Presidential Term Limits and Gerrymander the house a bit more to enshrine the one-party state. But the supreme court said that's ok, so it won't be long.

I won’t be surprised if Trump simply refuses to leave office and demands recounts and claims voter fraud. Half of that equation is complete. He’s already trampled a

Mixolyde wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:
absurddoctor wrote:

If I read correctly there are two problems. First the states couldn’t show that government officials and such are staying at Trump properties with the goal of influencing Trump. They might just like the place. Secondly they seemed to say that even if that could be proven, it just wouldn’t be possible to stop prevent the attempt to influence Trump with financial gifts, so it isn’t worth even bothering about it anyway.

Well, f*ck it then. Whomever is next in office should just do whatever the hell they feel. We’re absolutely an oligarchy in the Russian style, only with fancier clothing.

Still have to remove Presidential Term Limits and Gerrymander the house a bit more to enshrine the one-party state. But the supreme court said that's ok, so it won't be long.

I feel we’re already there. Sure, it’s a rotating president, but every time a Republican takes office, they drop the tax rate which has always disproportionately affected the rich, point fingers at the democrats for spending too much after doing so, take contributions from those corporation and business leaders that benefitted from the break, and entrench these corporations even more into our government (and particularly the military industrial complex, which I feel really kick started this latest cycle).

When a democrat takes office, they’re afraid of raising the rates because of optics... and by the time they do, it gets them booted from office and a republican comes back around to simply erode every tax hike they enacted anyway.

Everyone talks about capital gains and lalalala, but there are so many other taxes that need reviewing - the inheritance tax, the gas tax, corporate taxes certainly, and finding a more effective way to tax asset holders.

The worker used to be the cornerstone of the economy; now it is the asset holder.

F'n Trump is expected to announce an executive order to add the citizenship question to the census today.

What
the
actual
F?

So much for checks and balances.

GOP is party over country.

Why still fight this? Isn't it already too late? I thought the forms were being printed sometime last week?

ranalin wrote:

Why still fight this? Isn't it already too late? I thought the forms were being printed sometime last week?

That's what they told the court. And it's not like the lawyers were told to lie to the court, right?

ranalin wrote:

Why still fight this? Isn't it already too late? I thought the forms were being printed sometime last week?

Meat for the base, though I can't see it surviving a lawsuit. It seems like it's just Trump's lackeys trying to appease him by drawing up an EO when they know it won't succeed.

And with Americans' short attention spans I'm not sure how useful this will be for Trump's campaign next year.

And let's not forget that first Trump is having a "summit" on social media with a bunch of alt-right, horrible people and then they're all going to march over to the Rose Garden and announce his EO. Trump will literally have a collection of bigots, racists, anti-Semites, and other horrors standing behind him as he makes this announcement

yeah... nothing wrong at all with this.

ranalin wrote:

Why still fight this? Isn't it already too late? I thought the forms were being printed sometime last week?

Addendums are a thing. (Addenda? Addendi?)

It's pure pageantry. The EO will immediately be challenged (i would be surprised if the briefs aren't already done and ready to be filed the moment he announces it) and pretty much any injunction will push well past when the printing presses have to be running to print 300 million pieces of paper. The question in my mind is whether they feel it's worth the risk of having the entire census being invalidated for use restructuring districts to put the question on. To rephrase: do they think an honest census will be more damaging than no census at all?

thrawn82 wrote:

It's pure pageantry. The EO will immediately be challenged (i would be surprised if the briefs aren't already done and ready to be filed the moment he announces it) and pretty much any injunction will push well past when the printing presses have to be running to print 300 million pieces of paper. The question in my mind is whether they feel it's worth the risk of having the entire census being invalidated for use restructuring districts to put the question on. To rephrase: do they think an honest census will be more damaging than no census at all?

That's a great point. But we have to remember that this administration isn't play 12-D chess. They are a chimpanzee playing with poo.

Jonman wrote:
ranalin wrote:

Why still fight this? Isn't it already too late? I thought the forms were being printed sometime last week?

Addendums are a thing. (Addenda? Addendi?)

300 million addenda that also need to be mailed to every single household in the US is quite an undertaking.

In losing legal battles over census, Trump may win political war

Trump also said on Friday that although census forms are already being printed, the government could later produce “an addendum.”

It is not clear how that might work, but census experts said it would be an unprecedented disruption to a process that has been in motion for years.

“Any suggestion that on a moment’s notice the Census Bureau could add an extra piece of paper with an additional question to a census that it has been planning literally for a decade demonstrates a breathtaking ignorance of what it takes to pull off a census,” said Terri Ann Lowenthal, a census consultant.

A breathtaking ignorance

Yeah, this is pretty much the modus operandi of this administration.

Nevin73 wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

It's pure pageantry. The EO will immediately be challenged (i would be surprised if the briefs aren't already done and ready to be filed the moment he announces it) and pretty much any injunction will push well past when the printing presses have to be running to print 300 million pieces of paper. The question in my mind is whether they feel it's worth the risk of having the entire census being invalidated for use restructuring districts to put the question on. To rephrase: do they think an honest census will be more damaging than no census at all?

That's a great point. But we have to remember that this administration isn't play 12-D chess. They are a chimpanzee playing with poo.

Well by 'they' i was referring less to the administration and more to the senate GOP/federalist society/Kock affiliated groups, who are indeed playing 4-d chess and using The Idiot President as a piece.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that Trump's announcement from the Rose Garden will mention the start of ICE raids as well.

I don't think this is a meaningless play at all, it is a direct assault, and I believe will be an effective assault, on one of the greatest threats to GoP political power: an accurate census.

This is a successful attack regardless of whether the question actually gets added, because the question doesn't actually need to be on the census to scare people into not answering the census accurately. Every push for misusing the census is one that a new set of people will hear about and cause them to be concerned.

People are going to have heard snippets of this fight but not be confident that it was struck down, or they'll worry that even without that question this whole fight means that they will use the other questions nefariously, or they'll just think "man this whole thing has been really politicized, so I'll skip it this time". People will just trust it less, and that's going to help the GoP.

There are more extreme possible scenarios, for example doing things to cause court battles to delay the delivery, or the processing of the census (even if it's just an excuse "oh the lawyers said we couldn't open all the boxes of results until the court battle was done" lawyers: "no we didn't") to buy the GoP one more election in some jurisdictions with old maps. But even in a scenario where this is all bluster and the census goes out and comes in on time, without this question, there is real damage that has been done.

Assuming the question somehow gets added, it would be great if everyone could be organized enough to NOT answer just that question.

Alternatively. I’d like to answer that I don’t feel like an American citizen given this administration’s actions.

Everything I saw early today was speculation about trump using an executive order to f*ck over the courts and the legislature but now every news site is talking about

House panel OK's 12 subpoenas for Trump associates, including Kushner, National Enquirer executives

A House panel approved subpoenas for a dozen aides and associates of President Donald Trump on Thursday, seeking information about everything from Russian interference to hush-money payments he made in the months leading up to the 2016 election.

The House Judiciary Committee voted 21 to 12 to authorize subpoenas to Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner; former chief of staff John Kelly and David Pecker, the CEO of the company that owned the National Enquirer. Lawmakers are seeking information about what they described as possible corruption and obstruction by Trump and his administration.

Subpoenas are proving useless as they’re simply ignored or effectively blocked via the claim of executive privilege.

Like trump's actions they are mostly for the base to feel their side is doing something.

farley3k wrote:

Everything I saw early today was speculation about trump using an executive order to f*ck over the courts and the legislature but now every news site is talking about

House panel OK's 12 subpoenas for Trump associates, including Kushner, National Enquirer executives

A House panel approved subpoenas for a dozen aides and associates of President Donald Trump on Thursday, seeking information about everything from Russian interference to hush-money payments he made in the months leading up to the 2016 election.

The House Judiciary Committee voted 21 to 12 to authorize subpoenas to Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner; former chief of staff John Kelly and David Pecker, the CEO of the company that owned the National Enquirer. Lawmakers are seeking information about what they described as possible corruption and obstruction by Trump and his administration.

Brilliant. The opposition needs to have something locked and loaded every time Trump schedules another big public lie announcement.

thrawn82 wrote:

To rephrase: do they think an honest census will be more damaging than no census at all?

The GOP thinks any census will damage them. And they're right.

The GOP--as it exists today--is already living on borrowed time. It's a political party whose power comes from getting 90%+ of its votes from (mostly older) white people living in a country where the under 18 population is now less than 50% white.

Every presidential election cycle the American electorate gets about 2% less white and, as we saw with the 2018 midterms, it's already at the point for Republicans that if any white voter group, say suburban women, don't vote for them they're f*cked. And it will get worse for them every election moving forward.

Screwing with the census buys them another couple elections where they can gerrymander and voter suppress their way into power (and use that political power to try to stay in power). But even that won't work forever. And they know it.

But the GOP also knows they'll lose a lot of the voters they currently have if they even talk about opening the party up to non-whites.

OG_slinger wrote:

Every presidential election cycle the American electorate gets about 2% less white

In practice this just seems to mean that every election the Republicans need to do 2% more voter suppression and gerrymandering.

Yonder wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Every presidential election cycle the American electorate gets about 2% less white

In practice this just seems to mean that every election the Republicans need to do 2% more voter suppression and gerrymandering.

2% is roughly 4.7 million votes. 2016 turned on 78,000 votes in three states.

By 2024, the GOP would have to suppress or gerrymander 10 million votes. By 2028 it would be15+ million votes.

There's only so many votes the GOP can suppress. And it will become increasingly difficult for them to gerrymander districts so a shrinking population of (conservative) white voters can win a majority of districts while simultaneously not making any of them competitive.

JC wrote:

F'n Trump is expected to announce an executive order to add the citizenship question to the census today.

What
the
actual
F?

Trump abandons effort to add citizenship question to census

Politico wrote:

The Trump administration is dropping its efforts to include a citizenship question on the 2020 census following a Supreme Court ruling, President Donald Trump will announce Thursday afternoon, a senior administration official confirmed.

Instead, the president is expected to direct his administration to obtain citizenship data through other means. The move caps more than a week of conflicting messages from the White House over how it would proceed on the issue after the Supreme Court blocked the Trump administration from including the citizenship question on the decennial form.

As recently as Thursday morning, Trump had been expected to take executive action directing his officials to add the question to the census, a step that would have come just days after the Justice Department said it would abide by the Supreme Court ruling. The Trump administration has already begun printing census questionnaires without the question.

Let's see if he changes his mind again before he's supposed to announce this at 5PM.

OG_slinger wrote:
Yonder wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Every presidential election cycle the American electorate gets about 2% less white

In practice this just seems to mean that every election the Republicans need to do 2% more voter suppression and gerrymandering.

2% is roughly 4.7 million votes. 2016 turned on 78,000 votes in three states.

By 2024, the GOP would have to suppress or gerrymander 10 million votes. By 2028 it would be15+ million votes.

That's kind of the whole point of the gerrymandering, though. It gets close to impossible to disenfranchise or suppress too many votes, so they shift lines to make them count for less. Increase the area that gets the young, urban vote, and make more smaller racist zones, you can count all of the colored votes and not give them any more power. Hell, you can even pat yourself on the back for making voting easier in the newly-tailored district - that ought to shut the libs up. With the Supreme Court essentially f*cked for the next 20-40 years, there is not going to be meaningful elections - maybe ever again - if the Republicans keep control of things.

With the cap on the House numbers, populous states get less representation, so the 2% of the whole country isn't a useful value. It's the mid-small cities where gerrymandering will stay useful for a long, long time, and it will ruin our country.

The FUD generated to discourage people from filling out the census is also part of the plan.

One of the plaintiffs in the census case has asked the judge to order the Commerce department to aggressively counter the disinformation coming from the President of the United States. That is the state of affairs we are living in.

Mixolyde wrote:

The FUD generated to discourage people from filling out the census is also part of the plan.

It's the entirety of the plan.