[Discussion] Separating and/or Detaining Families at the US-Mexico Border

Just figured we could collect this mess in one thread.

I always wince when otherwise 'objective' articles use "crush of migration" or similar phrases.

bnpederson wrote:

I always wince when otherwise 'objective' articles use "crush of migration" or similar phrases.

It's almost like deliberately destabilizing South American countries, cutting off foreign aid, ramping up harsh genocidal practices at the border, and locking up people we don't need to lock up, have lead to problems. The number of people being detained at the border is way up...partially because they dipped relatively low under Obama, partially because the border patrol and ice have gotten harsher about locking people up, partially because asylum claims are being treated inappropriately, and partially because the US-backed coups and violence in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras have lead to horrific ongoing violence and gang murders.

It doesn't really need to be a crisis, but we've chosen to spend billions to erect a wall and do other useless things, rather spend than a mere handful of millions on actually helping people.

Fun fact: our current Attorney General was part of the cover-up of sending military aid to the right-wing rebels and terrorists in the exact region that is experiencing violence right now.


One misconception that I think can be related to all of this is the way that most people think about castles is all wrong. A medieval castle wasn't a bulwark that prevented invaders from advancing any further. Instead, they were part of a defense in depth: since they were hard to capture, the invaders would have to contend with military forces striking them from the rear if they bypassed them. The Hundred Years War is one example of how that dynamic played out.

The proper way to conduct a defense in depth is to actually use the depth, so if we actually wanted to reduce immigration attempts, we should be providing aid to the people in South America. And maybe not privatize their industries in ways that solely benefit e.g. American oil companies.

Fun fact: the Great Wall of China operated the exact same way: it didn't do that much to prevent invaders from coming in (since it had to be manned to actually stop anyone) but it did help to prevent them escaping back out with the loot. Sometimes. There were still plenty of successful incursions. The Wall became irrelevant when Ming dynasty (who built the Wall) was invaded from the north and the conquerors became the Qing dynasty--who controlled a lot of new territory north of the Wall. And they didn't siege the wall--they were let inside to help fight internal rebels.

A wall on our border will ultimately only serve to keep people from leaving the United States, because border fortification on that scale only works to keep things in, not out. Think the Berlin Wall.

Static strategic entrenchments for direct defense are a pretty universal failure in history. Another famous example is the Maginot Line, which was irrelevant to the actual war that was fought, and always would have been, no matter how long it was.

For preventing migration, they're a really expensive and ineffective solution.

Watchdog finds detainees 'standing on toilets' for breathing room at border facility holding 900 people in space meant for 125

CNN wrote:

The Department of Homeland Security's Inspector General has found "dangerous overcrowding" and unsanitary conditions at an El Paso, Texas, Border Patrol processing facility following an unannounced inspection, according to a new report.

The IG found "standing room only conditions" at the El Paso Del Norte Processing Center, which has a maximum capacity of 125 migrants. On May 7 and 8, logs indicated that there were "approximately 750 and 900 detainees, respectively."

"We also observed detainees standing on toilets in the cells to make room and gain breathing space, thus limiting access to the toilets," the report states. The report was first obtained by CNN.

A cell with a maximum capacity of 12 held 76 detainees, another with a maximum capacity of eight held 41, and another with a maximum capacity of 35 held 155, according to the report.

"(Customs and Border Protection) was struggling to maintain hygienic conditions in the holding cells. With limited access to showers and clean clothing, detainees were wearing soiled clothing for days or weeks," the report states.

"Corrective action is critical to the immediate health and safety needs of detainees, who cannot continue to be held in standing-room-only conditions for weeks until additional tents are constructed," the report adds.

Botched family reunifications left migrant children waiting in vans overnight

NBC News wrote:

Under the blistering Texas sun last July, 37 migrant children boarded vans for what was supposed to be a 30-minute ride. At the end of the road from Harlingen to Los Fresnos lay the promise of hugs, kisses and long overdue reunification with their parents, from whom they were taken when the Trump administration began systematically separating migrant families who crossed the border illegally.

But when the children, all between 5 and 12 years old, arrived at Immigration and Customs Enforcement's adults-only Port Isabel Detention Center, rather than seeing their parents, they saw a parking lot full of vans just like theirs, with children from other facilities who, just like them, were waiting to be processed and reunified with their parents.

It was 2:30 p.m. on Sunday, July 15, 2018.

Not until 39 hours later — after two nights in a van — did the last child step out of a van to be reunited. Most spent at least 23 hours in the vehicles.

It is one of the little-known stories of the chaotic efforts to reunify children following the end of President Trump's "zero tolerance" policy. NBC News has obtained emails sent between employees of BCFS Health and Human Services, the government contractor and nonprofit organization responsible for transporting the children, who were frustrated by the lack of preparation by ICE, and senior leadership at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).


Despite two notifications from HHS that the children would be arriving, ICE officers kept to their regular schedule, clocking out for the day while the parking lot filled with children eager to see their parents again. There was no one present to greet the arriving children and they were not equipped to process them in a parking lot, the BCFS official told NBC News, describing the scene as "hurried disarray."

Trump administration cancels English classes, soccer, legal aid for unaccompanied child migrants in U.S. shelters

WaPo wrote:

The Trump administration is canceling English classes, recreational programs, and legal aid for unaccompanied minors staying in federal migrant shelters nationwide, saying the immigration influx at the southern border has created critical budget pressures.

The Office of Refugee Resettlement has begun discontinuing the funding stream for activities – including soccer – that have been deemed “not directly necessary for the protection of life and safety, including education services, legal services, and recreation,” said U.S. Health and Human Services spokesman Mark Weber.

Federal officials have warned Congress that they are facing “a dramatic spike” in unaccompanied minors at the southern border and have asked Congress for $2.9 billion in emergency funding to expand shelters and care. The program could run out of money in late June, and the agency is legally obligated to direct funding to essential services, Weber said.

The move – revealed in an email an HHS official sent to licensed shelters last week, a message that has been obtained by The Washington Post – could run afoul of a federal court settlement and state licensing requirements that mandate education and recreation for minors in federal custody. Carlos Holguin, a lawyer who represents minors in a long-running lawsuit that spurred a 1997 federal court settlement that sets basic standards of care for children in custody, immediately slammed the cuts as illegal.

“We’ll see them in court if they go through with it,” Holguin said. “What’s next? Drinking water? Food? . . . Where are they going to stop?”

More than 40,800 unaccompanied children have been placed into HHS custody after crossing the U.S.-Mexico border this year, a 57 percent increase from last year that is putting ORR on track to care for the largest number of minors in the program’s history. Federal law requires the Department of Homeland Security to move unaccompanied minors from austere border jails to more child-appropriate shelters, and they must do so swiftly.

An average of 12,500 children and youths were held in federal shelters nationwide in April, according to HHS. They stayed an average of 48 days until a case worker could place them with a sponsor, usually a relative. While they wait in the shelters, minors attend school, study math and English, and participate in extracurricular activities such as ping-pong, soccer or other sports.

Most of the minors are teenagers fleeing violence and poverty in Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador.

An HHS official sent an email Thursday to shelters across the country notifying them that the government will not pay for education or recreational activities retroactive to May 22, including related personnel costs. The official characterized those costs as “unallowable.”

Holguin said schooling and exercise are “fundamental to the care of youngsters.”

A shelter employee who spoke on the condition of anonymity to address the internal government directive, said the Trump administration’s cuts have alarmed workers, who fear the quality of care for the children will suffer. The employee said the classes and sports activities are crucial to maintaining physical and mental health while the children are in custody.

“What are you going to do all day?” the shelter employee said. “If you’re not going to have any sort of organized recreation or physical activity, what are you going to do, just let them sit in their rooms?”

The efforts are only "chaotic" because they deliberately refused to keep records before they started.

We've got a series of concentration camps on our southern border, entirely as a result of a crisis we manufactured. Because of the way concentration camps work, they are sliding towards being death camps: at first by neglect and lack of resources, later by deliberate policies, hopefully not by direct action.

Speaking of neglect...

Border Patrol is confiscating migrant kids' medicine, U.S. doctors say

Yahoo News wrote:

For the past year and a half, Dr. Eric Russell has been traveling from Houston to McAllen, Texas, every three months or so to volunteer at the Catholic Charities Humanitarian Respite Center, a first stop for many asylum-seeking migrants who’ve been released by U.S. Customs and Border Protection in the Rio Grande Valley.

During his most recent visit to the clinic in April, when he saw more than 150 migrants, he noted a troubling new trend: a number of people reported that their medication had been taken from them by U.S. border officials.

“I had a few adults that came who had high blood pressure, who had their blood pressure medications taken from them and, not surprisingly, their blood pressure was elevated,” Russell told Yahoo News. “There was a couple of adults that had diabetes that had their diabetes medicines taken from them, and wanted to come in because they were worried about their blood sugar. And, not surprisingly, their blood sugar was elevated.”

For Russell, a pediatric emergency medicine physician, the patient who stood out the most during that visit was a boy of 8 or 9 with a history of seizures. According to his mother, the child had been on a long-term seizure medicine in their home country, but the medication had been taken from him upon entering the Border Patrol custody in McAllen and never returned.

“The mom came to the clinic because she was concerned that he was going to have a seizure,” said Russell. He wasn’t sure exactly how long they’d been in custody — “usually it's a matter of days,” he said, “but with seizure medicines, that’s enough.”

Fortunately, by the time they made contact with Russell, the boy had not yet had a seizure. But like most asylum-seeking families who pass through the respite center and other shelters like it along the border, McAllen was not their final destination but a stop along the journey — usually by bus — to join relatives or other sponsors elsewhere in the country.

“My concern is, what’s going to happen if you put a 9-year-old child who has a history of seizures, without any seizure medicine on a bus for 3 days ... is that he’s going to have a seizure,” Russell said.

Russell added that he can understand the need for a policy regarding the use of outside medication by detainees. However, he said, “At the end of the day, as a medical provider, as a physician, we take an oath to first do no harm. And taking somebody’s medications seems like it’s causing harm.”

“Somebody’s going to get hurt, if they haven’t already,” he added. “Or frankly, someone could die.”

Is there a difference between Japanese internment camps during WW2 and these immigrant shelters? I mean how they are run.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

Is there a difference between Japanese internment camps during WW2 and these immigrant shelters? I mean how they are run.

Edit: Didn't even realize I typed this, I misread the question. Apologies.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

Is there a difference between Japanese internment camps during WW2 and these immigrant shelters? I mean how they are run.

The government kept families together in the Japanese concentration camps...

Both are/were pretty slapdash affairs with the government committing to a policy without making sure they could execute it. We temporarily housed Japanese in converted horse racing stables and livestock stockyards at fairgrounds for months because the main camps weren't built by the time the government decided the Japanese had to be moved. And even at the permanent camps the government forgot to plan for how they were going to educate the 60,000+ children they were locking up (and didn't even think to create a budget for doing so).

Also note that a large majority of "Japanese" interned during World War II were actually American citizens. It is one of the most shameful, disgustingly racist episodes in American history.

Aetius wrote:

It is one of the most shameful, disgustingly racist episodes in American history.

Too many American citizens: Hold my beer...

DHS watchdog finds expired food, dilapidated bathrooms amid 'egregious' conditions at ICE facilities in 2018

CNN wrote:

The Department of Homeland Security inspector general found expired food and dilapidated bathrooms during unannounced visits to four immigrant detention facilities in 2018, according to a report released Thursday.

The kitchen at one facility was in such poor shape -- with open packages of raw chicken leaking blood over refrigeration units -- that the kitchen manager was replaced while the IG inspection was ongoing.

The report describes conditions at facilities last year, but it comes amid a worsening situation along the US-Mexico border, where the number of migrants crossing the border illegally has surpassed previous years. The dramatic increase in arrivals -- the majority of whom are families and children -- has overwhelmed the Department of Homeland Security, including Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the agency reviewed in the latest report.


Prior to this year's surge of migrants, some of ICE's facilities were not up to standard, according to the new IG report. Between May and November 2018, the inspector general visited four ICE facilities: Adelanto ICE Processing Center in California; LaSalle ICE Processing Center in Louisiana; Essex County Correctional Facility in New Jersey; and Aurora ICE Processing Center in Colorado -- facilities that in total can hold nearly 5,000 detainees.

"Although the conditions varied among the facilities and not every problem was present at each, our observations, interviews with detainees and staff, and reviews of documents revealed several persistent issues," the report reads.

The IG observed unsanitary conditions in the bathrooms at the Adelanto and Essex facilities during their surprise visit. "[W]e observed detainee bathrooms that were in poor condition, including mold and peeling paint on walls, floors, and showers, and unusable toilets," the report reads.

Other issues raised include spoiled food, lack of provisions, like lotion, that is required for detainees, and strip searches with no documented justification. The report notes that ICE detainees "are held in civil, not criminal, custody, which is not supposed to be punitive."

All four facilities had "food service issues."

"At Essex, the food handling in general was so substandard that ICE and facility leadership had the kitchen manager replaced during our inspection," the report reads. At that facility, the IG found open packages of raw chicken leaking blood over refrigeration units, lunch meat that appeared spoiled, and moldy bread.

Time: Trump Administration to Hold Migrant Children at Base That Served as WWII Japanese Internment Camp

The Trump Administration has opted to use an Army base in Oklahoma to hold growing numbers of immigrant children in its custody after running out of room at government shelters.

Fort Sill, an 150-year-old installation once used as an internment camp for Japanese-Americans during World War II, has been selected to detain 1,400 children until they can be given to an adult relative, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

The agency said Fort Sill will be used “as a temporary emergency influx shelter” to help ease the burden on the government as it prepares to house a record number of minors even though it already operates about 168 facilities and programs in 23 states.

LA Times Op-ed: Call immigrant detention centers what they really are: concentration camps

If you were paying close attention last week, you might have spotted a pattern in the news. Peeking out from behind the breathless coverage of the Trump family’s tuxedoed trip to London was a spate of deaths of immigrants in U.S. custody: Johana Medina Léon, a 25-year-old transgender asylum seeker; an unnamed 33-year-old Salvadoran man; and a 40-year-old woman from Honduras.

Photos from a Border Patrol processing center in El Paso showed people herded so tightly into cells that they had to stand on toilets to breathe. Memos surfaced by journalist Ken Klippenstein revealed that Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s failure to provide medical care was responsible for suicides and other deaths of detainees. These followed another report that showed that thousands of detainees are being brutally held in isolation cells just for being transgender or mentally ill.

Also last week, the Trump administration cut funding for classes, recreation and legal aid at detention centers holding minors — which were likened to “summer camps” by a senior ICE official last year. And there was the revelation that months after being torn from their parents’ arms, 37 children were locked in vans for up to 39 hours in the parking lot of a detention center outside Port Isabel, Texas. In the last year, at least seven migrant children have died in federal custody.

Preventing mass outrage at a system like this takes work. Certainly it helps that the news media covers these horrors intermittently rather than as snowballing proof of a racist, lawless administration. But most of all, authorities prevail when the places where people are being tortured and left to die stay hidden, misleadingly named and far from prying eyes.

There’s a name for that kind of system. They’re called concentration camps. You might balk at my use of the term. That’s good — it’s something to be balked at.

AP: Jury can’t decide on charges against Arizona border activist

TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) — A U.S. jury could not reach a verdict Tuesday against a border activist charged with conspiracy to transport and harbor migrants in a trial that humanitarian aid groups said would have wide implications on their work.

Defense attorneys argued that Scott Daniel Warren, a 36-year-old college geography instructor, was simply being kind by providing two migrants with water, food and lodging when he was arrested in early 2018. He faced up to 20 years in prison.

But prosecutors maintained the men were not in distress and Warren conspired to transport and harbor them at a property used for providing aid to migrants in an Arizona town near the U.S.-Mexico border.

The case played out as humanitarian groups say they are coming under increasing scrutiny under President Donald Trump’s hardline immigration policies.

Outside the courthouse, Warren thanked his supporters and criticized the government’s efforts to crack down on the number of immigrants coming to the U.S.

“Today it remains as necessary as ever for local residents and humanitarian aid volunteers to stand in solidarity with migrants and refugees, and we must also stand for our families, friends and neighbors in the very land itself most threatened by the militarization of our borderland communities,” Warren said.

Premature Baby Found in Overcrowded Border Patrol Facility in Texas

The teenage girl with pigtail braids was hunched over in a wheelchair and holding a bunched sweatshirt when an immigrant advocate met her at a crowded Border Patrol facility in Texas.

She opened the sweatshirt and the advocate gasped. It was a tiny baby, born premature, being held in detention instead of where she believes she should have been — a hospital neonatal unit.

Texas Monthly: In El Paso, Border Patrol Is Detaining Migrants in ‘a Human Dog Pound’
Immigration officials have resumed the much-criticized practice of keeping people outdoors for weeks to relieve dangerous overcrowding.

After New Mexico State University professor Neal Rosendorf read a government report exposing dangerous overcrowding of detained migrants at the Paso del Norte International Bridge in El Paso, he headed to the port of entry to see if he could find anyone protesting conditions there. When he reached the west side of the bridge, he encountered an unmarked open gate, which he walked through in the hopes of asking Border Patrol agents whether they had seen any protesters. Continuing underneath and then past the bridge about 100 yards or so, he was stunned by what he saw—migrants who said they’d been held outdoors for weeks as temperatures rose to nearly 100 degrees.

Rosendorf described it as “a human dog pound”—one hundred to 150 men behind a chain-link fence, huddled beneath makeshift shelters made from mylar blankets and whatever other scraps they could find to shield themselves from the heat of the sun. “I was able to speak with detainees and take photos of them with their permission,” Rosendorf said in an email. “They told me they’ve been incarcerated outside for a month, that they haven’t washed or been able to change the clothes they were detained in the entire time, and that they’re being poorly fed and treated in general.”

U.S. Customs and Border Protection took eight days to respond to Texas Monthly’s questions about Rosendorf’s discovery. In a statement this week, a CBP official acknowledged that the agency was detaining migrants outdoors for extended periods.

El Paso isn't the only place this is happening. They keep people in these 'dog pounds' for a while, and then move them to 'the freezer'.

Expect fewer stories about the conditions in these camps in the future, once the shift to warehousing people on military bases is complete.

NPR: Trump Threatens To Deport 'Millions,' As He Kicks Off Campaign For Reelection

On the day of his self-declared presidential campaign kickoff, President Trump is threatening to deport "millions" of immigrants in the United States illegally beginning "next week."

Feds Tell 9th Circuit: Detained Kids ‘Safe and Sanitary’ Without Soap

SAN FRANCISCO (CN) – The Trump administration argued in front of a Ninth Circuit panel Tuesday that the government is not required to give soap or toothbrushes to children apprehended at the U.S.-Mexico border and can have them sleep on concrete floors in frigid, overcrowded cells, despite a settlement agreement that requires detainees be kept in “safe and sanitary” facilities.

All three judges appeared incredulous during the hearing in San Francisco, in which the Trump administration challenged previous legal findings that it is violating a landmark class action settlement by mistreating undocumented immigrant children at U.S. detention facilities.

“You’re really going to stand up and tell us that being able to sleep isn’t a question of safe and sanitary conditions?'” U.S. Circuit Judge Marsha Berzon asked the Justice Department’s Sarah Fabian Tuesday.

Attorneys: Texas border facility is neglecting migrant kids

AP wrote:

EL PASO, Texas (AP) — A 2-year-old boy locked in detention wants to be held all the time. A few girls, ages 10 to 15, say they’ve been doing their best to feed and soothe the clingy toddler who was handed to them by a guard days ago. Lawyers warn that kids are taking care of kids, and there’s inadequate food, water and sanitation for the 250 infants, children and teens at the Border Patrol station.


Data obtained by The Associated Press showed that on Wednesday there were three infants in the station, all with their teen mothers, along with a 1-year-old, two 2-year-olds and a 3-year-old. There are dozens more under 12. Fifteen have the flu, and 10 more are quarantined.

Three girls told attorneys they were trying to take care of the 2-year-old boy, who had wet his pants and had no diaper and was wearing a mucus-smeared shirt when the legal team encountered him.

“A Border Patrol agent came in our room with a 2-year-old boy and asked us, ‘Who wants to take care of this little boy?’ Another girl said she would take care of him, but she lost interest after a few hours and so I started taking care of him yesterday,” one of the girls said in an interview with attorneys.


But children at the facility in Clint, which sits amid the desert scrubland some 25 miles (40 kilometers) southeast of El Paso, say they have had to pick up some of the duties in watching over the younger kids.

A 14-year-old girl from Guatemala said she had been holding two little girls in her lap.

“I need comfort, too. I am bigger than they are, but I am a child, too,” she said.

Children told lawyers that they were fed oatmeal, a cookie and a sweetened drink in the morning, instant noodles for lunch and a burrito and cookie for dinner. There are no fruits or vegetables. They said they’d gone weeks without bathing or a clean change of clothes.

If this was a movie they'd have military forces of the "good guys" taking out all the guards at the concentration camp and rescuing all these abused and neglected kids to take them all back to the safety of their families. Where are the good guys in this scenario? It's certainly not the U.S.

This thread makes my blood boil every time I read it. It's utterly inhumane and evil what they're doing. I could f*cking spit.

Kehama wrote:

If this was a movie they'd have military forces of the "good guys" taking out all the guards at the concentration camp and rescuing all these abused and neglected kids to take them all back to the safety of their families. Where are the good guys in this scenario? It's certainly not the U.S.

Writing prompt: badass sicario learns his niece is in a camp and how she’s been treated...

The New Yorker had a Q&A with a lawyer from a small team that recently interviewed children being detained in Clint, TX. It's the horror show you'd expect when 350 young kids are crammed into a facility designed to hold 104.

The lawyer had several stomach-turning stories, but this one was the worst:

CNN sent reporters to a diner in Arizona to see what all the economically anxious people there thought about the government running concentration camps for children.

I don't know about you, but I just can't get enough news reports where people freely get to spout racist sh*t and where the reporters never ask the simple question "What would you do to protect your children and make a better life for them?"

"I blame it on the parents for letting it happen because they bring them up and know they can't get across there legally," said Ron Carroll, a 69-year-old resident of Mesa, Arizona.


"[Trump] should enforce the laws like he's doing, and our Congress needs to abide by the laws and follow the laws and enforce the laws.* Not go against our President," he said.


"Like I said earlier, it's the parents that bring them up, and they already know they're going to take them away, so to me there's no issue there, Carroll said.

* Not the Hatch Act, the Foreign Emoluments Clause, campaign finance laws, subpoenas, or laws like that. Just the ones made for poor non-whites.

"To be perfectly honest, I'm angry at the parents," [Madeline Carroll] said. "I feel very honestly that it's their fault that the children have been separated, because they're bringing them in illegally. And the other thing is, the law that has been put on the books was not put on recently. It was put on back many years ago, and I think very seriously that they need very firmly to say enough is enough."


"I think people need to stop constantly bringing up the poor children, the poor children. The parents are the problems. They're the ones coming in illegally," she said. "Quit trying to make us feel teary-eyed for the children. Yes, I love children a great deal*, but to me, it's up to the parents to do things rightfully and legally."

* "Really just the cute white ones. None of those mixed babies. And the white ones better not have been born by poor single mothers. They're just whores who are trying to steal money away from my Social Security and Medicare."

"I don't want to see families torn apart, but I also support enforcing the law," said Jessica Lycos, a political consultant based in Phoenix.

"But when push comes to shove I'd rather have children indefinitely locked up in horrendous conditions rather than have them make a mockery of a law that carries a $50 civil fine that no other president seriously enforced because they all understood what kind of dangerous, immoral sh*t-show it would result in," she said.

"Here's how I feel about it: When I was a kid, 16 years old, I got fined for swimming in a lake 'cause I didn't follow the rules," [Carl Bier] said. "These people that we have coming across the border illegally are breaking the rules. I have no feelings for them at all."

TIL that getting fined a nickle in 1951 and having your children ripped away from you and locked up for weeks in cages you wouldn't put your pet in are totally the same.

"Unfortunately, those parents and those children are feeling what their choices are,"

said Sonya Coppa, mother of two who apparently would never try to improve the lives of her children or get them to a safer place if that meant committing a misdemeanor.

"You can't just come into this state and reap," she said. "Do it legally, get your card, become a citizen pay your taxes. That's what I believe in."

"What's that you say, " she continued. "Immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes and contribute billions to Social Security that they'll never be able to benefit from? Why that's taxation without representation!"

"I don't think the people involved want to do it this way, but that's the way that the policy has been instructed for them to do," [Brian Shiau, a VP of a private equity holding company] said.

"They're just following orders," he continued.

"It's not just involving separating the families -- we're trying to secure our borders to stop the drug trafficking, the sex trafficking and I think it goes a little deeper," [Renee Padilla] said. "At the end of the day, to make America great again I think both sides of the aisle need to come together."

"These three-year-old drug kingpins and human traffickers have terrorized us long enough. They have to be stopped!" she continued. "I just don't understand why Democrats can't see that we need a final solution for immigration."

"If we don't like it, let's get together and change it. Let's fix it," [Pascal Kropf, vice-president of "Politics on the Rocks, a monthly networking happy hour for people whose politics skew conservative] said. "Unfortunately ... it's politics."

"...And I really like seeing brown people treated like animals and locked up. It's kinda my kink."

Note that many, if not most, of the people being locked up in our concentration camps did nothing illegal. Many of them claimed asylum, which is legal, and they followed the procedure required under international law.

Also, the sex trafficking scaremongering is widely overblown (and hurts people who consensually do sex work, but that's a different topic). The children are more at risk for sexual abuse in the concentration camps. (Physical abuse is, of course, part of the system. They're making little children sleep on concrete floors, for crying out loud.)

OG_slinger wrote:

I don't know about you, but I just can't get enough news reports where people freely get to spout racist sh*t and where the reporters never ask the simple question "What would you do to protect your children and make a better life for them?"

You'll note that not one of those people said anything overtly racist. It seems to me that the takeaway from that article is a lot more dangerous than some casual implied racism - it's the fetishization of government authority. Essentially, the government is permitted to do pretty much anything to people as long as they are breaking the law, or even perceived to be going against government policy.

They are correct in that this kind of treatment of immigrants is not new, though the Trump administration has certainly ramped things up. You can also see the broad impact of this kind of thinking when it comes to prison conditions for all races. This is a much larger and more serious problem that is far more widespread.

All of that seemed explicitly racist to me. They only lacked actual slurs to really put it over the edge. And other than the person who stopped just short of "following orders" I'm not seeing any fetishizing of authority. They aren't interested in authority for itself they just want a tool to hurt others.

Aetius wrote:

Essentially, the government is permitted to do pretty much anything to brown people.

Minor modification submitted without further comment.

Rezzy wrote:
Aetius wrote:

Essentially, the government is permitted to do pretty much anything to brown people.

Minor modification submitted without further comment.


I recently read somewhere (might have been here on GWJ) the take that conservatism is based on the belief that there are two classes of people: one that is protected by the law but not bound by it, and one that is bound by the law but not protected by it. I think this take is pretty insightful; I think any of those people blathering on about the rule of law and how these concentration camps are just being used to enforce it would blow their lid they or the trump administration were ever denied even the slightest bit of courtesy, due process, or presumption of innocence when accused of a crime, but would also blow their lid if we treated the asylum seekers in the camps (who in many cases aren't even accused of a crime) with any amount courtesy, due process, or presumption of innocence. This is primarily because of race, ethnicity, and socioeconomic class; because of this, their statements are very clearly bigoted, though I agree that to an extent they aren't *too overtly* bigoted.

Super happy all these voters are concerned with the law. They will totally back Congress on this one