Devil May Cry 5 Catch-All

And Capcom's got a Dev Diary up for it. Mostly discussing the visuals.

Pretty good watch!

I'm through Son of Sparda now, I'm imagining Dante must Die will be a lot harder. For now I'm playing through on Human mode both to get the achievement (and clean up some others along the way), get a couple of orbs to buy most of the skills for all characters and get more of a grip on both Dante and Nero. I'm handling V alright for now, he definitely seems to be easiest of the three. Nero is surprisingly difficult to get down after unlocking his devil trigger; hitting both his followup punch and the exceed perfectly after EVERY GODDAMN SWING both of which require wildly different timing? It's pretty hard.
I don't know if I'll be able to handle Hell and Hell mode after DmD, it sounds insanely difficult.

I'm kind of surprised the game seems to get so little response, both here and on a German gaming forum I frequent. I'm not sure how representative that is but I perceive it as weird for the best game in any given genre in a decade.

It depends on who you follow. I have a bunch of YouTubers and YouTube adjacent folks on my Twitter timeline that are still talking about it and sharing combos. It seems the Steam numbers for DMC5 were better than those for RE2, so it should be likely that DMC5 managed to get around the same 3 million sold, which would be an improvement over DMC4's sales numbers (at least, the earlier sales numbers).

Honestly, looking at other threads on this board, I think fast-paced action game is just not the speed of this community and is one of the reasons so many are in love with From. I still believe one of the reasons the Dark Souls games are so popular is that they're slowed down compared to other action games, but I don't have enough experience to say otherwise and I'm sure Dyni will march right in with all kinds of corrections. The thing is, speed that combat up and suddenly you gotta have better and better reflexes in order to succeed, and while I know Dark Souls requires its own type of skill, I feel like a lot of that has to do with patience and caution.

So once Game of the Year time rolls around, don't expect a lot of votes for DMC5. Even among the GWJers with niche tastes it is a niche taste. It has its audience, though, and Capcom is certainly being rewarded for faithfully returning Devil May Cry to its quirky Japanese nature.

ccesarano wrote:

Honestly, looking at other threads on this board, I think fast-paced action game is just not the speed of this community and is one of the reasons so many are in love with From. I still believe one of the reasons the Dark Souls games are so popular is that they're slowed down compared to other action games, but I don't have enough experience to say otherwise and I'm sure Dyni will march right in with all kinds of corrections. The thing is, speed that combat up and suddenly you gotta have better and better reflexes in order to succeed, and while I know Dark Souls requires its own type of skill, I feel like a lot of that has to do with patience and caution.

So once Game of the Year time rolls around, don't expect a lot of votes for DMC5. Even among the GWJers with niche tastes it is a niche taste. It has its audience, though, and Capcom is certainly being rewarded for faithfully returning Devil May Cry to its quirky Japanese nature.

No corrections so far, so I'll take you at your word. :p Still seems weird to me, but eh. Back to the game!

I just found out about jump canceling the other day. I can kind of get my head around using it with Nero in combination with his aerial repertoire and integrating that into my combos, but I haven't even tried doing anything significant with it while using Dante, he's still too much for me as is most of the time.
I've also fallen out of love with V after now being slightly more than half-way through Dante Must Die. I'm probably missing some nuance, but he seems to have significantly less going on than the other two. I find myself repeating move-sequences a lot and fights on DMD can get tedious because of that since the enemy health pools are so huge.

Oh, and Bloody Palace just released today, I haven't tried it yet but am looking forward to giving it a shot tonight!

Goodness, I can't even imagine trying Dante Must Die. I did the prologue and first mission on Son of Sparda and had a decent time, but can only imagine it'll get more and more tough as I progress. If I can beat SoS I think I'll be happy.

Same with Bloody Palace. I'll probably drop in and give it a go, but I don't anticipate ever completing it.

Also, there's an achievement in the game that describes itself as something like "Wield a great power to enact an unexpected conclusion". If you want to know what it is:

Spoiler:

Beat Urizen in the prologue.

Eventually going to try my hand at that. I don't know if I could ever get good at something like jump canceling. I just don't think that far into combat. If I've used it, probably did so as an accident to last-minute dodge an enemy attack coming from behind or something.

You can do really wild things with jump-cancelling, any moves that leaves you reasonably close to an enemy in the air (which is most moves...) you can just immediately cancel by jumping off of the enemy the moment the move connects, then before the jump comes out input another move... which you then of course can also jumpcancel, etc. You'd need fighting game-levels of practice to actually get good with it, especially with Dante and all the options he has. I hardly spent any time in the void so far, so I'm not good at any of it quite yet.

Dante Must Die is a really big ramp-up in difficulty, yeah. I didn't have much trouble with SoS, on DMD I'm glad if I can get through one mission in a sitting. No only do the enemies have enormous amounts of health and do enough damage to kill you in 2-3 hits even with maxed out health, they also all gain access to their own versions of Devil Trigger.

ccesarano wrote:

Also, there's an achievement in the game that describes itself as something like "Wield a great power to enact an unexpected conclusion". If you want to know what it is:

Spoiler:

Beat Urizen in the prologue.

Yup, I did that, took me quite a few tries. The "reward" was a bit disappointing:

Spoiler:

Not even a real cutscene or anything, just a few lines of text on screen.

Still, it felt awesome to do.

Itsuno was interviewed by Polygon at GDC. I don't know if there's much new info in there, but even in writing Itsuno comes off as a lovable guy.

By the end, though, I couldn't help but wonder. Itsuno writes off the "I Survived DMC5 Development Hell" t-shirts as a fun joke and play on words, but in light of the recent Bioware piece by Jason Schreier, has anyone reached out to programmers at Capcom to find out? Of course, a lot of those developers and programmers are Japanese, and crunch is more commonplace across all their industries, not just games. There's also going to be even more resistance to speaking negatively about your company from a cultural perspective. Nevertheless, I do wonder.

I'm also reminded of the Darksiders documentary (I swear I'm not bringing that up whenever on purpose), where one of the developers was commenting on the first game's crunch. "It felt kind of like going to war, where since the game was a success we felt like we won and it was worth it. But if we had lost, we might have felt differently about it."

I dunno. Food for thought, I guess.

From what I gathered living in Japan the outlook on work-life balance is pretty skewed in favor of work. I hear it's pretty bad in the US as well, not sure how the two compare. I would not be surprised if the crunch specifically and hours put in generally were unhealthily high... but as you said, you probably won't get someone to talk about it easily. Admittedly I don't know how the culture has developed there in recent years, maybe there's been change...

In lighter news, I beat Dante Must Die yesterday, which was pretty cool. It actually got easier along the way, or at least it felt like it, probably because I got used to a more cautious playstyle. I was dreading the two final boss levels especially, but in the end pretty much breezed through them, much to my surprise. With this I finally unlocked Heaven or Hell, and casually strolling through the scenery while one-shotting everything the game throws at you (including bosses!) is pretty much as cathartic as I imagined it would be, especially after DMD. I still want to beat Bloody Palace with all three, which I only have given a brief look so far, and I'll probably give Hell and Hell an honest shot, if it's not too infuriating. So far I'm still having fun and learning.

DMC5 is definitely my game of the year at this point!
...it's also the only 2019 game I've played so far, so that probably doesn't count for much.

I plan on taking occasional stabs at Son of Sparda soon. My friend and I discussed it some last night and we both got excited just thinking about the game. It really is something special.

Welp, just died on Bloody Palace stage 101 (aka the very last one) after apparently spending 2 hours getting through it all. Damnit.

The struggle is real.

That's the fine line between "whelp, time to quit" and "gonna try again tomorrow".

I'll give it another shot for sure, maybe on the weekend. It's a lot of fun, kind of feels like a practice mode with stakes, I felt like I got a lot better over the course of those fights. Defeat was disappointing but not frustrating.

I actually dipped into Bloody Palace a bit tonight. It's amazing how deep this game's combat is. I discovered those giant insectoid demons are able to be "countered" during a certain attack, which got me what I think is my first SSS with Nero. That I'm barely able to make par on most of those missions feels like I'm not bad at this game, but could certainly improve.

I think I died on the 18th floor. It was the one with... the Berserker? You only face it once in Devil Hunter mode, an enemy that looks like it vanishes and reappears slashing at you. I am guessing the counter is to attack right before it hits you, but I wasn't all that good at timing that. I only discovered you can counter by accident. I'll have to look and see if there's a strategy for handling that guy.

I can see Bloody Palace eating up a lot of spare time.

That enemy sounds like Fury. Those things are very annoying, probably still the enemy I have the most trouble with as well.
Parrying is indeed a good way to counter them but you'd have to take a look at the animations and attack patterns in the void in order to know when a strike is coming. You can also just wait his strikes out and counterattack once he is done attacking, I'm pretty sure there's always a slight opening.

There are a couple of character-specific things I found out that make them way easier to deal with, especially once there are multiple or they are thrown in the mix along with "normal" enemies. First, with Dante you can use the mini-blades that follow the targeted enemy around (the move that you get when you hold the style button in swordmaster until charged, then release, with Devil Sword Dante equipped), with Nero you can do a similar thing by just sending a punchline after them. Those harass them the whole time and can interrupt a couple of moves, after which you can get a strike or two in.
Also, if you manage to knock them down and happen to have Overture equipped with Nero, you can just stand next to them and do the Overture groundpound until they are dead, they won't teleport away for some reason.

TheGamingBrit put his hour-long video up today, which is beyond over-indulgent. I'm glad the guy's actually done talking about DMC because, while I agree with a lot of his critiques on a technical level, the boy's got a big chip on his shoulder when it comes to the "spoken-tongue-in-cheek-but-no-actually-serious" "real gamer" stuff. Like, I'm someone that has thoughts regarding difficulty and creator vision and yatta yatta, but this guy makes me roll my own eyes sometimes.

Anyway, all that preamble to say, watching him, holy crap this game's got some crazy depth and holy cow do I even play Dante? I should probably start practicing Royal Guard a lot more, as it looks so useful and yet I never really messed with it because I've always played so offensively.

I'm starting to regret purchasing a physical copy of the game, as I'm starting to want to be able to go back and just replay at any time. That, or video games adopted the (selective) Amazon model where you bought a physical copy to own but receive a download code.