The Division 2 - Catch All

vypre wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

Bummer that the new 8 person Raid will not support Matchmaking. You have to have premade groups to run it.

Yeah, Reddit and Twitter are throwing a sh*t-fit.

I'm kind of with them on that. I doubt I ever can get 8 people together to run it.

So, if I have a 490 Chatterbox and break it down. I can then do the same process again to get 4 pieces and make another?

And FYI they're fairly short and there's only supposed to be 8 total for the first year. Some more info for anyone interested:

https://kotaku.com/the-division-2-ad...

jigsawhc wrote:
vypre wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

Bummer that the new 8 person Raid will not support Matchmaking. You have to have premade groups to run it.

Yeah, Reddit and Twitter are throwing a sh*t-fit.

I'm kind of with them on that. I doubt I ever can get 8 people together to run it.

I am too. The whole thing, quite frankly, infuriates me. I'm really tired of game publishers advertising their games as having certain features and then not including them at all. It's called false advertising and it's f*cking illegal as hell (in the US), yet software development - a realm I work in myself - appears to be getting a carte blanche hallpass.

On the other hand, after reading Ubisoft's response:

“‘We decided to not include matchmaking, as we don’t think this would make a good gameplay experience for random groups. The Raid will test your ability to communicate well, have a good build set up and will require great teamwork to beat encounters.’”

...I get what they're saying. Especially, if it truly requires build planning, but then they never should have advertised it to begin with. If you're not sure you can make something work, keep your marketing department's damn mouth shut.

jigsawhc wrote:

So, if I have a 490 Chatterbox and break it down. I can then do the same process again to get 4 pieces and make another?

Yes. For Chatterbox, the only way to get a duplicate is to run the entire process over again. On the other hand, if you have a duplicate of an exotic that is a dropped item, you can break down one of your duplicates to get the "exotic component" that will work to upgrade any exotic. If you don't have dupes though, it seems as though farming Chatterbox is probably one of the fastest ways to do it since it doesn't depend quite so much on RNG.

jigsawhc wrote:
vypre wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

Bummer that the new 8 person Raid will not support Matchmaking. You have to have premade groups to run it.

Yeah, Reddit and Twitter are throwing a sh*t-fit.

I'm kind of with them on that. I doubt I ever can get 8 people together to run it.

I understand both the devs' decision to not provide matchmaking for the raid, and the 'fans' reactions. Based on what we've seen from the developers thus far, they will go back on their first instincts to make the players happy, and we will see Raid matchmaking before too long. I'm sure it will take less than 1 day of randomly generated raid teams to boot someone at the last part of the raid to make room for a clan-mate, too.

Are there people interested in trying to do the raid this Saturday, around noon EDT?

jigsawhc wrote:

So, if I have a 490 Chatterbox and break it down. I can then do the same process again to get 4 pieces and make another?

Yes. Apparently you won't get any of the parts for it if you have the Chatterbox in your inventory or stash (I'm not sure about it being on a different character), so be sure you have it broken down before you try to farm for the parts.

OK, thanks for the Chatterbox confirmation. I don't have other exotics currently so that seems the easiest way...unless a D50 magically finally drops for me and I can finally craft the pistol.

vypre wrote:

I am too. The whole thing, quite frankly, infuriates me. I'm really tired of game publishers advertising their games as having certain features and then not including them at all. It's called false advertising and it's f*cking illegal as hell (in the US), yet software development - a realm I work in myself - appears to be getting a carte blanche hallpass.

On the other hand, after reading Ubisoft's response:

“‘We decided to not include matchmaking, as we don’t think this would make a good gameplay experience for random groups. The Raid will test your ability to communicate well, have a good build set up and will require great teamwork to beat encounters.’”

...I get what they're saying. Especially, if it truly requires build planning, but then they never should have advertised it to begin with. If you're not sure you can make something work, keep your marketing department's damn mouth shut.

Talk about going overboard and just making false accusations.

I would like to see the advertisement you are talking about claiming. The advertisement that claims matchmaking in raids or matchmaking in 100% of things. I don't remember seeing any of this. If it does exist and I apologize however, even then every advertisement or buying of a game lists that things can change for final release. They would 100% be in their legal rights to change it. One of the biggest arguments that buying incomplete or pre-ordered games is in almost every way a bad idea (that i do all the time).

What you are saying is someone sold a house that advertised as Central A/C is false advertising when the garage is not air conditioned.

Division go's far beyond "standards" in the industry for matchmaking. You can match make for open world random events. PVP, PVE, DZ, Missions, nearly everything.

Majority (honestly off hand can't think of one that does but would guess they exist) of games with raids have matchmaking in most parts of game but not in raids for good reasons as you listed. Destiny kind of does with their Mentor Guild program which is a great idea. However, very simply to have general matchmaking for these things the developers would be making a huge mistake.

Now I have not looked at raid at all do not know mechanics but being things that were said by both them and others lets assume their are some team mechanics and certainly team builds would help. If this is the case lets look at what happens if they put in matchmaking.

You go in with 8 random people. You can't figure out what to do.

People are not communicating/don't have mics don't use it. Someone gets mad rages in chat because no one is on same page. You have an awful experience. You then rate or give bad reviews.

Lets say you get a group of 7 random group that all communicate well (highly unlikely). Oh you don't have correct or even setups and are unable to complete objectives. People get mad. Again you leave with bad taste in your mouth.

Lets say you get 4 guys that have done it before. They disagree on how to do it. They fight and no one works together. Again bad experience.

The chances of it actually going well are very slim if there are actually raid level mechanics. Now I forget what they are called but in the first one they had "raid like" events they said that were very dull and easy to do. They didn't require much planning teamwork. If these end up like that I will both be disappointed and they should have matchmaking. However, if these are true raids with any level of team build/communication necessary they are 100% correct to not have matchmaking.

This does not fit the greatest because I normally play with 3-4 people that are often on different schedules (other than Ranalin who is on everyone schedule :P). So for this going to have to step out and find additional people and maybe random or out of our normal. Going to have to find time to do it depending on how it takes. All things that are a pain. I can also take the game that I have 180 hours in already assume that is more than worth the $$ I paid for it and be happy and just not do it.

The simple idea that every piece of content or game mode must be made in a way to be accessible to every person/type of player out there is asinine.

I would like to see the advertisement you are talking about claiming. The advertisement that claims matchmaking in raids or matchmaking in 100% of things. I don't remember seeing any of this. If it does exist and I apologize however

“Matchmaking is provided for every activity and difficulty level.”

IMAGE(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/tgr8xiswdb8xdekmnr33.png)

ruhk wrote:
I would like to see the advertisement you are talking about claiming. The advertisement that claims matchmaking in raids or matchmaking in 100% of things. I don't remember seeing any of this. If it does exist and I apologize however

“Matchmaking is provided for every activity and difficulty level.”

IMAGE(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/tgr8xiswdb8xdekmnr33.png)

Nice partial paste and leaving out even parts of the sentence you pasted.

I would like to see the advertisement you are talking about claiming. The advertisement that claims matchmaking in raids or matchmaking in 100% of things. I don't remember seeing any of this. If it does exist and I apologize however, even then every advertisement or buying of a game lists that things can change for final release. They would 100% be in their legal rights to change it. One of the biggest arguments that buying incomplete or pre-ordered games is in almost every way a bad idea (that i do all the time).

Edit: I also would bet you found that off some reddit post or forum post and had no idea until you read it they said that. This internet including GWJ has really turned into to blind leading the stupid.

I'm confused.. that screenshot which has been circulated widely is pretty damning.. As well Blizzard already figured this out.. you make difficulty levels as the gatekeeper.. keep content available to everyone but ensure that you provide different levels of challenges for those that want/require it for their enjoyment.

Trying to assemble 8 people for the same time with enough tries/time to get through these types of raids is frustrating for a large portion of the playerbase.

Why cater to the select few that have the time/resources to enjoy content? Give them challenge to enjoy not content.

Besides.. most of these raids are aren't particularly heavy on the skill based challenges.. its repetition and understanding the mechanics which you typically only learn through multiple tries.

ruhk wrote:
I would like to see the advertisement you are talking about claiming. The advertisement that claims matchmaking in raids or matchmaking in 100% of things. I don't remember seeing any of this. If it does exist and I apologize however

“Matchmaking is provided for every activity and difficulty level.”

IMAGE(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/tgr8xiswdb8xdekmnr33.png)

Yeah, they said it right there. Looks like a legally-binding contract to me. I really do think they will change their minds to allow matchmaking, and people will be unhappy about it. I also think we can agree that calling a change of plans false advertising is a pretty big reach.

Edit: I also would bet you found that off some reddit post or forum post and had no idea until you read it they said that. This internet including GWJ has really turned into to blind leading the stupid.

IMAGE(https://media.giphy.com/media/j9djzcMmzg8ow/giphy.gif)

The section I quoted wasn’t edited to alter your meaning, but for brevity.

The image I got from the Kotaku article about it, which is why it’s a Kinja link.

TheGameguru wrote:

Why cater to the select few that have the time/resources to enjoy content? Give them challenge to enjoy not content.

Because of reasons i stated above if it is true desitny/wow/etc.... raid level content it is impossible to create a good experience with random people without planning and self organization. Decent raid mechanics take organization/planning .

What you want is impossible with current tech. You want something that is inherently takes planning/strategy but you want to be able to do it with random people with no planning.

You can either have bad raid content like previous Division where 98% of players did not even do the raids even when they had matchmaking because they were just glorified missions. Or you can have actual raid content that is interesting to do but takes planning time.

Crinkle and I played all the Destiny 1 raids together. He loved them. Since then he changed jobs and had two kids. He did not play the Destiny 2 raids because of this. He would never claim he wanted them to make them so he can not "fit them in" because if they did he would not enjoy doing them. They would be crappy shovelware.

ruhk wrote:

The section I quoted wasn’t edited to alter your meaning, but for brevity.

The image I got from the Kotaku article about it, which is why it’s a Kinja link.

I don't believe you being you stopped a copy mid sentence that 100% completely changed my statement.

escher77 wrote:
ruhk wrote:

The section I quoted wasn’t edited to alter your meaning, but for brevity.

The image I got from the Kotaku article about it, which is why it’s a Kinja link.

I don't believe you being you stopped a copy mid sentence that 100% completely changed my statement.

I don’t think it does, but you do you. You asked for proof, I offered proof. Everything that followed was just you giving yourself an out in case there was proof. Take a breath.

Because of reasons i stated above if it is true desitny/wow/etc.... raid level content it is impossible to create a good experience with random people without planning and self organization. Decent raid mechanics take organization/planning .

What you want is impossible with current tech. You want something that is inherently takes planning/strategy but you want to be able to do it with random people with no planning.

You do know that WoW has had Raid matchmaking for almost nine years at this point, right?

*mod*

Hi. Just checking in. Hope things don't start getting too heated.

TheGameguru wrote:

Bummer that the new 8 person Raid will not support Matchmaking. You have to have premade groups to run it.

I hadn't heard that. That sucks.

The whole "it's not a good experience with randoms" excuse doesn't work for me. If that's true, so what? Let the game tell you it's recommended to form an organized party, but allow matchmaking anyway. Everyone can then at least experience the content - and maybe it will be a challenge, or frustrating - maybe that will push a player to go on and get in an organized group to succeed, but at least players have the choice.

IMAGE(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o6UBgTW5niwy25kkw/200_s.gif)

IMAGE(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/03/b4/46/03b44608d270be9dc7faf548b52ca19f.jpg)

Keep in mind this one of the primary reasons for clans. While i'll be shocked if we have over 25 active members in both clans in a couple weeks i'm pretty sure we have more than 8 and we can work on scheduling times to get folks in. So for those that are not in one reach out to Casual_Alcoholic or myself when it comes time for folks on PC to want to try the raid.

AcidCat wrote:

The whole "it's not a good experience with randoms" excuse doesn't work for me. If that's true, so what? Let the game tell you it's recommended to form an organized party, but allow matchmaking anyway. Everyone can then at least experience the content - and maybe it will be a challenge, or frustrating - maybe that will push a player to go on and get in an organized group to succeed, but at least players have the choice.

Yea, you think the forums and reddit is vitrolic now? Take a gander on the WoW forums for each of the WoW expansion when it comes to their raids. Especially when they introduced the Mythic difficulty dungeons and Heroic raids...

I fully expect Ubi to go that route, eventually, but as usual they're starting off with a measured approach. They have 0 clue on how to tune the raids right now if they just open the flood gates and let everyone in. This way they have control and will be able to tune it accordingly.

escher77 wrote:

To start Nemesis quest you get some other named rifle and have to dismantle from Tidal basin hidden chest. Ranalin is usually good for name of rifle you need to dismantle. Once you have the first part from that you then do the other 3 invaded (must be WT5 version) strongholds so takes 3 weeks to go through rotation. Once done you do grand washington hotel and first boss gives you the blueprint. I know of at least 8 or 9 people that got the rifle first time opening the chest. Ranalin is only one I know that did not and took him a few attempts but then once he got it started rest went well.

BTW, as of the latest patch, you don't need to have all Nemesis component pieces to be able to loot the blueprint. I believe you only need the first component, the one you get from breaking the Adrastia.

So go get the Nemesis blueprint from GWH before it's no longer invaded (it's invaded right now)!

As for raid matchmaking, as much as I would like to be able to try the raid (and pretty much the only way for me to try it is through matchmaking), I realize that if the raid is any good, doing it with randos would be a pure frustration, so I think I don't really care that matchmaking is not available.

ranalin wrote:

Yea, you think the forums and reddit is vitrolic now? Take a gander on the WoW forums for each of the WoW expansion when it comes to their raids. Especially when they introduced the Mythic difficulty dungeons and Heroic raids...

Honestly, if you look at pretty much every MMO... ever, the majority of the playerbase doesn't even attempt the raids in the first place, group finder features or not.

And especially if you look at the WoW forums, the people complaining about the raids generally have never set foot in them.

cube wrote:
ranalin wrote:

Yea, you think the forums and reddit is vitrolic now? Take a gander on the WoW forums for each of the WoW expansion when it comes to their raids. Especially when they introduced the Mythic difficulty dungeons and Heroic raids...

Honestly, if you look at pretty much every MMO... ever, the majority of the playerbase doesn't even attempt the raids in the first place, group finder features or not.

And especially if you look at the WoW forums, the people complaining about the raids generally have never set foot in them.

Yea i know. Very true. I figured the folks here were at least going to attempt to get in

ranalin wrote:
cube wrote:
ranalin wrote:

Yea, you think the forums and reddit is vitrolic now? Take a gander on the WoW forums for each of the WoW expansion when it comes to their raids. Especially when they introduced the Mythic difficulty dungeons and Heroic raids...

Honestly, if you look at pretty much every MMO... ever, the majority of the playerbase doesn't even attempt the raids in the first place, group finder features or not.

And especially if you look at the WoW forums, the people complaining about the raids generally have never set foot in them.

Yea i know. Very true. I figured the folks here were at least going to attempt to get in ;)

Yeah, I'm hoping for Saturday at noon Eastern. We can kick it off 48 hours after it launches - and probably 46 hours after the first team completes it.

So for those looking for exotic components and don't really want to rely on running missions. I found the chatterbox exotic is the easiest to do. You CAN put your exotic on another character and then farm the parts on your main and they will drop from the hyena caches (still RNG). There are 2 caches per area in the open world and just takes a little bit of running around to get them, after you know where to go it's pretty easy to just log in and do a quick jaunt around the map and get the parts and craft/deconstruct the exotic for 2 components (which can only be done every 24 hours). While I guess it's possible to get 2 chatterboxes per day (assuming you get really lucky and the component drops for you for every box you loot) I just ended up running around once a night and looting boxes til I got one and then logged.

It's also a good way to always make sure you have a decent damage roll for your exotic if you have a dupe. For example if you had 2 chatterboxes you can just re-roll the less of the 2 damage and always keep the higher damage exotic without risking getting a bad roll and running out of exotic components for re-rolling. This is especially true if you have a 90% rolled damage on something and your chances of getting a higher roll is not likely. This is the reason why I'll probably farm another Nemesis as my current roll is 2k short of a max damage roll (for me) with a 2nd Nemesis I know I'm not risking a lower roll as I'll only re-roll the lower damage one.

Spiraldox wrote:

So for those looking for exotic components and don't really want to rely on running missions. I found the chatterbox exotic is the easiest to do. You CAN put your exotic on another character and then farm the parts on your main and they will drop from the hyena caches (still RNG). There are 2 caches per area in the open world and just takes a little bit of running around to get them, after you know where to go it's pretty easy to just log in and do a quick jaunt around the map and get the parts and craft/deconstruct the exotic for 2 components (which can only be done every 24 hours). While I guess it's possible to get 2 chatterboxes per day (assuming you get really lucky and the component drops for you for every box you loot) I just ended up running around once a night and looting boxes til I got one and then logged.

It's also a good way to always make sure you have a decent damage roll for your exotic if you have a dupe. For example if you had 2 chatterboxes you can just re-roll the less of the 2 damage and always keep the higher damage exotic without risking getting a bad roll and running out of exotic components for re-rolling. This is especially true if you have a 90% rolled damage on something and your chances of getting a higher roll is not likely. This is the reason why I'll probably farm another Nemesis as my current roll is 2k short of a max damage roll (for me) with a 2nd Nemesis I know I'm not risking a lower roll as I'll only re-roll the lower damage one.

Honestly the Pestilence is the easiest, but you have to brave the DZ.

edit:

FYI for some time stat comparisons.

I've spent 11 hrs total in the DZ. I have had 5 pestilence drops since they released it.

I have spent 197 hours in the game total and have had 2 Merciless, 2 Sweet Dreams drop. It took me weeks to farm for the chatterbox doing runs everyday on all the hyena boxes i knew about in and out of missions.

The crafting lady had the Nemesis upgrade blueprint today, weird. I already had a pestilence, so I deconstructed that. Got an upgrade from 274K damage to 307K, so I'm good with that roll.

I'm really looking forward to trying out the raid. I assume Discord will be the place to meet up. Do we have any idea how long they will take, have they said anywhere?

Propagandalf wrote:

The crafting lady had the Nemesis upgrade blueprint today, weird. I already had a pestilence, so I deconstructed that. Got an upgrade from 274K damage to 307K, so I'm good with that roll.

I'm really looking forward to trying out the raid. I assume Discord will be the place to meet up. Do we have any idea how long they will take, have they said anywhere?

No clue on the timing and yea on Discord.

I am internet-mad about something!

Honestly the Pestilence is the easiest, but you have to brave the DZ.

It’s worth pointing out that the DZ is actually pretty tame compared to the first game. I’m halfway to the DZ level cap and while I encounter other players frequently, I’ve only had run-ins with three rogue agents, only two of which actually attacked. I think most people in the DZ are just focusing on farming.