The GWJ CRPG Club - Games 3 & 2 In Progress

Gravey wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm confused as to how Fallout 4 isn't an RPG, but after all the bitter conversations about Fallout 3, I'm not sure I want to touch that one. ;)

I can't think of a better explanation than this unrelated comment I stumbled on yesterday:

Shader10 wrote:

What has gamer culture ever been except fear and anger directed at things that don't fit a narrow definition of purity?

God, that really cuts to the quick, doesn't it? And I love that it was in response to a controversy that's so completely divorced from my areas of familiarity that I'm surprised to discover it's even a controversy at all.

Kind of short notice, but Tyranny is on sale on the WinGamesStore for $14.84 for the next ... 4 hours.

That's the cheapest I've seen it. It was one of the games that made our list of candidates.

The latest Humble Classics Bundle might be of interest to the group. Shadowrun Hong Kong in the mid $8 tier alongside *hint***Wasteland 2***hint* and others.

For now... I'm planning to get back to some Dragonfall this weekend, after being sidetracked for a few weeks... Enjoy suggesting games for gwj clubs but this is my best chance yet to actually finish one

I would suggest Avadon: Escape from the pit because why not.

On the subject of usernames (and I apologize if this seems pedantic and obsessive), it really just grates on me that Feegle isn't capitalized in the member list. Could that be fixed, when you get a moment?

Feegle wrote:

On the subject of usernames (and I apologize if this seems pedantic and obsessive), it really just grates on me that Feegle isn't capitalized in the member list. Could that be fixed, when you get a moment?

No worries at all! I totally understand, and have fixed it for you. My apologies, I try to match the case but I obviously got that one wrong.

If there are other typos, etc., please let me know and I’ll clean them up.

So, I bought the most recent Humble Bundle for Torment. I had a bunch of the other games and I thought that I'd put them up for grabs here first because a lot of the games are CRPGs including our current CRPG Shadowrun: Dragonfall.

If anyone wants any of these, PM me. Normal grinder rules apply:

  • Age of Wonders III
  • Dreamfall Chapters
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong - Extended Edition
  • Tesla Effect: A Tex Murphy Adventure
  • Wasteland 2: Director's Cut

Ooooo... I wish I'd noticed this earlier, I like this idea... I am a horrible paradox of a hording completionist and a butterfly chaser... I start an RPG (or nearly ANY game) and TRY to tell myself "No, THIS time I'll just follow the main questline, I won't try to explore EVERY PIXEL and squeeze every gold piece out of every situation and area, and I won't keep hundreds of stacks of healing potions and ammo yet be afraid to ever use them just in case I need them later!"... yet invariably, 25 hours or so in (and about 1 hour into the actual storyline I'm 'focusing' on), some other game is released or is being talked about on a podcast or by friends or whatever, and I suddenly find myself covertly installing it "I just want to see what they are talking about, I'll just pop in and look at the graphics, see what's so interesting about the mechanics.. maybe just try to follow the main storyline a bit... maybe horde all those cool items... ooooo, maybe I'll just pop over there and see if that barrel is stuffed with loot, Ohhhhhh, look at that! .........". Finding the original game suddenly left in my "I'm getting right back to that" backlog, and the times I DO get back, I have to restart because I don't remember whats going on or in fact how to play at all.

It's really a frustrating cursed existence! *sigh* I like this idea, though I have little hope it will actually break my curse, but you are all welcome to try! Sign me up! A couple months back someone tried to individually do this with The Witcher, but neither of us made it.

Hahaha. You've basically summed up the past five years of my RPG playing!

Welcome to the group, I've added you.

This helped me a lot with Shadowrun: Dragonfall. It was great having a bunch of other people playing, talking about the game, and sharing experiences. I finished my first RPG in a long time. So don't give up hope!

Oh wow. Hong Kong is a lot smoother and more polished than Dragonfall was in just presentation and audio.

Dragonfall 's UI and presentation was a huge leap forward from Returns, so I look forward to trying Hong Kong one day.

JohnKillo wrote:

Oh wow. Hong Kong is a lot smoother and more polished than Dragonfall was in just presentation and audio.

it has cutscenes! With voicework!

but yeah, it's visually the best of them by far. I'm not so keen on the interface (too clunky...probably great for mobile ports though) and the changes to the decking stuff, which I didn't really enjoy at all.

I'm interested!

(By which I mean, I'm only just now getting around to getting involved in the main cRPG thread after having such a good experience with the Dragonfall thread. Feels good to finally finish an RPG for the first time in years...)

Looking forward to the next one!

As we're closing in on the end of February, here are my thoughts...

We've still got a number of people playing—and some now starting—Dragonfall. We've had a good flurry of activity these past two weeks, with a number of people finishing the game. So I think it makes sense to let Dragonfall run until the end of March as far as an official deadline, to give everyone a good chance to finish the game.

However, there is no harm in overlapping a bit with our next game. What if we did this for a timeline for the next game?

March 15: Open Nominations & Seconding
March 20: Open Voting, Close Nominations
March 25: Close Voting
March 26: Start New Game

If we need a two-day run off, we'll do that and start on March 28.

WellAdjusted wrote:

I'm interested!

(By which I mean, I'm only just now getting around to getting involved in the main cRPG thread after having such a good experience with the Dragonfall thread. Feels good to finally finish an RPG for the first time in years...)

Looking forward to the next one!

Welcome, I've officially added you! And I agree. I'm happy with how the first one motivated me to stick with a game and I'm looking forward to Number 2. Dragonfall was somewhat short for an RPG, too, so I'm curious how I'll do with something that is a bit longer, if we pick something with more meat on it.

works for me! I'm eager for round 2

Sure. More CRPGs

I'm ready whenever. Dragonfall was one of the first games I've finished in a while, so I'm also curious how I'll do with something longer

I’m all for waiting the full period for the next game. Life happens and I’m making slow progress. I’d like to keep up with the group, but if folks want shorter time frames, I might need to bow out.

fuzzyslug wrote:

I’m all for waiting the full period for the next game. Life happens and I’m making slow progress. I’d like to keep up with the group, but if folks want shorter time frames, I might need to bow out.

I think either way would work out... because you broke this out into the CRPG thread and the dragonfall thread, nothing says you can't have multiple games running at once... some people might be able to keep up with both at once, the slower of us might only be involved in every other run (OMG FOMO!), but the group may not fizzle due to the faster runners getting bored...

Or you could do like this run and have extra credit games to fill the gap and have longer runs... this keeps you from fragmenting the group, gives some non-focal games to fill the gap (just be sure they are games that might not have come up in the next couple rounds if possible), etc.

I think, personally, it's probably best to have them overlap a bit, to give more time to those of us who "take our time", give an opportunity for people to skip a game they may be less interested in while not having to wait too long, etc... probably no more than 2 at once, but allow them to overlap a bit (if not a full 50% overlap so there are always 2 running once that starts). Just a thought. I think it'll work whatever form you give it, though, people will adapt to whatever in their own way.

-JM

JMnITup wrote:

I think either way would work out... because you broke this out into the CRPG thread and the dragonfall thread, nothing says you can't have multiple games running at once... some people might be able to keep up with both at once, the slower of us might only be involved in every other run (OMG FOMO!), but the group may not fizzle due to the faster runners getting bored...

Or you could do like this run and have extra credit games to fill the gap and have longer runs... this keeps you from fragmenting the group, gives some non-focal games to fill the gap (just be sure they are games that might not have come up in the next couple rounds if possible), etc.

I think, personally, it's probably best to have them overlap a bit, to give more time to those of us who "take our time", give an opportunity for people to skip a game they may be less interested in while not having to wait too long, etc... probably no more than 2 at once, but allow them to overlap a bit (if not a full 50% overlap so there are always 2 running once that starts). Just a thought. I think it'll work whatever form you give it, though, people will adapt to whatever in their own way.

There are some interesting thoughts in here, thanks for taking the time to put them down!

Ideally, I'd like the group be something that as many people as possible can participate in and enjoy, really as inclusive as can be. The tricky part seems to be that we've got almost ten very active people done with Shadowrun, and waiting March and April—until May—to start up a new game just feels too long. At the other end, we have a few players like fuzzyslug who are hoping to finish Shadowrun, but finishing in another five weeks, by the end of March, might be challenging given what's going on in life.

So the challenge might be framed this way: "How might we create a pacing schedule that can be frequent enough to keep momentum for more active, faster players, and yet provide enough time for casual players to stay engaged?"

Building off of some of your overlapping ideas, one simple thought would be to start games every three months, but give people six months to finish? So at any point in time, we'd have two games running.

One of my thoughts contributing to this is that Shadowrun might be a misrepresentation for what a typical game for us will be. It was the shortest RPG in our voting list. For more average, longer RPGs, an every three-month start with a six-month play window for each game would probably keep even our fastest players engaged for a month or more, and yet allow even casual gamers a chance to finish a meatier RPG. We'd be providing good playing opportunities for both groups.

This would mean, of course, that casual players wouldn't "play every game", but that's never the goal, and in all honestly I think it'd be tough for casual gamers to play full-size RPGs in three months anyway. It's not unusual for an RPG to be two times or three times longer than Shadowrun. A six-month window would make those more accessible for more time-pressed lifestyles.

And we could also of course toss in spin-offs and extra credit games, like we did this time, to fill gaps for our fastest players.

fuzzyslug wrote:

I’m all for waiting the full period for the next game. Life happens and I’m making slow progress. I’d like to keep up with the group, but if folks want shorter time frames, I might need to bow out.

I totally understand. I hope you'll stick with things! I guess I'd encourage you to not feel pressure to play them all if life isn't affording tons of time to play at the moment. Maybe the above idea would work well for you? What do you think? It would mean we'd extend Shadowrun until the end of June, but start another game for faster players on April 1.

There's interesting ideas in extra credit activities. Such as Shadowrun Returns: Dead Man's Switch being part of a trilogy, of sorts, along with Dragonfall, our CRPG Club choice, but perhaps not one that would ever win a vote. It's a lesser Shadowrun experience. Still, I think of it as an optional expansion for those with the time.

Steam achievements. A second opposing choice play through. Rolling another class. Upping the difficulty. I'm tempted as I enjoyed Dragonfall that much!

Maybe something such as an a, b, c percent of player's completed (or dropped out) at x, y, z point in time signalling a final call. During which time the new vote takes place alongside the closing runs, and the conversation of the current choice. More than 50% at the 8 week mark signalling a last call of a further week, or two? Random example. Values may need tweaking!

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

Building off of some of your overlapping ideas, one simple thought would be to start games every three months, but give people six months to finish? So at any point in time, we'd have two games running.

That seems fairly reasonable.
Or maybe make it more adjustable from game to game (but keep the overlap). There is a ton of variation in how long these games can be. I am sure there are games shorter than Dragonfall too.
Might be more complicated, but could be doable to have 1 game run for 3 months, another for 4 months and a third one for 6 months etc. While only ever having 2 games overlapping. One issue is that you might have two games starting at the same time. Guess one of the new games could be delayed for a month whenever the start dates matched up.
6 months for a game like Dragonfall a least seems a bit long. But I guess looking at how many have completed Dragonfall over the next weeks will give a better idea.

Dont think the timeframe should be adjusted based on % that have completed the games so far. Seems better if everyone have a known timeframe to work with from the start.

So far in Hong Kong land there is fairly interesting choice in the first run.

I’d generally argue for simplicity above all else. People, including myself, played extra Shadowrun games because they wanted to, and because they’re short enough that the timeframe allowed for it. Godzilla Blitz, there wasn’t anything extra to keep track of or extra work on your side. The more there is for you to do, the sooner I fear it would start to feel like work. I’d also be afraid that we would constantly be explaining to newcomers how the nuances work. Not everyone reads the first post of a long thread before jumping in to a discussion.

beanman101283 wrote:

I’d generally argue for simplicity above all else.

Yes, although I like the idea of having some flexibility in end dates due to game length or activity, I'm a fan of simple. I'm leaning toward the idea of starting new games every 3 months, but then just saying the group conversation will be active longer if people need more time, with an "official" group deadline of 6 months after a start.

I'd think most of the conversation will be happening in the first one to three months of a run no matter how we plan, but there's no harm in letting people take longer. For some of the longer games that might be helpful for many of us. For something like Shadowrun, I'd expect the conversation will die off long before that.

That all said, we're now up to 12 people done out of 31 with Shadowrun, with most of the people who have been playing and posting finishing up during the last two weeks. That's close to 40%, which is pretty awesome and much higher than I expected. With that many of the most active people done, I think it'd be a mistake to wait 2+ more months, until May 1, to start a new game. Starting a new game on April 1 still gives people a whole month to finish Shadowrun or play one of the other versions. It feels like a good balance, and it'd get us on a quarterly start.

So I'm still leaning toward this plan...

March 15: Open Nominations & Seconding
March 20: Open Voting, Close Nominations
March 25: Close Voting
March 26-28: Soft Start New Game (Official Start April 1)

The Shadowrun conversation would stay open for people needing more time.

Bumpity Bump for a Quick PSA

Calling all Fellow GWJ CRPGers!

Time to get your thinking caps on. In one week, on March 15 at 6pm GMT, we'll open up Nominations and Seconding for Game 2 in the GWJ CRPG Club. So go hunt for games, ponder ideas, toss out thoughts, and wipe the dust off that Apple IIc just in case!

In related news, I was thinking to suggest checking out the CRPG Book Project for ideas on which game to play, but in a good news/bad news sort of way, the download has been pulled from the site while they prepare a Hardcover version. Hardcover is awesome, but bummer that the download is temporarily unavailable. (I did download 1.01 by sheer good fortune. Go me!)

I’ve been pondering what I’d like to nominate. I originally thought I’d nominate Baldur’s Gate again since there were a lot of votes for it last time and I’m still interested in playing it.

However I noticed I and others found the top-down view in Shadowrun led to feeling detached from the characters and action. I’m wondering if I want to nominate something else, perhaps with a first or more traditional third-person perspective. This might help give some variety to the proceedings and help stave off any feelings of burnout.

Obviously no matter what I choose, others will nominate whatever they want and votes will make the final decision. So maybe I shouldn’t worry about it.

Yeah, I'm curious to see if Baldur's Gate will win, or if something else rises up. BG got as many votes as Dragonfall in the first round last time, but like you say, both are isometric. BG would be more traditional fantasy, so that aspect would be different.

I kind of hope we pick something longer than Dragonfall was, as I'm curious to see how I'll do in a longer game. I'm pretty stoked that I made it through Dragonfall, and things look good that I'll finish Hong Kong as well. Now I think I'm ready for something meatier.

But really, I'm excited to play whatever we pick.

And after looking through the CRPG book, I've got a bunch of ideas for games.

Get rid of voting and make Chronological Order president for life.

What have you done so far? Were the SR games the maiden voyage of this thread? I have a ton of RPGs I would love to have incentive to actually finish, but one of the big ones is Planescape: Torment... now that the remaster is out, I REALLY wanted to play it and see if I could finally actually get through the game... but I have no idea if that is out of the running for being too obvious or something. That would be high on my request list, though.