The GWJ CRPG Club - Main Thread

Okie dokie, after much discussion among all the voices in my head, I've come up with this for my votes:

Wasteland 2
Dragon's Dogma
Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Planescape: Torment
The Banner Saga
Torment: Tides of Numenera

Random thinking...

Wasteland 2 has been dancing with the finalists for quite a while. I've long wanted to try the series, and with Wasteland 3 on the horizon, this feels like a good time. Dragon's Dogma just looks like a game I'd like, and I'm super curious about Pathfinder as well. I'd happily play either of the Torment games, but not having played the first one, I'd prefer to start there. The Banner Saga looks like fun as well, but it doesn't quite grab me like the others in the list do.

Game 11: Ranked Choice Round Voting Update

With about 24 hours to go in the voting, we've got three games separating themselves from the rest of the group. The Banner Saga, Wasteland 2, and Torment: Tides of Numenara have all been within a vote of each other throughout the first days of the voting. Although Dragon's Dogma could still win if it has strong second-place support, it has to be considered a long shot at this point. Planescape: Torment and Pathfinder: Kingmaker would need some strong late support to get back into the battle.

Voting ends tomorrow (Sunday) at 11 GMT, so if you're holding on to votes, now's the time!

Candidates
The Banner Saga - 7
Wasteland 2 - 7
Torment: Tides of Numenera - 6
Dragon's Dogma - 4
Planescape Torment - 2
Pathfinder: Kingmaker - 2

Total Votes: 28
Leader has Majority: No

Candidate Information
The Banner Saga ($4.99, 11-26 hours)
Dragon's Dogma ($8.99, 36-111 hours)
Pathfinder: Kingmaker ($11.99, 99-154 hours)
Planescape Torment ($9.99, 33-64 hours)
Torment: Tides of Numenera ($11.24, 26-51 hours)
Wasteland 2 ($7.49, 41-112 hours)

How to Vote

Spoiler:

1. Please rank the candidates in your order of preference of play, with the game you want to play the most at the top of your list.

2. You may rank as many games as you’d like. You do not need to rank all the games. However, keep in mind that a game in the bottom half of your ranking could win. Ranking at least all the games you would play is a good idea.

3. If you do not want to rank a particular game, please make sure to delete/omit it from your list. (Don’t simply leave the unranked games at the bottom of your list.)

How We’ll Determine a Winner - Elimination Style
Basically, we’ll keep running through the rankings, eliminating the game with the lowest number of top-preference votes, until we have one game that has gotten a majority of the votes. I could write a bazillion words to explain details, but this one-minute video does it better than that:

*For elimination rounds, if we have ties at the bottom of the voting pile, I'll break them by looking at second place votes, so we only eliminate one game each elimination round.

Last call! Voting ends in less about 5 hours.

If it isn't too late, I'd like to join the club!

Wasteland 2
Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Torment: Tides of Numenera
Dragon's Dogma

quasiChaos wrote:

If it isn't too late, I'd like to join the club!

{votes)

Welcome welcome! Anytime is a great time to jump in, thanks for joining and voting!

We need points voting instead of ranked choice. So many second places for Pathfinder
Strategic voting people!

Shadout wrote:

We need points voting instead of ranked choice. So many second places for Pathfinder
Strategic voting people!

If I understand it correctly, that ends up being almost how it works. It's not identical, but pretty close according to that video Godzilla Blitz posted. Feel free to correct me though! I'd actually be curious to see the results in done both formats.

quasiChaos wrote:
Shadout wrote:

We need points voting instead of ranked choice. So many second places for Pathfinder
Strategic voting people!

If I understand it correctly, that ends up being almost how it works. It's not identical, but pretty close according to that video Godzilla Blitz posted. Feel free to correct me though! I'd actually be curious to see the results in done both formats.

A couple years back, when I was looking at the various voting systems, it was fascinating to see that they all have drawbacks. None is perfect, but some are less bad than others. Ranked choice does hinge on the first-place votes, so it's possible (but unlikely) that everyone could pick a game as their second choice and it loses in the first round because it has no first place votes. At a glance, I noticed that Planescape: Torment has a lot of second-place support in this vote.

I'll post the spreadsheet when it's over, if someone wants to calculate a points-total (6 points for 1st, etc.) to see if it would have provided a different outcome, I'd be curious too.

As a "system for picking a game that a lot of us want to play," I'm pretty happy with the results we're getting. We were mainly trying to avoid a situation where a small group of people want to play one game that the majority really wasn't interested in, and by incorporating ranked preferences I think this system works to avoid those sorts of outcomes.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Dragon's Dogma
Torment: Tides of Numenera
Planescape Torment
Wasteland 2
The Banner Saga

And... voting is now closed. We'll pass the ballots on to the election committee. Once they finish eating dinner, they'll get busy.

I know that when I did a quick mental tally right after I voted, it was super close between three games. Like razor-thin margins.

Ranked Choice Voting - Results

Round 1
Voters
: 30

Wasteland 2 - 8
The Banner Saga - 7
Torment: Tides of Numenera - 6
Dragon's Dogma - 4
Pathfinder: Kingmaker - 3
Planescape Torment - 2

Total Votes: 30
Leader has Majority: No
Votes with no remaining preferences: 0

Notes
As usual, no game has a majority of the votes, so we head off to ranked choices to determine the winner. Tboon's last second vote gives Pathfinder: Kingmaker the edge over Planescape: Torment, so PT is our first game knocked out. We'll shift those voters second-place votes to the remaining five games and see what things look like.

Ranked Choice Voting - Results

Round 2

Wasteland 2 - 9
The Banner Saga - 8
Torment: Tides of Numenera - 6
Dragon's Dogma - 4
Pathfinder: Kingmaker - 3

Total Votes: 30
Leader has Majority: No
Votes with no remaining preferences: 0

Notes
Wasteland 2 and The Banner Saga pick up one each of Planescape: Torment's votes, and slide a bit away from the rest of the field. Neither game has close to a majority, so on to the next round we go. Next, Pathfinder: Kingmaker falls to the wayside. We'll redistribute those votes and take another look.

Round 3

Wasteland 2 - 10
The Banner Saga - 8
Torment: Tides of Numenera - 7
Dragon's Dogma - 5

Total Votes: 30
Leader has Majority: No
Votes with no remaining preferences: 0

Notes
Wasteland 2, Torment: Tides of Numenera, and Dragon's Dogma each pick up one vote from Pathfinder. Wasteland 2 is inching towards victory, but is still shy of a majority. The Banner Saga and Torment: Tides of Numenera could easily close that gap. Unfortunately, Dragon's Dogma is at the bottom of the pile now, so off the list it goes.

Ranked Choice Voting - Results

Round 4

Torment: Tides of Numenera - 10
Wasteland 2 - 10
The Banner Saga - 9

Total Votes: 30 (29)
Leader has Majority: No
Votes with no remaining preferences: 1

Notes
Tables turned! Torment: Tides of Numenera picks up 3 of Dogma's votes, The Banner Saga picks up 1, and 1 has no preferences left. That pulls Torment: ToN and Wasteland 2 into a tie and drops The Banner Saga out by 1 slim vote! One to the next round, which should be the final reckoning, unless we have a tie...

Ranked Choice Voting - Results

Round 5

Wasteland 2 - 15
Torment: Tides of Numenera - 13

Total Votes
: 30 (28)
Leader has Majority: Yes
Votes with no remaining preferences: 2

Notes
Wasteland 2 wins, as it gains 5 of The Banner Saga's votes! Once again, the margins are slim: If one voter had shifted their preference from Wasteland 2 to Torment: ToN, we would have had a tie. As an aside, Wasteland 2 appeared on 24 of the 30 votes, while Torment: Tides of Numenera appeared on 21. What a close vote, as always seems to be the case.

I'll get the thread started at some point this evening. Off we go!

Here's the full Game 11 Voting Spreadsheet

Woot, now I can go back to nominating Torchlight.

WizKid wrote:

Woot, now I can go back to nominating Torchlight.

I saw that Torchlight 3 is coming out at some point. That sometimes helps with support.

Maybe not so much this time, since it sounds like it is really bad

Wasteland 2 on the other hand, is fairly decent. Didn't like the combat at all, but the world was nice, and looking forward to 3.

Oh, well. Torment ToN had a good run. Wastelend 2 it is.

I’m always happy when the winner is already in the pile.

Hmmm. Not the winner I was hoping for! I'll give this some thought before I decide if I'm playing through again

Oof another long one. With my completionist tendencies it will be over 100 hours for sure. But no excuses; it’s been on my pile forever. Best get started.

New thread is up: Wasteland 2

brokenclavicle wrote:

Oh, well. Torment ToN had a good run. Wastelend 2 it is.

I have to think that one of the Torment games will have to win at some point. They are dancing around the top in so many votes, and have been ever so close to winning.

gewy wrote:

Oof another long one. With my completionist tendencies it will be over 100 hours for sure. But no excuses; it’s been on my pile forever. Best get started.

We do seem to pick the long ones.

Enjoy, everyone. I'll see y'all in 3 more months, unless I suddenly get the urge to go back to DoS2 again.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:
quasiChaos wrote:
Shadout wrote:

We need points voting instead of ranked choice. So many second places for Pathfinder
Strategic voting people!

If I understand it correctly, that ends up being almost how it works. It's not identical, but pretty close according to that video Godzilla Blitz posted. Feel free to correct me though! I'd actually be curious to see the results in done both formats.

...

I'll post the spreadsheet when it's over, if someone wants to calculate a points-total (6 points for 1st, etc.) to see if it would have provided a different outcome, I'd be curious too.

...

Using Godzilla Blitz's spreadsheet he graciously provided (to satisfy our weird curiosities...), I ran the results through a points ranking (i.e., positional voting) where with a vote having 6 entries, a person's first vote would get 6 points, second would be 5 points, etc.

The results for positions 1-3 came out identical, as I had expected, but Dragon's Dogma that was in 4th with Ranked Choice came out last, but still within 5 points of Pathfinder: Kingmaker & Planescape Torment—which, as GB pointed out, could have been a single vote.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/L9jV1Mg.png)

(Tune in next week for more "Fun with Spreadsheets!")

I ran the numbers through a "Pairwise Comparison" method (basically a round-robin) and got some results.

How to read table: each cell contains the number of ballots which strictly preferred the ROW game above the COLUMN game. Green highlight indicates a winner of the comparison, yellow a tie.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/cxerp0N.png)

Conclusions:

  • Wasteland 2 won all its comparisons, making it the legit overall winner!
  • Banner Saga and Torment: Numenera tied for second.
  • Dragon's Dogma was the loser in all comparisons. Sorry!
  • The significant number of ballots with incomplete rankings makes running these methods tricky and relies on some ad-hoc choices for how to "rank" unranked games. I treated unranked games as being 6th-choice.

I did this in Excel because I hate Google Sheets. If anyone wants the data send me a PM.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

Wasteland 2 - 8
The Banner Saga - 7
Torment: Tides of Numenera - 6
Dragon's Dogma - 4
Pathfinder: Kingmaker - 3
Planescape Torment - 2

I assigned the digits 1 to 6 to these in order based on Godzilla's round 1 post, and then applied getRandomNumber() to it. Dragon's Dogma won!

merphle wrote:
Godzilla Blitz wrote:

Wasteland 2 - 8
The Banner Saga - 7
Torment: Tides of Numenera - 6
Dragon's Dogma - 4
Pathfinder: Kingmaker - 3
Planescape Torment - 2

I assigned the digits 1 to 6 to these in order based on Godzilla's round 1 post, and then applied getRandomNumber() to it. Dragon's Dogma won!

That made me laugh... thank you.

I'm looking forward to my first playthrough of Wastland 2 over the next three months!

For anyone who hasn't purchased it yet and you have a GOG account, It was given away free in the 2019 winter sale, you may just have it in your GOG library if you claimed it (and maybe forgot!).

Cool to see the alternative voting counts, that's awesome! Glad to see that regardless of the system, Wasteland 2 seems to have had a majority of the interest. Well, except for in merphle's system, that is. But his system would certainly be more efficient, timewise, in picking a winner.

Neutrino wrote:

I'm looking forward to my first playthrough of Wastland 2 over the next three months!

For anyone who hasn't purchased it yet and you have a GOG account, It was given away free in the 2019 winter sale, you may just have it in your GOG library if you claimed it (and maybe forgot!).

Good to know on the GOG giveaway, thanks! Based on what you've posted here, I've added your name to the list in the Wasteland 2 thread.