Star Wars:The Last Jedi (SPOILERS!!!!)

And now for some fun details:

- As Luke is training Rey, Leia is also training Poe.
- Finn commenting on the TIEs going after the Falcon: “Yeah, they hate that ship.”
- Nitpick alert: Crait was covered with salt, not snow. So why did Kylo bring snow troopers with him?!
- BB8 imitating the sounds of a mouse droid when he was in disguise.
- The cruise ship on Canto Bight reminded me of Lando's ship The Lady Luck.
- The door to Luke's hut was a piece of his X-Wing.

kazar wrote:
PaladinTom wrote:

And Rey becomes a Jedi, but not the last Jedi.

While this is probably true, I thought Luke's point was that he was not the last Jedi, Rey was.

He specifically says “I will not be the last Jedi” just as they cut to Rey. I took that to imply “... and neither will she be the last Jedi.” Although she is now a Jedi, and currently the only Jedi, she will NOT be the last Jedi either. The Jedi will live on. It’s reinforced in the closing scene.

Quote is not edit.

Might seem odd but I was hoping Finn and Poe would have a romantic relationship. I know Finn showed interest in Rey but he could be bi. I thought I heard they would have a gay or bi character in this movie. I guess there could be a few but they definitely didn't show any gay relationships.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

Might seem odd but I was hoping Finn and Poe would have a romantic relationship. I know Finn showed interest in Rey but he could be bi. I thought I heard they would have a gay or bi character in this movie. I guess there could be a few but they definitely didn't show any gay relationships.

I could see that. I thought Rose's sister was her partner at first.

I really enjoyed it. As someone who saw Empires Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi when they originally came out in the movie theater, I felt the way they handled Luke was well done. It wasn't a silly drawn out, over the top fight like Yoda in prequels or Neo in the 3rd Matrix.

Maybe I'm just getting old and all but I see people say they enjoyed it, or it was decent and then go on to state all the reasons on what was wrong with it but not provide as many positives. To each their own, and I certainly respect people's opinions, but man at times it's kind of disappointing and concerning to see such a sway of negativity and so little of what is done right and positives. Kind of reminds me of my work place. Seldom what is good and positive but strong focus on what is wrong and how to improve it. Again, maybe it's just me

ccesarano wrote:
Hobear wrote:

Sounds like they had a ton of footage that was cut for phasma because too much was already going on. I see that. But I agree she was a cool character that was oversold and under delivered on screen time. I remember thinking she must be pretty key to he story as she was in everything I saw but then barely in the movie. I doubt she is dead...

If you check the interview with Rian Johnson he says that isn't the case, and there was never a greater role. He laments it, but with all the characters he was balancing he could not find a place to fit her into the greater narrative.

I can think of arguments both for and against his assertion.

Whoops looks like I misread his first sentence stating they didn't shoot much. Makes more sense now.

Hobear wrote:
ccesarano wrote:
Hobear wrote:

Sounds like they had a ton of footage that was cut for phasma because too much was already going on. I see that. But I agree she was a cool character that was oversold and under delivered on screen time. I remember thinking she must be pretty key to he story as she was in everything I saw but then barely in the movie. I doubt she is dead...

If you check the interview with Rian Johnson he says that isn't the case, and there was never a greater role. He laments it, but with all the characters he was balancing he could not find a place to fit her into the greater narrative.

I can think of arguments both for and against his assertion.

Whoops looks like I misread his first sentence stating they didn't shoot much. Makes more sense now. :-P

I hate Hux. They should’ve combined his character with Phasma. The bad ass leader of the military who also suits up and leads the troops herself.

PaladinTom wrote:
Hobear wrote:
ccesarano wrote:
Hobear wrote:

Sounds like they had a ton of footage that was cut for phasma because too much was already going on. I see that. But I agree she was a cool character that was oversold and under delivered on screen time. I remember thinking she must be pretty key to he story as she was in everything I saw but then barely in the movie. I doubt she is dead...

If you check the interview with Rian Johnson he says that isn't the case, and there was never a greater role. He laments it, but with all the characters he was balancing he could not find a place to fit her into the greater narrative.

I can think of arguments both for and against his assertion.

Whoops looks like I misread his first sentence stating they didn't shoot much. Makes more sense now. :-P

I hate Hux. They should’ve combined his character with Phasma. The bad ass leader of the military who also suits up and leads the troops herself.

Completely and utterly disagree. Particularly now, the role of "Stooge Moron Who Thinks He's The sh*t Because He Dresses Up in Granddad's Fascist Uniform and Promptly Gets Dunked on By All" is important, as is "Terrifyingly Dehumanized Agent of Dehumanization."

Especially because now that Daddy Snoke is gone, there's nobody to mediate the hatefest between Hux and Ren.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
PaladinTom wrote:
Hobear wrote:
ccesarano wrote:
Hobear wrote:

Sounds like they had a ton of footage that was cut for phasma because too much was already going on. I see that. But I agree she was a cool character that was oversold and under delivered on screen time. I remember thinking she must be pretty key to he story as she was in everything I saw but then barely in the movie. I doubt she is dead...

If you check the interview with Rian Johnson he says that isn't the case, and there was never a greater role. He laments it, but with all the characters he was balancing he could not find a place to fit her into the greater narrative.

I can think of arguments both for and against his assertion.

Whoops looks like I misread his first sentence stating they didn't shoot much. Makes more sense now. :-P

I hate Hux. They should’ve combined his character with Phasma. The bad ass leader of the military who also suits up and leads the troops herself.

Completely and utterly disagree. Particularly now, the role of "Stooge Moron Who Thinks He's The sh*t Because He Dresses Up in Granddad's Fascist Uniform and Promptly Gets Dunked on By All" is important, as is "Terrifyingly Dehumanized Agent of Dehumanization."

I agree at the separate rolls. I would like liked to see Phasma get a lot more screen time filling the role of terrifying enforcer that Vader played in the classic days, because Kylo certainly doesn't fill those shoes.

So what do we think of Finns character? He must have access to the Force, right? Otherwise there is no way that Phasma doesn’t destroy him within 5 seconds.

I really hope they do something with her character in the next film.

Docjoe wrote:

So what do we think of Finns character? He must have access to the Force, right? Otherwise there is no way that Phasma doesn’t destroy him within 5 seconds.

I really hope they do something with her character in the next film.

I think he's just gained enough levels as a player character since the last adventure to do well enough against her.

After all, blowing up a planet nets you a lot of XP.

ccesarano wrote:
Docjoe wrote:

So what do we think of Finns character? He must have access to the Force, right? Otherwise there is no way that Phasma doesn’t destroy him within 5 seconds.

I really hope they do something with her character in the next film.

I think he's just gained enough levels as a player character since the last adventure to do well enough against her.

After all, blowing up a planet nets you a lot of XP.

Hard to argue with that...

Docjoe wrote:

So what do we think of Finns character? He must have access to the Force, right? Otherwise there is no way that Phasma doesn’t destroy him within 5 seconds.

I really hope they do something with her character in the next film.

If you read some media from new canon, Finn was a VERY good soldier. He excelled at tactics, physical stuff, everything. He was actually being said up to be a poster board Stormtrooper. His big issue was he showed too much compassion in regards to other stormtroopers.

So, it definitely was more of a fair fight than you think.

Also, in my opinion, Luke he was thinking of Rey when he said "I'm not the last jedi"

karmajay wrote:
Docjoe wrote:

So what do we think of Finns character? He must have access to the Force, right? Otherwise there is no way that Phasma doesn’t destroy him within 5 seconds.

I really hope they do something with her character in the next film.

If you read some media from new canon, Finn was a VERY good soldier. He excelled at tactics, physical stuff, everything. He was actually being said up to be a poster board Stormtrooper. His big issue was he showed too much compassion in regards to other stormtroopers.

So, it definitely was more of a fair fight than you think.

Also, in my opinion, Luke he was thinking of Rey when he said "I'm not the last jedi"

Also, Phasma did pretty much destroy him in 5 seconds. If anything that's how he won. She dispatched him really easily, then turned her attention away.

Docjoe wrote:

I really hope they do something with her character in the next film.

I think she was fine as the potent symbol of Finn's fear of the First Order which drives him to continually flee, which he casts into a pit of fire at the same time he asserts his resolve to stop fleeing.

Still processing my thoughts.

My son liked it, according to him, 1% more than TFA. He liked the explosions. He somehow predicted most plot twists.

On the other hand, I was a little uncomfortable with the film; the editing style of abrupt scene changes, twists, misdirection, crass one-liners - they modernise Star Wars and make it relevant to millennials and the next generation of fans. It may speak more to my age and vintage than the film's qualities

I know some are torn over Rey's lineage but wasn't Anakin himself a nobody? My bigger complaint was that I interpreted Daisy's facial expressions as smiling too much (could be my reading of how she grimaced).

I really enjoyed Hamill's performance. He made the film for me. Also, PoE was played really well. IMO Finn and Rose didn't get enough dialogue on screen to build their chemistry. Could have used that casino time more efficiently methinks.

Will post more once I gather my thoughts. A lot was packed into the film so much so that I barely remember what I saw. Somewhere around the 6 to 7 out of 10 mark right now.

I thought it was an excellent 80 minute continuation of the Jedi saga intertwined with a messy, alternately by-the-numbers and weirdly tone-deaf story of the last weak rumblings of the old/new rebellion. All the Rey/Kylo/Luke stuff was fantastic but the Finn/Rose thread was prequel-level bad, while the greater Republic storyline just felt clumsy despite the worthy messages it was trying to convey (and the whole space Leia thing left me completely bemused). Loved the diversity of the wider cast, and the imagery was utterly arresting even when it didn't make sense.

I didn't understand why I kept hearing that TLJ was simultaneously the best and worst Star Wars movie but I totally get it now and feel the same way.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

Might seem odd but I was hoping Finn and Poe would have a romantic relationship. I know Finn showed interest in Rey but he could be bi. I thought I heard they would have a gay or bi character in this movie. I guess there could be a few but they definitely didn't show any gay relationships.

Flip a couple of pages back and you’ll find I completely agree with you. I’ve been championing the Finn-Poe pairing since TFA. That lip bite...
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Docjoe wrote:

So what do we think of Finns character? He must have access to the Force, right? Otherwise there is no way that Phasma doesn’t destroy him within 5 seconds.

I really hope they do something with her character in the next film.

I think one of the points Luke makes is that the Jedi are wrong to try to make people feel that the force is for the elitely trained... His realization was that EVERYONE has access to it, it's not limited to bloodlines or special circumstance or elite training and discipline, and the arrogance of thinking otherwise was part of the old-school Jedi downfall.

That aside, Finn did 'successfully' use a lightsaber (I guess I define successfully as not lopping off any extremities and generally winning the engagement), so maybe that also hints at a little force sensitivity.

Everyone does have some access to the force, but for the average person they don't have what it takes to tap into it beyond maybe some subconscious abilities such as some kind of deja vu.

Whether people like it or not, midichlorians are part of canon and they are a symbiotic organism that acts as in a sense as a telephone between the host and the force. If you only have a small number of them, then no matter how much you train or try to tap into the force, you will fail. Personally I don't mind the midichlorian angle as symbiotic relationships with microorganisms happen all the time. The bacteria in our intestines for example that help digest food. It provides a clear reason why some are strong with the force while others are not.

I don't want to derail just want to point out I hate midichlorians.

karmajay wrote:

I don't want to derail just want to point out I hate midichlorians.

I would loved a little line from Luke that the Jedi were even wrong about who is able to harness the force. Boom. Midichlorians retconned.

PaladinTom wrote:
karmajay wrote:

I don't want to derail just want to point out I hate midichlorians.

I would loved a little line from Luke that the Jedi were even wrong about who is able to harness the force. Boom. Midichlorians retconned.

Holy crap that would have made this movie a 11 out of 10 for me.

Star Wars The Last Jedi Luke Skywalker Deleted Scenes Breakdown

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One of the most head-scratching criticisms I’ve read about the movie regards its characterization of Luke.

Basically, that Luke Skywalker would never kill his nephew because Luke is too good and too heroic and that his “weakness detracts from his story.”

This is, to me, the biggest WTF view of Luke ever.

Luke - A New Hope - goes from wanting to join the Empire (fly at the Academy) to literally murdering a whole planet worth of Empire people in like, a day.

Luke - Empire Strikes Back - Single handedly kills AT-AT walkers (which begs the question why did he even get in a speeder in the first place) with a grappling hook, lightsaber, and grenade, leaves his Jedi Master even when he is explicitally told he isn’t ready to defeat Vader and will only makes things worse just to kill a few meaningless storm troopers and get his hand cut off.

Luke - RotJ - bamboozle murders Gammorrean guards, beats a giant monster to death, laser swords a bunch of henchmen, literally frustrates Yoda to death, creates awfully cruel speeder related deaths for speeder troopers, uses witchcraft to terrify Ewoks, abandons his unit to talk to his dad, would have totally killed an unarmed and defenseless Emperor, and then finally just leaves the Death Star.

So, what isn’t out of character for this hero?

Admittedly, this is a very specific argument I am making about Luke... but a person who does things like these, even for the right reasons, has to live with the consequences.

For me the friction with Luke's character doesn't come from anything in the original trilogy, but my mental image of Luke I have from Legacy EU. Broken Old Man Luke is perfectly in keeping with Luke from the movies and is a pretty realistic reaction to having utterly failed it your life's work. I find myself having to actively work to get to that view though because the Luke in my head is from the Legacy EU, and that is a man who suffers fall after tragedy after fall and never really breaks or loses hope.

I just have to remind myself that New Star Wars is simply trying to tell a more grounded and less heroic story than the Legacy EU i grew up with was trying to tell, and that's OK.

It is a bit funny seeing so many who (inaccurately) decried Rey as a "Mary Sue" demand Luke be exactly that.