Star Wars:The Last Jedi (SPOILERS!!!!)

I watched it again last night, and noticed something i hadn't up to that point: Rey has the Jedi books in her drawer the Falcon at the end of the movie, they didn't burn with the tree.

thrawn82 wrote:

I watched it again last night, and noticed something i hadn't up to that point: Rey has the Jedi books in her drawer the Falcon at the end of the movie, they didn't burn with the tree.

Anybody who can pull a fast one on Yoda and Luke must be powerful.

Hrdina wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

I watched it again last night, and noticed something i hadn't up to that point: Rey has the Jedi books in her drawer the Falcon at the end of the movie, they didn't burn with the tree.

Anybody who can pull a fast one on Yoda and Luke must be powerful.

Yoda has a line that I thought implied he knew. He also kept Luke from going in and noticing that they were gone.

billt721 wrote:
Hrdina wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

I watched it again last night, and noticed something i hadn't up to that point: Rey has the Jedi books in her drawer the Falcon at the end of the movie, they didn't burn with the tree.

Anybody who can pull a fast one on Yoda and Luke must be powerful.

Yoda has a line that I thought implied he knew. He also kept Luke from going in and noticing that they were gone.

OMG

Yoda: "...but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess..."

*Mind blown!* Yoda knew?

Tscott wrote:
billt721 wrote:
Hrdina wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

I watched it again last night, and noticed something i hadn't up to that point: Rey has the Jedi books in her drawer the Falcon at the end of the movie, they didn't burn with the tree.

Anybody who can pull a fast one on Yoda and Luke must be powerful.

Yoda has a line that I thought implied he knew. He also kept Luke from going in and noticing that they were gone.

OMG

Yoda: "...but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess..."

*Mind blown!* Yoda knew?

I have to admit that I had never considered that interpretation of Yoda's line. I'm still not sure I agree, but it is possible.

I agree that the line probably is meant to be taken literally. But the burning of the library was more a final lesson for Luke.

Hrdina wrote:
Tscott wrote:
billt721 wrote:
Hrdina wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

I watched it again last night, and noticed something i hadn't up to that point: Rey has the Jedi books in her drawer the Falcon at the end of the movie, they didn't burn with the tree.

Anybody who can pull a fast one on Yoda and Luke must be powerful.

Yoda has a line that I thought implied he knew. He also kept Luke from going in and noticing that they were gone.

OMG

Yoda: "...but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess..."

*Mind blown!* Yoda knew?

I have to admit that I had never considered that interpretation of Yoda's line. I'm still not sure I agree, but it is possible.

I interpretation is Yoda knew, and blew up the tree when Luke faltered to prevent him from going in and seeing that she'd taken them, and possibly going to get them back in the quest to snuff out the jedi order.

Also as a final lesson for Luke, but having a lesson serve two purposes seems very Yoda to me anyway.

The Last Jedi has nagged away at me over the last two months, but I hadn't been able to put my finger on the reason why until the release of the trailer for the Han Solo film.

The release of the trailer (which I have not watched) made me realise that I neither wanted nor needed to see Solo's backstory. Because I already know his backstory, because I created it for myself forty years ago (I posted earlier in this thread about the 'gaps' in the original trilogy being the best parts, because they allow fans to create story for themselves).

And then it occurred to me that I'd also seen all that I wanted or needed to see of the entire Star Wars universe. The original trilogy are MY (and my generations) Star Wars films. The prequels and the sequels (and the other films that will follow() belong to another generation entirely.

I think that, in providing such rich stories for Han, Luke and Leia in 7 and 8, Disney are/were giving us old farts a chance to see their arcs play out fully, to say goodbye to them, and - crucially - to step away from the franchise if we wish... at peace with ourselves.

I'm going to step way. I will still have the occasional vodka-fuelled Star Wars marathon weekend... But it will be to watch 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8 only. That's the Star Wars story that George Lucas and has successors began writing for me 40 years ago and I don't need any more than that.

I hope "the kids" love the Star Wars stories that are being written for them as much as I loved (and love) mine.

I think it is an extreme action but if you feel that way the only option is to step away. For me the issue I have is exactly opposite of yours. I have read so many books about Star Wars that the back stories are already defined for me. I have read the Han Solo Trilogy (and the Lando Calrissian trilogy), The Courtship of Princess Leia, The Corellian Trilogy and many more that deal with Han's backstory. It has all been fleshed out and are fond memories (even if some are fond bad memories). But with Episode VII, VIII and this new Solo movie, they are throwing it all away and taking away what I know is Han, Luke and Liea's back story. This is the hardest part.

But will I watch it. Definitely. Even though I lost something I cherish, at least it is being replaced with something new that I can still enjoy and create new fond memories.

I also already have the Han solo backstory in my mind, but that’s because of the age of 14 (the golden age to read sci-if) I read the original Han Solo trilogy of books which I thought was the BESTEST EVAH! I have not revisited those books since, so they remain in my memory Evergreen.

Honestly, the concept of "kids loving Star Wars as we loved it" is a silly effort to try and preserve your own childhood and legacy through future generations. You didn't love Buck Rogers or the original Flash Gordon like your parents and grandparents, you loved the product that was inspired by those pulps, WWII flicks and films like Hidden Fortress.

A lot of kids already have a Star Wars to call their own. It's just titled Guardians of the Galaxy instead. Or maybe it's not sci-fi at all. My niece talks obsessively about Five Nights at Freddy's and the lore of Undertale like I spoke about Final Fantasy with my friends.

The whole "it's for kids!" argument honestly makes me roll my eyes because it's disingenuine. These films are cynically driven by companies to exist for money, and the creators behind them are doing their best to make good stories and art with them. But all you can do is ask yourself "What's new, but still Star Wars". As a result you're going to have products that fail to live up to the originals not because of any nit-picking folks like me do about Canto Bite looking stupid or moments of humor feeling awkward and out of place, but because these stories simply aren't inspired like the first films were.

It's interesting to consider this after having had a long discussion on Metroid sequels and what that franchise should do, as I effectively just want Nintendo to make a Metroid game just for me, but they're constantly struggling to update it for modern trends. This effectively defines Final Fantasy as a franchise: a long-lasting legacy desperately trying to reinvent itself. Perhaps a lesson should be taken from Resident Evil. Trying to remain hip with the trends and "the younger kids" resulted in the cynical and expensive mess that is Resident Evil 6. That failure forced them to try Resident Evil 7, a much more sincere reinvention of the franchise comparable to Breath of the Wild.

And maybe we can learn something from Breath of the Wild. I love those old-fashioned Zelda games inspired by Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time, but Breath of the Wild certainly fits my niece's gaming foundations and habits than those older games. Perhaps what Star Wars needs is to chuck out all the old and do something new while capturing that same spirit, which The Last Jedi seems to be kicking off.

In that case, I'm curious to see what Rian Johnson does with the next trilogy, but a Han Solo movie? Episode 9? Meh. I just get no magic from it (not that I got an incredible amount from the original trilogy, just something more... sincere?).

One day Star Wars will die. The real question is: what's wrong with that?

Pablo Hidalgo wrote:

I often think about how lucky we all were that the best stuff came out when we were the most impressionable.

Well said. Stop honoring/genuflecting the past. Build something new!

IMAGE(https://i.imgflip.com/1xxhhm.jpg)

Tanglebones wrote:

IMAGE(https://i.imgflip.com/1xxhhm.jpg)

Said by the Villian. And ultimately in the story that quote is from, the day was won by image of the hero of the past.

Top_Shelf wrote:

Well said. Stop honoring/genuflecting the past. Build something new!

Alas, we as a species tend to iterate on a theme. The Hero's Journey has been told and retold for thousands of years. We reach into the past to understand the present and hopefully make a better future. Ignoring what came before you and not understanding how we got to the present leads to folly. Which leads to TLJ.

One day Star Wars will die. The real question is: what's wrong with that?

Why does it have to end? If it is something you longer want to watch, fine. Then stop watching. Plenty of people, old fans and new fans will continue to enjoy it. And those adults and kids will be able to share with future generations.

Wanting something to stop because it isn't like the thing you grew up with is the quintessential "I got mine" statement.

The Star Trek fan in me is like "Welcome to 1987, Star Wars."

karmajay wrote:
One day Star Wars will die. The real question is: what's wrong with that?

Why does it have to end? If it is something you longer want to watch, fine. Then stop watching. Plenty of people, old fans and new fans will continue to enjoy it. And those adults and kids will be able to share with future generations.

Wanting something to stop because it isn't like the thing you grew up with is the quintessential "I got mine" statement.

Are you sure that's what ccesarano wrote?

Rat Boy wrote:

The Star Trek fan in me is like "Welcome to 1987, Star Wars."

I was thinking the same thing but more 2009.

Gravey wrote:
karmajay wrote:
One day Star Wars will die. The real question is: what's wrong with that?

Why does it have to end? If it is something you longer want to watch, fine. Then stop watching. Plenty of people, old fans and new fans will continue to enjoy it. And those adults and kids will be able to share with future generations.

Wanting something to stop because it isn't like the thing you grew up with is the quintessential "I got mine" statement.

Are you sure that's what ccesarano wrote?

It is a bit all over the place but after re-reading it a couple times I do see where your question comes about and cede it as a good point.

ccesarano wrote:

SNIP
And maybe we can learn something from Breath of the Wild. I love those old-fashioned Zelda games inspired by Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time, but Breath of the Wild certainly fits my niece's gaming foundations and habits than those older games. Perhaps what Star Wars needs is to chuck out all the old and do something new while capturing that same spirit, which The Last Jedi seems to be kicking off.

In that case, I'm curious to see what Rian Johnson does with the next trilogy, but a Han Solo movie? Episode 9? Meh. I just get no magic from it (not that I got an incredible amount from the original trilogy, just something more... sincere?).

To make a games reference; DOOM is a game which vibes well with the original and feels exceedingly DooM-ey while being thoroughly updated and different (3 dimensional combat and arenas, melee system as health and ammo caches). The new SW films so far have been a rehash which at least had characters displaying excitement and wonder (which felt tonally correct), and a movie that didn't really feel like a SW flick (to me).

silentsod wrote:

To make a games reference; DOOM is a game which vibes well with the original and feels exceedingly DooM-ey while being thoroughly updated and different (3 dimensional combat and arenas, melee system as health and ammo caches). The new SW films so far have been a rehash which at least had characters displaying excitement and wonder (which felt tonally correct), and a movie that didn't really feel like a SW flick (to me).

Which one are you referring to. I have enjoyed both 7 and 8, but the movie that feels the most Star Wars to me was Rogue One. Perhaps because it was in a familiar setting, but i think mostly because what always resonated with me most in Star Wars is the parts most inspired by the older war flicks, in particular the ones about fighter planes.

I think what is Star Wars to each person is unique to them. Whether it's crotchety old gamers yelling about the-days-that-were from their porch chairs to the young kids with their Kylo masks and Rebels TV shows and Porg dolls, there isn't one thing that is quintessentially Star Wars.

And that's a good thing.

I'm certainly not saying that I want the franchise to end, because the Star Wars I regard as mine has ended (for me.) But I am realistic about future instalments being written with another audience in mind.

At 47, I'm probably about as young as one can be to have seen A New Hope in the cinema when it was first released. But many fans will be well into their 50s. When Disney greenlights future movies, the target audience isn't me and my generation; it's our children and grand-children. And they're still filled with child-like wonder. They're not worried about who Rey's parents are. Or whether Snoke is Darth Plagueis. Or any one of a thousand things that worry us old obsessives. I think that's why Rian Johnson was allowed - if not, expected - to draw such a thick black line under the Original Trilogy.

In doing so, they've issued an invitation to me to join an entirely new series of adventures. I'm just politely declining, while saying 'thank you' and wishing them well.

I'm 47. I think The Force Awakens was phenomenal, and, some extraneous scenes aside, TLJ was great, and it had some of the best bits ever in the series (the throne room fight and the visuals of the lightspeed jump in particular). The problem is that in lots of ways, for my generation, Star Wars isn't a movie or an intellectual property; it's basically a pop culture religion. It's utterly revered, and TLJ takes Perfect Hero Luke and makes him cranky and imperfect and throws new Force stuff out and just makes an entertaining movie out of it.

The original trilogy is really just a very basic hero's journey story with great visuals, memorable characters, and lots of really awful dialogue. It just hit at the perfect time for our generation, and I know I've spent 40 years with it. It's like that classic rock song everyone knows the words to at this point. The thing I like about TLJ is, to abuse the metaphor, it's a new tune.

How TLJ is being received now might seem surprising down the line.

thrawn82 wrote:

Which one are you referring to. I have enjoyed both 7 and 8, but the movie that feels the most Star Wars to me was Rogue One. Perhaps because it was in a familiar setting, but i think mostly because what always resonated with me most in Star Wars is the parts most inspired by the older war flicks, in particular the ones about fighter planes.

Rogue One nailed the atmosphere, especially the space combat scene at the end. They correctly utilized the Y-Wing ion torpedoes and blah blah nerdy nerdness. Though I still find the characterizations thin, repeat viewings have raised the movie in my eyes thanks to character body language. I actually went from "meh" on it to liking it a fair amount. The characters in it are effective, have bought into their mission and each other, and their sacrifices were meaningful. The grayer morality wasn't heavy handed and we see characters generally choose to pursue their cause dutifully (and even the shock value kill in the beginning can be considered a mercy as the informant would have been tortured out of his mind by the Imperials).

TFA was bright eyed and bushy tailed with excitement. I mean, it was great to see characters experience something like happy comradery instead of the usual dour faced flawed heroes we get in our entertainment most days. There was chemistry between a number of actors and characters and it's cutesy or humor moments generally landed. (They landed for me in the OT as well, and not in the PT and definitely not in TLJ).

SW as I've seen it, and read it in the dozen or so EU novels, was generally a not too heavy adventure affair with varying levels of execution. That's true even among things like the Clone Wars and Rebels animated series where individual episodes can be pretty spikey in terms of how well done they are.

TLJ was a let down for me in terms of what I was expecting because it tried to be serious and wasn't good at that (R1 took a more serious tone to it's adventure and pulled it off while also having humor that wasn't jarring so it's not like it can't be done in the universe). TLJ couldn't even manage tonality of a single scene let alone the entire movie (it went off the rails with the joke call and did not recover). The Resistance characters weren't heroes I was cheering for, there's no menace, only caricature, for the villains. Whatever spark there had been was snuffed out as the character pairings changed and what they replaced them with was not, to my eyes, a better fit for a SW big screen tale. I just realized this felt like a PT movie with how it played out. Some good ideas at the core and flat execution/a lot that could have been cleaned up to make a very solid or even good movie and instead was just kind of a hot mess. I find the PT highly mediocre and being in company with those movies is not good.

In reply to detroit20 and MilkmanDaniel I am about a decade and a half younger than you are so the only SW films I saw in theaters as a kid were the PT. I was already a SW fan and I think there is something timeless in those film's execution of universe, story, and characters. Yes, they were the right movies and the right time, but for decades new fans were and are still being made by those films and they are still seen as the standard to meet or beat. I would state that audiences don't really change because we are still human and being human means that if you build a really good version of the Hero's Journey then that story has a shot at being a lasting story for the world. Beowulf is still an effective story, Gilgamesh is still an effective story, the Odyssey is still an effective story, and the original SW is still an effective story. In twenty years time? Well, the PT is still not highly regarded and my hopes for the ST are dimmed. If the essence of the OT was the Hero's Journey, and the PT was a botched set up for the Hero's Journey (and a reversal of said journey) the ST is still trying to figure out what it is, I suppose which doesn't strike me as a great place to be two thirds of the way into it.

I'm really LTTP on TLJ because the wife and I couldn't manage to get to the theater to see it due to multiple illnesses in the household this winter (thankfully no flu). I've now seen TLJ three time, once in the theater and twice at home with a (vastly inferior looking, but not horrible) cam version. It's taken me three viewings to finally feel like I get TLJ and I like it a lot more now than I did after seeing it in the theater.

When I left the theater I mostly felt indifferent about a lot of TLJ and couldn't shake the feeling I watched an episode of Battlestar Galactica. Part of that was the poor explanation they never had about what The Resistance is and where the First Order came from. This is a failing of TFA and not TLJ, though even after reading up on material and re-watching everything I feel like The Resistance is too suddenly almost dead in these films because we're never really given

The focus of these movies are the characters, as well they should be. However, since we've moved on from the simply defined good vs. evil in the OT, this focus loses some of its impact. I don't ever feel like the Resistance is something worth caring much about, it's kind of just there. My main connection to it is my connection to Leia, etc., from the earlier films. That's not quite enough for me to care about the survival of the Resistance and the New Republic. After two films I still don't know who or what the New Republic is or was. To me, this is a huge failing of the films. I've had to go outside of the films to figure stuff out. If I need a wiki to connect with the basic history then that's bad storytelling. Maybe it's simply an issue I have with modern movie making.

That said, after doing some research and re-watching everything there's more info they've given than I initially thought. The problem is one off lines that tie into everything don't have much impact unless you have done your research and understand what all is going on outside the films. Perhaps the OT was the exact same way and I can't see it and perhaps I've complained the PT spent too much time world building. Maybe the issue here is me.

That's the exact conclusion I came to after seeing TLJ a third time. I had to get rid of a lot of assumptions, and I don't mean the things like Rey's parents being a Kenobi. That stuff is fun and whatnot, but I'm all for Star Wars movies moving away from The Skywalkers as the central focus. I'm happy they're moving on. I just wish they would move on in their own way, finally. So far we've had a quasi-remake of the OT in TFA and now we've had a film turn everything from the OT on its head in TLJ. Macho has a place, but it's not all guns blasting all the time. Crazy plans don't always work out. Etc.

The new trilogy is growing on me, certainly, and I'm genuinely excited for the next film. Hell, TLJ made me like TFA more. Hopefully the next film cements it all.

New The Last Jedi Deleted Scene

Phasma is such a wasted character in the films.