[Discussion] Mass Shootings - Yeah, we need a thread just for this...

This year is the deadliest year ever in terms of mass shootings. In a political climate of polarization, it becomes harder to suss out legitimate information from the misinformation propagated by those with political agendas. Complicating this more is the continual resistance of 2nd amendment advocates to allow for political talk surrounding these massacres. This will involve political discussion to see if there are ways we can all agree might be good ways to prevent mass shootings.

This discussion should involve the details of any current, or future mass shooting, and how they compare to past mass shootings. How are they the same? How are they different? Do gun laws have an impact? Does the race of the shooter affect how we treat them? What makes one a hate crime and one an act or terrorism? Are these shootings the price of freedom?

JLS wrote:
jdzappa wrote:
EverythingsTentative wrote:

The "Notice" that my son showed me on Snapchat ended in "Let's Go Brandon" so that gave me all the info I nedded.

To be clear, I'm not really buying into it. School officials and law enforcement though are on high alert, at least here in the greater Seattle area.

Some schools in the Twin Cities area closed. My district leadership investigated and determined there wasn't a valid-enough threat to close schools.

Same. It seems a number of people did keep their kids home today from middle and high school here.
Some dumb ass posted a video about shooting up a local school with his face visible. So I imagine that won't go well for him.

jdzappa wrote:

Not sure if other parents experienced this, but local schools are on alert due to the “kill your classmates for Christmas” TikTok challenge. I’m 99.999 percent sure that it’s sh*tlord trolling but still sucks that we are at this place in America.

I'd like to point out that despite the fact that the challenge may be obvious trolling, someone might fall for it and try it anyway. Even jokingly suggesting something like this without telling people it's a joke is incredibly dangerous in a society where we have to put warning labels on coffee telling people that it's hot. I know charges will probably never be filed for this, but they should be.

Atras wrote:

I know it's a lot of fun to pile on the hate for social media, but maybe we should be a tad more pissed about the f*cking stupid near-universal access to murder toys?

Also, this. It wouldn't be nearly as dangerous if kids hadn't proven time and time again that if they want a firearm, they can probably get one without too much trouble.

Keldar wrote:

in a society where we have to put warning labels on coffee telling people that it's hot.

C'mon man

Stengah wrote:
Keldar wrote:

in a society where we have to put warning labels on coffee telling people that it's hot.

C'mon man

We can't even sue gun manufacturers for making and marketing their murder toys.

Stengah wrote:
Keldar wrote:

in a society where we have to put warning labels on coffee telling people that it's hot.

C'mon man

I wasn't talking about the lawsuit, just about all the stupid glaringly obvious warning labels we have to put on everything. "This product contains peanuts" on a jar of peanuts. Sleeping pills with a warning that they "may cause drowsiness". We live in a society where apparently we have to completely spell things out for people. When you have people trolling "For this challenge go kill people" and you don't specifically say it's a joke, there's a pretty decent chance at least one person thinks it's a real thing.

So a neo-Nazi murdered five people in Denver yesterday. He also shot and wounded a cop before being shot and killed by them.

On multiple occasions the murderer commented on tweets from white supremacist boot-licker and facist suck up Andy Ngo using the alias Roman McClay as well as other alt-right sh*theads.

He also wrote and self-published books under this alias that Amazon reviews described as deeply racist and misogynistic. In one of them, the main character--named his real name--kills dozens of people.

The blue lives matter people are going to be all over this praising this cop for taking down that nazi any minute now. I mean if they support cops for killing people for passing fake bills and holding sandwiches surely they will support a cop for killing a nazi killing people.

OG_slinger wrote:

So a neo-Nazi murdered five people in Denver yesterday. He also shot and wounded a cop before being shot and killed by them.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

The blue lives matter people are going to be all over this praising this cop for taking down that nazi any minute now. I mean if they support cops for killing people for passing fake bills and holding sandwiches surely they will support a cop for killing a nazi killing people.

I mean, he shot a cop. The Blue Lives Matter people are all going to be behind a cop killing someone who shot a cop. Besides, anyone who shoots at one of America's fine police officers clearly isn't a real Nazi anyway, right?

No True Nazi

This guy had a rather successful niche writing career churning out neo-Nazi thrillers where one of his characters goes on a mass shooter rampage. He even had a 4.5 star rating on Goodreads before his page was taken down so it seems he had a cult following.

Too bad he wasn’t put on any watch list due to his extremely disturbing writing. Not that it would likely have mattered.

Something going on in Mall of America. My friend who is there is being detained for what the mall is describing as an active shooter.

Edit.

Guess it wasn’t a mass shooting.

Nine cops were shot in AZ. Two people were killed by the cops. I don't know if any cops were killed.

The cops were responding to domestic violence situation where a woman was reported being shot. After a hour standoff a man comes out with a baby that he puts on the doorstep. The police go in to get whoever is left inside and are met with a hail of bullets. Since they are in a doorway they are like ducks in a barrel. All the while the baby is still on the doorstep while bullets are flying over her.

Anyway the cops are able to takedown the shooter and the victim is caught in the crossfire.

Sandy Hook families settle for $73M with gun maker Remington

AP News wrote:

The families of nine victims of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting announced Tuesday they have agreed to a $73 million settlement of a lawsuit against the maker of the rifle used to kill 20 first graders and six educators in 2012.

The case was watched closely by gun control advocates, gun rights supporters and manufacturers, because of its potential to provide a roadmap for victims of other shootings to sue firearm makers.

The families and a survivor of the shooting sued Remington in 2015, saying the company should have never sold such a dangerous weapon to the public. They said their focus was on preventing future mass shootings by forcing gun companies to be more responsible with their products and how they market them.

...

Gun rights groups said the settlement will have little effect on rifle sales and gun makers, who continue to be shielded from liability in most cases under federal law. But some experts said it may prompt insurers to pressure gun makers into making some changes.

“We might expect to see increased pressure from insurance companies for gun manufacturers to avoid the kind of either design choices or marketing practices that gave rise to this litigation,” said Timothy D. Lytton, a law professor at Georgia State University.

The settlement is not the first between victims and a gun manufacturer. Families of eight victims of the Washington, D.C.-area snipers won a $2.5 million settlement in 2004, with $550,000 coming from Bushmaster Firearms Inc. and the rest from the gun dealer. But Lytton said the impact of the Sandy Hook settlement could be greater because it is so much higher.

The civil court case in Connecticut focused on how the firearm used by the Newtown shooter — a Bushmaster XM15-E2S rifle — was marketed, alleging it targeted younger, at-risk males in advertising and product placement in violent video games. In one of Remington’s ads, it features the rifle against a plain backdrop and the phrase: “Consider Your Man Card Reissued.”

As part of the settlement, Remington also agreed to allow the families to release numerous documents they obtained during the lawsuit including ones showing how it marketed the weapon, the families said. It’s not clear when those documents will be released.

Remington had argued there was no evidence to establish that its marketing had anything to do with the shooting.

And to balance out this good a man in Texas--which just had a permitless carry law go into effect back in September--shot and killed a 9-year-old girl after he was robbed at an ATM. He just started blasting away at the robber and then shot at a truck the girl was riding in because he erroneously thought the robber got in it.

And in Louisiana a group of kids got shot at so they fled to a gas station for safety only to have the elderly attendant think he was being attacked by the kids so he got out his gun, opened up, and shot one of them.

OG_slinger wrote:

Sandy Hook families settle for $73M with gun maker Remington

AP News wrote:

The families of nine victims of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting announced Tuesday they have agreed to a $73 million settlement of a lawsuit against the maker of the rifle used to kill 20 first graders and six educators in 2012.

The case was watched closely by gun control advocates, gun rights supporters and manufacturers, because of its potential to provide a roadmap for victims of other shootings to sue firearm makers.

The families and a survivor of the shooting sued Remington in 2015, saying the company should have never sold such a dangerous weapon to the public. They said their focus was on preventing future mass shootings by forcing gun companies to be more responsible with their products and how they market them.

...

Gun rights groups said the settlement will have little effect on rifle sales and gun makers, who continue to be shielded from liability in most cases under federal law. But some experts said it may prompt insurers to pressure gun makers into making some changes.

“We might expect to see increased pressure from insurance companies for gun manufacturers to avoid the kind of either design choices or marketing practices that gave rise to this litigation,” said Timothy D. Lytton, a law professor at Georgia State University.

The settlement is not the first between victims and a gun manufacturer. Families of eight victims of the Washington, D.C.-area snipers won a $2.5 million settlement in 2004, with $550,000 coming from Bushmaster Firearms Inc. and the rest from the gun dealer. But Lytton said the impact of the Sandy Hook settlement could be greater because it is so much higher.

The civil court case in Connecticut focused on how the firearm used by the Newtown shooter — a Bushmaster XM15-E2S rifle — was marketed, alleging it targeted younger, at-risk males in advertising and product placement in violent video games. In one of Remington’s ads, it features the rifle against a plain backdrop and the phrase: “Consider Your Man Card Reissued.”

As part of the settlement, Remington also agreed to allow the families to release numerous documents they obtained during the lawsuit including ones showing how it marketed the weapon, the families said. It’s not clear when those documents will be released.

Remington had argued there was no evidence to establish that its marketing had anything to do with the shooting.

And to balance out this good a man in Texas--which just had a permitless carry law go into effect back in September--shot and killed a 9-year-old girl after he was robbed at an ATM. He just started blasting away at the robber and then shot at a truck the girl was riding in because he erroneously thought the robber got in it.

And in Louisiana a group of kids got shot at so they fled to a gas station for safety only to have the elderly attendant think he was being attacked by the kids so he got out his gun, opened up, and shot one of them.

I was at Target last Saturday morning and some middle age dude had his side arm on his hip. 1130am. 40% of the store (packed) was kids. My confidence level in this dude checking his target backgrounds when drawing down on the always-imminent, never-seen Bad Guy With A Gun was very low.

4 shot, 1 killed, 2 suspects in custody in a shooting at a Justice for Amir Locke rally here in Portland.

ruhk wrote:

4 shot, 1 killed, 2 suspects in custody in a shooting at a Justice for Amir Locke rally here in Portland.

Turns out the "homeowner" the police wanted people to believe was just protecting his property from those dastardly protesters actually rented a nearby apartment and was "obsessed with guns and harbored a deep hatred for the Black Lives Matter movement and antifascists in the city."

His roomate told Oregon Public Radio that “He talked about wanting to go shoot commies and antifa all the friggin’ time."

Dude had an online history of violent rhetoric and was noted to be an extremist within the furry community. Unsurprisingly, he had praised the Proud Boys, Rittenhouse, and followed Andy Ngo. And of course the police recovered multiple long guns and other weapons from his apartment.

The other suspect was an actual good guy with a gun--a volunteer security guard who shot Smith and ended his deadly rampage.

OG_slinger wrote:

The other suspect was an actual good guy with a gun--a volunteer security guard who shot Smith and ended his deadly rampage.

A good guy that Andy Ngo & a bunch of other nazi-lite sh*theads have been trying to pin the blame on and dox all week.

5 dead and unknown amount injured at a Sacramento church. Three of the dead are children. Looks like a domestic violence situation. Dad murdered the family during his supervised visit.
I wonder why they felt he needed to be supervised.

Interesting that California has a red flag law, but it requires the victim to actively seek a gun violence restraining order to confiscate firearms rather than just rightly assume that anyone who has an active restraining order against them shouldn't have access to bang-bangs.

God is the new gun, Gun is the new God.
6 dead and 12 injured in Sacramento, California. This was just blocks from the capitol building. No suspects have been arrested yet. Shooting happen at 2 am Sunday. Mass shootings aren't news worthy any more. I didn't hear anything about this.

On the plus side the dude that has been killing homeless people has been caught.

Multiple people shot this morning at Brooklyn subway stations.
Not much here yet

article wrote:

SUNSET PARK, Brooklyn (WABC) -- Six people have apparently been shot and wounded in separate subway station shootings in Brooklyn.

Several appear to have been shot in the 36th Street subway station in Sunset Park, and at least one other person at the 25th Street station in Greenwood Heights.

Police are checking out several suspicious devices while they search for a suspect, possibly wearing a gas mask and a construction vest, on a subway train.

News is all aflutter because they apprehended the suspect.

I am happy that he can't hurt anyone else but I feel like the full on media blitz about these things is just stupid. Yes it is horrific. Yes I feel horrible for those involved but there are huge f*cking issues (climate change, income inequality, etc.) we need to be addressing and this is just a side show distraction. It is a like when you wiggle a stuffed animal in front of a baby to distract it.

To me - crazy people will do crazy things but society as a whole is making some terrible choices about big issues and really that should be the 24 hour news cycle.

farley3k wrote:

Yes I feel horrible for those involved but there are huge f*cking issues (climate change, income inequality, etc.) we need to be addressing and this is just a side show distraction. It is a like when you wiggle a stuffed animal in front of a baby to distract it.

To me - crazy people will do crazy things but society as a whole is making some terrible choices about big issues and really that should be the 24 hour news cycle.

To be fair, American society as a whole has also been making some terrible choices about gun control, too (or lack thereof), which we really should have done something about back when Columbine happened, let alone Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, or Stoneman Douglas, and that's just the school shootings.

I wouldn't mind gun violence being the 24-hour news cycle if it got us to actually do something about it instead of just sending thoughts and prayers while grasping our copies of the 2nd amendment to our chests and screaming that it wasn't our fault, it's just those other guys who are the problem.

But it won't.

But that's okay. Because whenever climate change, income inequality, etc. do become the 24-hour news cycle for a while (Occupy Wall Street!), it doesn't get us to actually do anything about those, either.

farley3k wrote:

News is all aflutter because they apprehended the suspect.

I am happy that he can't hurt anyone else but I feel like the full on media blitz about these things is just stupid. Yes it is horrific. Yes I feel horrible for those involved but there are huge f*cking issues (climate change, income inequality, etc.) we need to be addressing and this is just a side show distraction. It is a like when you wiggle a stuffed animal in front of a baby to distract it.

To me - crazy people will do crazy things but society as a whole is making some terrible choices about big issues and really that should be the 24 hour news cycle.

If it makes you feel any better, we have essentially passed the point of no return on reaching our climate goals. Let's party like it's the end of the world!

EverythingsTentative wrote:
farley3k wrote:

News is all aflutter because they apprehended the suspect.

I am happy that he can't hurt anyone else but I feel like the full on media blitz about these things is just stupid. Yes it is horrific. Yes I feel horrible for those involved but there are huge f*cking issues (climate change, income inequality, etc.) we need to be addressing and this is just a side show distraction. It is a like when you wiggle a stuffed animal in front of a baby to distract it.

To me - crazy people will do crazy things but society as a whole is making some terrible choices about big issues and really that should be the 24 hour news cycle.

If it makes you feel any better, we have essentially passed the point of no return on reaching our climate goals. Let's party like it's the end of the world!

Don't Look Up!

Mass shooting at a grocery store in Buffalo, New York today. Early scuttlebutt appears to be that the suspect released a manifesto self-identifying as "white supremicist," "racist," and an "anti-Semite". Allegedly went to kill black people explicitly.

And he streamed the massacre on Twitch.

Fantastic.

More here.

Robert Evans does the investigating so you don't have to.

Wow and taken in alive.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

Wow and taken in alive.

Well, white, so yeah...