[Discussion] Mass Shootings - Yeah, we need a thread just for this...

This year is the deadliest year ever in terms of mass shootings. In a political climate of polarization, it becomes harder to suss out legitimate information from the misinformation propagated by those with political agendas. Complicating this more is the continual resistance of 2nd amendment advocates to allow for political talk surrounding these massacres. This will involve political discussion to see if there are ways we can all agree might be good ways to prevent mass shootings.

This discussion should involve the details of any current, or future mass shooting, and how they compare to past mass shootings. How are they the same? How are they different? Do gun laws have an impact? Does the race of the shooter affect how we treat them? What makes one a hate crime and one an act or terrorism? Are these shootings the price of freedom?

Strewth wrote:

Do officers carry their weapons even when they’re off duty? My naive assumption would be no, but I’m a sheltered Canadian.

A few months back a friggin' off-duty FBI agent shot another person at a nightclub. His gun fell out of his pants as he was doing a backflip and it discharged when he picked it up.

Back in the day when I worked at Abercrombie & Fitch in San Francisco, an off duty cop left his pistol in one of the big leather chairs in the waiting area near the registers. My co-worker found it as we sat down to wait for our shift to start (we worked overnight, after the place closed, so the gun was basically poking out of the seat the whole day). Dude came back the next day quietly asking for it back.

OG_slinger wrote:
Strewth wrote:

Do officers carry their weapons even when they’re off duty? My naive assumption would be no, but I’m a sheltered Canadian.

A few months back a friggin' off-duty FBI agent shot another person at a nightclub. His gun fell out of his pants as he was doing a backflip and it discharged when he picked it up.

If only good guys with guns were there to shoot that FBI agent when they went for their gun... that senseless tragedy could have been averted

There were people who survived the shooting who also survived the Las Vegas gun massacre. What a country, where you can literally be subjected to 2 mass shootings in 1 year.

Strewth wrote:

Do officers carry their weapons even when they’re off duty? My naive assumption would be no, but I’m a sheltered Canadian.

A couple of sheriffs I know have told me they're required to conceal carry even when off duty. I imagine that rule can vary from department to department.

Kehama wrote:
Strewth wrote:

Do officers carry their weapons even when they’re off duty? My naive assumption would be no, but I’m a sheltered Canadian.

A couple of sheriffs I know have told me they're required to conceal carry even when off duty. I imagine that rule can vary from department to department.

What is the reason for that?

NathanialG wrote:
Kehama wrote:
Strewth wrote:

Do officers carry their weapons even when they’re off duty? My naive assumption would be no, but I’m a sheltered Canadian.

A couple of sheriffs I know have told me they're required to conceal carry even when off duty. I imagine that rule can vary from department to department.

What is the reason for that?

Shooting bad guys, duh.

I'd imagine for situations where they're needed to become on-duty immediately and not have time to go home and get their gun first.

Many law enforcement officers are considered an officer 24/7 and expected to act if they see a crime being committed. Hence they tend to carry even if not strictly required to do so .

Kehama wrote:
Strewth wrote:

A couple of sheriffs I know have told me they're required to conceal carry even when off duty. I imagine that rule can vary from department to department.

What is the reason for that?

The reason these guys gave me is that "We're always targets because we're law enforcement so we need it for protection." Of course one of these guys also once told me if you're not racist when you go into law enforcement, you will be when you get out because you "see what animals they are". So yeah, take alllll of that which massive grains of salt. Since both guys I knew gave the same reason for why they carried when off duty I have to think it was probably just a shared rule of thumb among those officers rather than anything written which is why I figured it was likely department to department.

Kehama wrote:
Kehama wrote:
Strewth wrote:

A couple of sheriffs I know have told me they're required to conceal carry even when off duty. I imagine that rule can vary from department to department.

What is the reason for that?

The reason these guys gave me is that "We're always targets because we're law enforcement so we need it for protection." Of course one of these guys also once told me if you're not racist when you go into law enforcement, you will be when you get out because you "see what animals they are". So yeah, take alllll of that which massive grains of salt. Since both guys I knew gave the same reason for why they carried when off duty I have to think it was probably just a shared rule of thumb among those officers rather than anything written which is why I figured it was likely department to department.

There is some truth to the phenomenon of organizational indoctrination. If the force itself is racist, that is going to sink in, and you either assimilate the organizational ethic, or you are forced out. So while his reason is off, also a result of the indoctrination, he's not wrong about the result.

Kehama wrote:

Of course one of these guys also once told me if you're not racist when you go into law enforcement, you will be when you get out because you "see what animals they are".

So they just admitted to being racist?

WizKid wrote:
Kehama wrote:

Of course one of these guys also once told me if you're not racist when you go into law enforcement, you will be when you get out because you "see what animals they are".

So they just admitted to being racist?

You seem surprised. You haven't had a conversation like that? I don't remember where Kehama's from, but in some parts of the country, an admission of racism like that isn't something people are ashamed of.

My wife and I both grew up in Colorado, but our families are from Texas and Georgia, respectively, and it's remarkable the kind of casual racism that pervades both of our families. Growing up, all the jokes my cousins and I swapped were racist jokes, and my uncles were happy to teach us new ones. My wife's grandmother has openly pined for the fjords of segregation when "everyone was happier" because "everyone knew their place".

To my family, and to hers, "racism" meant saying the n-word or being a Nazi. Thinking that people of color were inferior, were "animals", were worthy of derision and disrespect... those were fairly normal ideas. You maybe wouldn't talk about them at a church function, but with family and friends? Fire away. (And for what it's worth, we have multiple family members who don't understand why they can't say the n-word just because they're white. I had one family member who flirted with Nazism, and the main objection to that never seemed to be that it was racist or anti-Semitic but that the Nazis were our enemy.)

Maybe my family is just exceptionally super racist, but I don't think they are. They certainly never seemed different from their peers back home. I'm not surprised that someone would think that saying their job had made them racist wasn't some shocking confession.

My experience in the south is similar.
My husband grew up in CA and when we moved out here he was shocked when a coworker told him he missed when the State Fair was segregated. Husband worked for a state agency at the time.

Same in Kentucky growing up

Pennsylvania too.

Long Island NY as well.

Who was black.

Friends said Roberson was an upstanding guy who was also a musician, playing keyboard and drums at several Chicago-area churches, who had plans to become a police officer.

This quote has a bit too much honesty in it:

"Everybody was screaming out, 'Security!' He was a security guard," Harris said. "And they still did their job, and saw a black man with a gun, and basically killed him."
A spokeswoman for the Cook County Sheriff's Office said Roberson had a valid FOID card, but did not have a concealed-carry license.

Given the SOP of "smear or attempt to smear victims of LEO-shootings in any way possible" I'm going to assume that they threw out this nugget knowing that as a security guard he wasn't CONCEALED-carrying anyways so that didn't f*cking matter. I imagine that tomorrow we'll hear about his unpaid library fines.

I'm sure that made all the difference. If he could've just whipped out his concealed carry permit when the police rolled up they wouldn't have shot him. I bet they'll find some pot in his home or something too. Gotta' stick by that narrative that if a police officer shoots you then you were a bad guy and had it coming even if the officer didn't know it at the time. Divine justice!

Doctors post blood-soaked photos after NRA tells them to pipe down over gun restrictions. Obviously a graphic content warning and some snippets of horribly tragic stories on that link.

Stele wrote:

Same in Kentucky growing up

Player Hater wrote:

Pennsylvania too.

Zona wrote:

Long Island NY as well.

Also Ohio. My family is fond of saying something like “When I say ‘[n-word]’ I don’t necessarily mean ‘black person’. If you look it up in the dictionary, it just means ‘[disingenuously innocuous definition]’. I say it about white people too.”

They then proceed to never use it to refer to anyone not black.

muraii wrote:
Stele wrote:

Same in Kentucky growing up

Player Hater wrote:

Pennsylvania too.

Zona wrote:

Long Island NY as well.

Also Ohio. My family is fond of saying something like “When I say ‘[n-word]’ I don’t necessarily mean ‘black person’. If you look it up in the dictionary, it just means ‘[disingenuously innocuous definition]’. I say it about white people too.”

They then proceed to never use it to refer to anyone not black.

When I had to explain to my employees that the N-word was not acceptable, even though I'm not black and they were not using it in front of a black person, one precious high school girl told me they weren't talking about the good ones that live in the suburbs, but those vile ones in the city.

My daughter was going to school in the St. Louis City schools, and her graduating class was about 50% black. I asked her if she was talking about my daughter's friends? Or was she talking about her teachers and principal? Then I was bad, because it made her cry.

I really get sick of the whites that pretend they don't know any racist people, because racists are stupid and out themselves to other whites all the time.

because racists are stupid and out themselves to other whites all the time.

I get this all the time.
I have that "gift" where random strangers feel like they can come up to me and confide in me the strangest things. It mostly doesn't bother me unless it is racist which is about 1/5 of all the conversations I get into.

Jayhawker wrote:

I really get sick of the whites that pretend they don't know any racist people, because racists are stupid and out themselves to other whites all the time.

I hate. Hate hate hate being taken for a racist ally. Yes I know I'm a hazel eyed scot-irish descended white dude, that does not mean i don't find your racist BS disgusting. I particularly resent it when it happens with a colleague where I have to be civil about my disagreement, or worse a superior where i have to be noncommittal and extract myself from the conversation as soon as possible instead of giving it the curse laden response it deserves.

Multiple people have been shot at a Chicago hospital. The situation is still going on. At least one of the victims is a police officer.

So sick of this...

Since it's in Chicago, the pro-gun people (from random internet message board commenters to radio and TV personalities and maybe all the way up to Trump himself) will just blame this on liberal politicians who apparently are responsible for turning the city into a violent, crime-infested, urban hellhole.