[Discussion] Mass Shootings - Yeah, we need a thread just for this...

This year is the deadliest year ever in terms of mass shootings. In a political climate of polarization, it becomes harder to suss out legitimate information from the misinformation propagated by those with political agendas. Complicating this more is the continual resistance of 2nd amendment advocates to allow for political talk surrounding these massacres. This will involve political discussion to see if there are ways we can all agree might be good ways to prevent mass shootings.

This discussion should involve the details of any current, or future mass shooting, and how they compare to past mass shootings. How are they the same? How are they different? Do gun laws have an impact? Does the race of the shooter affect how we treat them? What makes one a hate crime and one an act or terrorism? Are these shootings the price of freedom?

The Hill: Outdoor retailers stop selling major outdoor brands over parent company's NRA ties

Two major outdoor retailers are cutting ties with a large outdoor sporting goods company over its connections to the National Rifle Association (NRA) and its production of assault-style weapons following last month’s school shooting in Florida.

In a statement posted to its website Thursday, REI, a large outdoor recreation co-op, announced it would place a hold on orders from Vista Outdoor following last month’s shooting.

Up here in Canada, two retailers have done the same.

Mountain Equipment Coop

"It has recently come to light that several brands MEC sells are owned by a corporation that has holdings in the manufacture of assault-style weapons," CEO David Labistour said in a release Thursday morning. "Thousands of MEC members have contacted us to express their concerns and to ask that we stop selling products made by these brands."

After days of consultation, MEC decided to stop selling brand names owned by Vista once its current inventory is gone.

"Existing inventory will remain on our shelves until it has sold through," the Canadian company said in a statement.

Running Room

The Canadian chain Running Room has joined Mountain Equipment Co-op in a decision to drop outdoor gear brands owned by Vista Outdoor Inc.

Vista also manufactures and sells guns and ammunition, including rifles under brand names such as Savage Arms.

Savage Arms in particular makes rapid-fire semi-automatic rifles with high-capacity magazines, which are functionally similar to the weapon used in last month's attack on a school in Florida.

[...]

Running Room founder and president John Stanton said his stores have carried CamelBak products like water bottles and backpacks for the past 15 years, but will heed a recent surge of customer feedback urging them to drop the brand.

"There's been an overwhelming response in a positive way that we're doing the right thing," he said.

Stanton said his company won't remove CamelBak products from the shelves of the company's 120 stores across Canada, along with two in the U.S.

Instead, it will simply let CamelBak stock run dry.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/17Ns7sl.png)

I don't know if someone here has already verbalized this, but as a response to the attack of "politicizing the tragedy", we now basically have proof that we're not doing that. We're looking for solutions, and you can tell that because this time the victims were leading that charge. And yes, they were doing it right away, I'm sure before all the bodies were buried. They weren't doing that to be disrespectful to their love ones, they were doing that because NOT working to solve these problems is the true disrespect.

Nope, that's already covered. Now every kid protesting or going on tv or whatever is an astroturf attempt by the DNC or Soros or whatever.

lunchbox12682 wrote:

Nope, that's already covered. Now every kid protesting or going on tv or whatever is an astroturf attempt by the DNC or Soros or whatever.

according the right wing machine, they aren't even victims, they are paid actors and maybe there wasn't even a shooting at all.

thrawn82 wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:

Nope, that's already covered. Now every kid protesting or going on tv or whatever is an astroturf attempt by the DNC or Soros or whatever.

according the right wing machine, they aren't even victims, they are paid actors and maybe there wasn't even a shooting at all.

No joke, I had to listen to this all day Friday from my coworkers. They were talking about how a local high school was put on lockdown because someone called in a threat (specifically someone found a gun case in a car in the school parking lot). The immediate response was "This is just the Democrats doing this to keep the conversation going."

He then modified his statement almost immediately. "No, wait. I just mean Leftists. Whatever. The people who want to take the guns."

Which immediately turned to a conversation between three dudes to include the "back in my day...", "parents are too soft...", "kids don't care..." type comments. It was really great.

WP: Inside an accused school shooter’s mind: A plot to kill ‘50 or 60. If I get lucky maybe 150.’

Six days before he allegedly opened fire on an elementary school playground, the eighth-grader returned to his Instagram group chat to fixate, yet again, on his most intense interests: guns and bombs and the mass murder of children.

“My plan,” wrote Jesse Osborne, who had turned 14 three weeks earlier, “is shooting my dad getting his keys getting in his truck, driving to the elementary school 4 mins away, once there gear up, shoot out the bottom school class room windows, enter the building, shoot the first class which will be the 2d grade, grab teachers keys so I don’t have to hasle to get through any doors.”

He had been researching other school shooters for months and, determined to outdo them, learned exactly how many people they’d murdered: 13 at Columbine High; 26 at Sandy Hook Elementary; 32 at Virginia Tech.

“I think ill probably most likely kill around 50 or 60,” Jesse declared. “If I get lucky maybe 150.”

On Valentine’s Day, at the same time police say another angry teen, Nikolas Cruz, slaughtered 17 people at a Parkland, Fla., high school with a semiautomatic AR-15, Jesse was sitting in a South Carolina courtroom, waiting to find out whether he would be tried as an adult for a 2016 rampage that left his father and a 6-year-old dead.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/201...

I was actually rather surprised by how reasonable gun restrictions are in Canada. There are two guns in my collection that would need to go, but, surprisingly, the AR15 and the HK would be fine with Canadian law.

The safe storage and transport requirements are particularly reasonable.

Perhaps this is a model for us.

Huffman High School shooting: Courtlin Arrington killed; Birmingham police question injured teen

A Huffman High School senior was killed and another injured when gunfire erupted inside a classroom at the east Birmingham school Wednesday afternoon.

Killed was a 17-year-old girl who was going to graduate in May, had already been accepted into college and had dreams to become a nurse. "We're not just talking about some person, we're talking about losing a part of our future,'' said Birmingham Mayor Randall Woodfin. "Our hearts are heavy."

I was a few miles away from that school when the shooting happened and heard the police responding. Most of the people I know didn't even blink at the news of the shooting and haven't been using it as an example of the horrors of school violence because most of the students are black and it's in a declining part of town. At least that's the only reason I can think people aren't more upset. Unless we've just gotten to the point where 1 person being killed in a school is nothing and unless you get into double digits it's not a "tragedy". Most of the responses I've heard have been along the lines of "Yeah, there are shootings in that part of town all the time. It's bad, but how is this different?". Now if the shooting had taken place in a rich, mostly white part of town I doubt the people I know would ever stop talking about it for the next few years.

Kehama wrote:

I was a few miles away from that school when the shooting happened and heard the police responding. Most of the people I know didn't even blink at the news of the shooting and haven't been using it as an example of the horrors of school violence because most of the students are black and it's in a declining part of town. At least that's the only reason I can think people aren't more upset. Unless we've just gotten to the point where 1 person being killed in a school is nothing and unless you get into double digits it's not a "tragedy". Most of the responses I've heard have been along the lines of "Yeah, there are shootings in that part of town all the time. It's bad, but how is this different?". Now if the shooting had taken place in a rich, mostly white part of town I doubt the people I know would ever stop talking about it for the next few years.

For what it's worth, a 14 year old student was shot and killed by a classmate in the middle school hallway up here in Madison, AL several years ago. Just walked up and shot him in the head. My nieces and nephews were in the building at the time. My recollection is nobody was talking about it within a few months if not weeks.

So yeah, one death by gun violence is not enough of a tragedy to even register at this point.

I am quite sure that the "shootings in that part of town" aspect is also a huge factor in people letting themselves ignore the problem though.

@Emma4Change (one of the Florida students who now has about twice as many followers on twitter than the NRA) tweeted about this video:

Thought it was a pretty good analogy.

Why is his apple pie blue?

bnpederson wrote:

Why is his apple pie blue?

It's apple and raspberry?

Spoiler:

and America is weird about it's color-flavor correlation? Raspeberries are red, y'all. Even yellow or purple if you want to get fancy about it. But not blue.

bnpederson wrote:

Why is his apple pie blue?

Apple blueberry? mmmm blueberry pie....

Jonman wrote:
Spoiler:

and America is weird about it's color-flavor correlation? Raspeberries are red, y'all. Even yellow or purple if you want to get fancy about it. But not blue.

It's probably because cherries are red, grapes are purple, yellow is lemon, so raspberries have to be something else to clearly distinguish things like Flavor Ice Pops.

I'm guessing you can't get away with "windscreen cleaning fluid" as a flavor description?

cheeze_pavilion wrote:
Jonman wrote:
Spoiler:

and America is weird about it's color-flavor correlation? Raspeberries are red, y'all. Even yellow or purple if you want to get fancy about it. But not blue.

It's probably because cherries are red, grapes are purple, yellow is lemon, so raspberries have to be something else to clearly distinguish things like Flavor Ice Pops.

I'm guessing you can't get away with "windscreen cleaning fluid" as a flavor description?

I'll have you know windscreen cleaning fluid doesn't taste anything like raspberries. You don't make that mistake more than 2 or 3 times.

cheeze_pavilion wrote:

It's probably because cherries are red, grapes are purple, yellow is lemon, so raspberries have to be something else to clearly distinguish things like Flavor Ice Pops.

Cherries are red, cherry flavored things are red.
Strawberries are red, strawberry flavored things are red.
Raspberries are red, raspberry flavored things are red.

This is how the rest of the world does it. If clearly distinguishing flavors is your argument, cherry and strawberry say hi.

Ugh i hate this pattern though. As someone who has a violent dislike of artificial cherry flavor, there is nothing worse than popping a candy in your mouth expecting strawberry or watermelon, and getting stomach turning cough syrup flavor instead.

Jonman wrote:
cheeze_pavilion wrote:

It's probably because cherries are red, grapes are purple, yellow is lemon, so raspberries have to be something else to clearly distinguish things like Flavor Ice Pops.

Cherries are red, cherry flavored things are red.
Strawberries are red, strawberry flavored things are red.
Raspberries are red, raspberry flavored things are red.

This is how the rest of the world does it. If clearly distinguishing flavors is your argument, cherry and strawberry say hi.

Usually it's either cherry or strawberry, not both. Or cherry and strawberry get lumped together as 'Fruit Punch'.

...and all of those flavors should have the '_' around them. It's not so much about clearly distinguishing flavors as much as it is making the flavors taste different using color as a cue. I really wouldn't call 'Blue Raspberry' the flavor of raspberry as much as the flavor of edible fruity windscreen washing fluid.

Is there a worse version of artificial flavoring than banana, though? I hope someone got fired over that.

Jayhawker wrote:

Is there a worse version of artificial flavoring than banana, though? I hope someone got fired over that.

Maybe apocryphal, but that's supposed to be based on the Gros Michel banana rather than the Cavendish banana.

I don't know how accurate it is, but I've read that artificial banana flavoring is actually a relatively accurate imitation of that first variant of banana that was really popular in the West that is nearly extinct now.

Edit: Curses.

Uh, sorry. I didn't mean to derail this thread by posting a video that was apparently all about blue pies. I thought the video was about cats

Spoiler:

and guns.

I'll try to be more careful in the future.

bnpederson wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

Is there a worse version of artificial flavoring than banana, though? I hope someone got fired over that.

Maybe apocryphal, but that's supposed to be based on the Gros Michel banana rather than the Cavendish banana.

I'd heard that as well. It came up in the Gastropod podcast episode about artificial flavors. Apparently the same thing is true of artificial grape flavor- it tastes more like the Concord grape than the standard supermarket grapes today.

But on the topic: White House insists Trump has not 'chickened out' on NRA (warning, autoplaying video of SHS). Yeah, he hasn't chickened out. He just, after meeting with them, abandoned his plan to do something they don't like in favor of things they do like. Totally different.

Blackberries and black raspberries are a bit blue-ish. Blueberries are actual blue.

And fake apple pie flavor is the worst; it just tastes like cinnamon and sugar and plastic.

Tscott wrote:

Uh, sorry. I didn't mean to derail this thread by posting a video that was apparently all about blue pies. I thought the video was about cats

Spoiler:

and guns.

I'll try to be more careful in the future.

I mean, talking about pie makes me a lot happier than talking about murdered children.

Miami Herald: Judge orders release of Parkland school shooting videos

NPR: Months Before Fla. School Shooting, N.M. Deaths Got Little Notice

The March for Our Lives is scheduled for March 24th.

Gremlin wrote:

The March for Our Lives is scheduled for March 24th.

I'm going to be there. What's the most effective sign to carry. I figure given that this is organized and led by the kids the following signs won't be helpful.

"f*ck the NRA"
"Collect all guns and melt them down"

DSGamer wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

The March for Our Lives is scheduled for March 24th.

I'm going to be there. What's the most effective sign to carry. I figure given that this is organized and led by the kids the following signs won't be helpful.

"f*ck the NRA"
"Collect all guns and melt them down"

I'll be there too.